Why Acura Isn't Keeping Up
03-01-04, 06:06 AM
#16
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Originally posted by Bean
i'm pretty sure the 3rd gen RX-7 and SupraTT are both more rare than the NSX... iirc there's only like 1200 TT supras ever made from 93-98 in the US, and around 1600-1800 3rd gen RX-7s
i'm pretty sure the 3rd gen RX-7 and SupraTT are both more rare than the NSX... iirc there's only like 1200 TT supras ever made from 93-98 in the US, and around 1600-1800 3rd gen RX-7s
. There is no such thing as a 'base' model NSX (like a non-TT Supra and RX7 and 300Z) with a weak(er) engine option. You didn't include those tens of thousands of lower trim cars in those counts. Anyway guys- I'm guilty of taking this topic off track twice. If we want to discuss whether the 300zx should be consider an exotic car, let's start a new thread please.
03-01-04, 07:57 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
NSX
Don't forget; the NSX was not designed for drag racing as much as it was as a pioneering all-alumunum car for lightness and agility. It was not designed to go head-to-head with Dodge Vipers and 911 Turbos on the strip. Its 252 HP when it was introduced may not sound like much today but it was a fair amount for the time (1991), and it's ultra-light structure made the most of that power. In its day it definitely was an exotic, although today its handling is probably exceeded by the Lotus Elise....which is coming this spring.
03-01-04, 09:00 AM
#18
just to clear things up; the RX-7 had no turbo option; it was TT... all of them were...
3 options, the base, the Touring model, and the R1 (later named the R2 with a bit softer suspension)
the R1 in magazine tests outhandled and outaccelerated the NSX of that same year; also costed around $35k
theone thing it didnt have was the reliability as we all know
3 options, the base, the Touring model, and the R1 (later named the R2 with a bit softer suspension)
the R1 in magazine tests outhandled and outaccelerated the NSX of that same year; also costed around $35k
theone thing it didnt have was the reliability as we all know
Last edited by Bean; 03-01-04 at 09:01 AM.
03-01-04, 09:02 AM
#19
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Putting bumpers to the test
Cost of car not always most important indicator
By Lea Thompson
NBC News
Updated: 11:39 a.m. ET March 01, 2004From stop-and-go traffic, to the grocery store parking lot, there's always the chance you'll have a fender bender.
advertisement
“We're seeing millions, no, not millions, billions of dollars of damage just from these minor fender benders,” says Adian Lund of the insurance institute For Highway Safety, a nonprofit research group, funded by insurance companies whose goal is to keep their costs down.
“We do four crash tests to look at how bumpers perform in the real world,” says Lund. “We do a front and rear into to a flat barrier, and we do a rear into pole crash test. Then we do a front corner into an angle barrier, all at five miles per hour.”
This time the Institute ranked six midsize 2004 cars based on the average repair costs on all four tests. First up, the Mitsubishi Galant. At $19,600 it's the least expensive car in the test.
“Now, this would have been much worse,” says Lund, “except that Mitsubishi did make a last minute design change to the bumper system changing how things are attached.”
While that change did make a difference just the angle test will cost $853 to repair. So the car gets the Institute'ssecond highest rating, “acceptable.”
Vehicle safety resources
• Company responses to IIHS bumper tests
• Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (Full report results)
• National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
The 2004 $20,000 Suzuki Verona and the $28,000 Nissan Maxima both also do poorly in that angle test. They both get a “marginal,” the second lowest rating.
But what about the Acura TL? Does the $33,000 car have a better bumper?
“It may not look too bad,” says Lund, “but the big problem is that the bumper system underneath this is badly damaged.”
It was so badly damaged, it will cost $1,381 to fix. So the expensive Acura TL only gets a “marginal.”
Meanwhile, the new $21,000 Chevrolet Malibu doesn't do well on any of the tests. It gets the Institutes lowest rating, a “poor.”
How well do they bump?
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety does its fender-bender test at five miles an hour, which is twice the current federal standard. Choose a car below to see its damage repair costs, and how it rated against its peers.
Choose a vehicle2004 Chevrolet Malibu2004 Mitsubishi Galant2004 Suzuki Verona2004 Acura TSX2004 Nissan Maxima2004 Acura TL
Front into flat barrier
Rear into flat barrier
Front into angle barrier
Rear into pole
Total damage 4 tests
Average damage per test
Rating
Source: The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
Finally, the Institute tests another Acura, the $26,000 Acura TSX. The Institute moves the pole over because it says Acura tried to outsmart it by inserting extra padding in the bumper right where the test pole normally hits.
