mmarshall

In case you guys want to know or for those of you who are not aware of it, there is a clear, invisible product on the market now that you can spray on your license plate that helps make it invisible to red-light cameras. It is legal because it does NOT darken the plate ...it stays clear to the human eye but supposedly foils only things like cameras, laser detectors, etc.....

I'm not advocating deliberate red-light running, of course........that is dangerous, and people who deliberately do that deserve tickets...........but sometimes those cameras can zap you even when you have made an HONEST split-second decision based on speed / distance whether to go through a yellow light or slam on the ABS at the last second.

Check out www.phantomplate.com for more details.

There are other companies getting into this business, too.

LB Lex

I think it will be deemed illegal because it foils the police's attempts to give tickets to those who illegally run a red light. I think it should be illegal for this very reason. If there was a legitimate reason for getting caught running a red light, this reason should be stated to the judge who will determine if running the red light was excusable or not.

altaf

I think that there is nothing wrong with those plate covers, but there is something wrong with the Red Light photo ticketing system. I think those photo ticketing systems are a nuisance because you are basically guilty until proven innocent. Does the photo system know that you are crossing a red light because an emergency vehicle behind you needs to get through? Or that you are following a funeral percussion? Or that the driver of the car registered in your name is not you? I don't think so... but you'll get a ticket anyways.

mooretorque

Two thoughts:

1) I basically agree with altaf. There have been a few articles (Pat Bedard in Car & Driver a few months back, if memory serves, for one) that detail just how effective these are as revenue generators but also how INeffective they are at decreasing accident frequency (the reason that is always cited for their use) at the intersections at which they are used. Guilty until proven innocent, send us the money.

2) As far as phantomplate, caveat emptor. Radar/laser jammers "work", too, if you define "work" as seperating you from your money. Those ads belong in the back of the book with the pills guaranteed to enlarge THE UNIT............

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i totally agree with altaf on this one. there is no other "human" witness to prove otherwise at all. frankly, the whole move about the red light camera is to raise revenue imho

mmarshall

Whether the system is designed or not simply for the purpose of collecting revenue, it certainly gives the APPEARANCE of being a revenue-collector. There would be a LOT more credibility to the system as a SAFETY-enhancer rather than a REVENUE-enhancer, if, instead of just sending out arbitrary fines in the mail, other penalties instead were sent out instead....like a written warning to the car's owner the first time, and a court appearance the second. In VA here where live you can beat the ticket by signing an affidavit saying someone else was driving the car at the time....the camera records only the back end of the car, not the driver's face....and the fine will be dropped. Also, it does NOT go on your insurance in either case.
Like I said earlier, I'm not advocating red-light running.