The test produces $1,559 in damage, with $1,269 for the front angle test. The Acura TSX gets a “poor.”
All in all, there were no “good” ratings this time around, just one acceptable, three marginals and two poors.
Manufacturers of the cars tested say the institute's tests is not related to safety and their cars meet or exceed all federal standards for bumpers.
And what about what the Institute calls strategically placed padding in the ACURA TSX's bumper? Acura writes "there is absolutely no merit to the suggestion that padding was applied to the TSX bumpers simply to influence the IIHS test results."
“This isn't brain surgery,” says Lund. “Manufacturers know how to build better bumpers.”
In fact, the Institute says the least expensive car in this round -- the $19,000 Mitsubishi Galant -- has better bumpers than the more expensive cars.
“How much you pay for the car doesn't indicate how good your bumpers are going to be,” says Lund.
Manufacturers of the cars tested say the institute's tests is not related to safety and their cars meet or exceed all federal standards for bumpers.
And what about what the Institute calls strategically placed padding in the ACURA TSX's bumper? Acura writes "there is absolutely no merit to the suggestion that padding was applied to the TSX bumpers simply to influence the IIHS test results."
“This isn't brain surgery,” says Lund. “Manufacturers know how to build better bumpers.”
In fact, the Institute says the least expensive car in this round -- the $19,000 Mitsubishi Galant -- has better bumpers than the more expensive cars.
“How much you pay for the car doesn't indicate how good your bumpers are going to be,” says Lund.
Cost of car not always most important indicator
By Lea Thompson
NBC News
Updated: 11:39 a.m. ET March 01, 2004From stop-and-go traffic, to the grocery store parking lot, there's always the chance you'll have a fender bender.
advertisement
“We're seeing millions, no, not millions, billions of dollars of damage just from these minor fender benders,” says Adian Lund of the insurance institute For Highway Safety, a nonprofit research group, funded by insurance companies whose goal is to keep their costs down.
“We do four crash tests to look at how bumpers perform in the real world,” says Lund. “We do a front and rear into to a flat barrier, and we do a rear into pole crash test. Then we do a front corner into an angle barrier, all at five miles per hour.”
This time the Institute ranked six midsize 2004 cars based on the average repair costs on all four tests. First up, the Mitsubishi Galant. At $19,600 it's the least expensive car in the test.
“Now, this would have been much worse,” says Lund, “except that Mitsubishi did make a last minute design change to the bumper system changing how things are attached.”
While that change did make a difference just the angle test will cost $853 to repair. So the car gets the Institute'ssecond highest rating, “acceptable.”
Vehicle safety resources
• Company responses to IIHS bumper tests
• Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (Full report results)
• National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
The 2004 $20,000 Suzuki Verona and the $28,000 Nissan Maxima both also do poorly in that angle test. They both get a “marginal,” the second lowest rating.
But what about the Acura TL? Does the $33,000 car have a better bumper?
“It may not look too bad,” says Lund, “but the big problem is that the bumper system underneath this is badly damaged.”
It was so badly damaged, it will cost $1,381 to fix. So the expensive Acura TL only gets a “marginal.”
Meanwhile, the new $21,000 Chevrolet Malibu doesn't do well on any of the tests. It gets the Institutes lowest rating, a “poor.”
How well do they bump?
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety does its fender-bender test at five miles an hour, which is twice the current federal standard. Choose a car below to see its damage repair costs, and how it rated against its peers.
Choose a vehicle2004 Chevrolet Malibu2004 Mitsubishi Galant2004 Suzuki Verona2004 Acura TSX2004 Nissan Maxima2004 Acura TL
Front into flat barrier
Rear into flat barrier
Front into angle barrier
Rear into pole
Total damage 4 tests
Average damage per test
Rating
Source: The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety
Finally, the Institute tests another Acura, the $26,000 Acura TSX. The Institute moves the pole over because it says Acura tried to outsmart it by inserting extra padding in the bumper right where the test pole normally hits.
The test produces $1,559 in damage, with $1,269 for the front angle test. The Acura TSX gets a “poor.”
All in all, there were no “good” ratings this time around, just one acceptable, three marginals and two poors.
Manufacturers of the cars tested say the institute's tests is not related to safety and their cars meet or exceed all federal standards for bumpers.
And what about what the Institute calls strategically placed padding in the ACURA TSX's bumper? Acura writes "there is absolutely no merit to the suggestion that padding was applied to the TSX bumpers simply to influence the IIHS test results."
“This isn't brain surgery,” says Lund. “Manufacturers know how to build better bumpers.”
In fact, the Institute says the least expensive car in this round -- the $19,000 Mitsubishi Galant -- has better bumpers than the more expensive cars.
“How much you pay for the car doesn't indicate how good your bumpers are going to be,” says Lund.
Manufacturers of the cars tested say the institute's tests is not related to safety and their cars meet or exceed all federal standards for bumpers.
And what about what the Institute calls strategically placed padding in the ACURA TSX's bumper? Acura writes "there is absolutely no merit to the suggestion that padding was applied to the TSX bumpers simply to influence the IIHS test results."
“This isn't brain surgery,” says Lund. “Manufacturers know how to build better bumpers.”
In fact, the Institute says the least expensive car in this round -- the $19,000 Mitsubishi Galant -- has better bumpers than the more expensive cars.
“How much you pay for the car doesn't indicate how good your bumpers are going to be,” says Lund.
03-01-04, 09:20 AM
#20
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Considering the NSX is all aluminum and the engine is in the rear of the car, I classify it as an exotic. It looks exotic too. It was to be the everyday exotic, which for some reason, never caught on. Not sure why? Can't say it was underpowerd, as it was on par with the Porsche 911 power wise (back in the day). It had more power than the old Lexus V-8s.
Maybe the cheaper RX-7, 300ZX, Supra stole the light. Americans have never been about making or buying lightweight cars. Always "HULK SAY MORE POWER"
The NSX is loved worldwide by all auto magazines, the NSX-R was the 2003 Car of the Year. But they never sold well.
I don't think people want to pony up $$$$$ for a Honda overseas.
I don't think people want to pony up $$$$$ for an Acura here.
But their re-sale is rock solid. A 11 year old NSX is a 30k car. That is incredible, holding 1/2 it's value for so long.
What he said!
Maybe the cheaper RX-7, 300ZX, Supra stole the light. Americans have never been about making or buying lightweight cars. Always "HULK SAY MORE POWER"
The NSX is loved worldwide by all auto magazines, the NSX-R was the 2003 Car of the Year. But they never sold well.
I don't think people want to pony up $$$$$ for a Honda overseas.
I don't think people want to pony up $$$$$ for an Acura here.
But their re-sale is rock solid. A 11 year old NSX is a 30k car. That is incredible, holding 1/2 it's value for so long.
Don't forget; the NSX was not designed for drag racing as much as it was as a pioneering all-alumunum car for lightness and agility. It was not designed to go head-to-head with Dodge Vipers and 911 Turbos on the strip. Its 252 HP when it was introduced may not sound like much today but it was a fair amount for the time (1991), and it's ultra-light structure made the most of that power. In its day it definitely was an exotic, although today its handling is probably exceeded by the Lotus Elise....which is coming this spring.
03-01-04, 09:54 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
NSX
Well, in a couple of months it will be a moot point anyway....there's an all-new NSX coming by the end of the year. Maybe this one will actually sell....the extremely low sales of the last model is probably the reason why Lexus and Infiniti never made a competitor.
1SICKLEX, do you know any Toyota/TRD/Lexus parts numbers for re-calibrating speedometers and odometers for larger-than-stock tire/wheel diameters? There is a forum posted by a guy who just got 19-inchers for his IS300....I pointed out that it could affect the speedo/odo but I'm not sure exactly what parts are required to recalibrate the assembly for the lower wheel rotation speed.
1SICKLEX, do you know any Toyota/TRD/Lexus parts numbers for re-calibrating speedometers and odometers for larger-than-stock tire/wheel diameters? There is a forum posted by a guy who just got 19-inchers for his IS300....I pointed out that it could affect the speedo/odo but I'm not sure exactly what parts are required to recalibrate the assembly for the lower wheel rotation speed.
03-01-04, 02:29 PM
#22
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My opinion: the NSX is semi-exotic. Honda could have axed the NSX in style with the NSX-R. Instead they updated the 02 model. The NSX platform is long overdue for a total redisign. I think the current NSX actually hurts Honda's image.
The next NSX isnt due out anytime soon. Honda already stated they will continue selling the V6. Hopefully they are lying. With the next Ferrari 360 (400?) Modena expected to deliver 500hp from a 4.0L V8 it cant hope to compete in any aspect besides price.
The NSX-R on the otherhand proves the platform is still amazing. The biggest problem with Japanese folks is they wont share. Americans are deprived of such an awesome car.
IMO the NSX was the first car to combine GT driving and comfort w/true high performance. The ASF is still considered amazing.
Honda came up with all sorts of clever gizmos.
They knew that a carbon fiber mono would not be feasable so built the first ASF in any automobile.
They knew Nikasil would be too expensive, so they invevented the cheaper CFM liner.
Here is my 2cents in 97 the NSX should have died. They should have created the NSX-R then and gone out with pride leaving the world in awe.
The next NSX isnt due out anytime soon. Honda already stated they will continue selling the V6. Hopefully they are lying. With the next Ferrari 360 (400?) Modena expected to deliver 500hp from a 4.0L V8 it cant hope to compete in any aspect besides price.
The NSX-R on the otherhand proves the platform is still amazing. The biggest problem with Japanese folks is they wont share. Americans are deprived of such an awesome car.
IMO the NSX was the first car to combine GT driving and comfort w/true high performance. The ASF is still considered amazing.
Honda came up with all sorts of clever gizmos.
They knew that a carbon fiber mono would not be feasable so built the first ASF in any automobile.
They knew Nikasil would be too expensive, so they invevented the cheaper CFM liner.
Here is my 2cents in 97 the NSX should have died. They should have created the NSX-R then and gone out with pride leaving the world in awe.
03-01-04, 02:40 PM
#23
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The Ultimate Driver's Car
NSX-R - Tuned at Honda's Takasu circuit
Porsche GT3 - Tuned in Germany's Nurburgring
At Nurburgring both cars run an impressive 7:56
NSX-R
3.2L V6 LEV 280hp (claimed) VTEC DOCH (camphasing on exaust and intake)
2800lbs
GT3
3.6L flat-6 380hp VarioCam Plus (camphasing and continually variable)
3042lb
M3 CSL - who cares?
360 Stradale - who actually races it?
NSX-R - Tuned at Honda's Takasu circuit
Porsche GT3 - Tuned in Germany's Nurburgring
At Nurburgring both cars run an impressive 7:56
NSX-R
3.2L V6 LEV 280hp (claimed) VTEC DOCH (camphasing on exaust and intake)
2800lbs
GT3
3.6L flat-6 380hp VarioCam Plus (camphasing and continually variable)
3042lb
M3 CSL - who cares?
360 Stradale - who actually races it?
03-02-04, 08:04 AM
#24
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The NSX is an exotic no matter what anyone says, when a NSX is driving down the street heads turn the same way they turn for a Vipor/ Modena etc. and when I say heads turn I mean elderly, kids, women, boys, men. The design demands attention hence exotic. Sorry Supras TT or not, Mazdas etc. does no such thing never, except for those who are enthusists of that car. I nor my friends even notice those cars we could be looking at Mitsu's GT3000 for all we know. But let an NSX cross our path, no its not the best or the fastest or the most expensive in its class it dosen't have to be, even still its an exotic.
05-20-04, 03:00 PM
#26
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Considering the NSX is all aluminum and the engine is in the rear of the car, I classify it as an exotic. It looks exotic too. It had more power than the old Lexus V-8s.
Considering the NSX is all aluminum and the engine is in the rear of the car, I classify it as an exotic. It looks exotic too. It had more power than the old Lexus V-8s.
05-20-04, 05:21 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Originally posted by SC400-V8
I cant for the life of me understand why someone would take a brand new TL over a used NSX considering they cost roughly the same.
I cant for the life of me understand why someone would take a brand new TL over a used NSX considering they cost roughly the same.
- Maybe they need back seats
- Maybe they want a navigation system
- Maybe they don't like a view out the front UNDER most SUVs
- Maybe they have sore backs and don't like getting in a car as low as the NSX
- Maybe they don't want a 10 year old car
- Maybe they don't want to think about the cost of repairing an ALL ALUMINUM car.
That's a few reasons anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I love the NSX, but it's not for everyone.
05-21-04, 12:51 AM
#29
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Here are the concept pics for the upcoming NSX. I forgot where the article is, but the president of honda said that this will go into production soon. It looks pretty damn hot to me
Last edited by Xenthar; 05-21-04 at 12:53 AM.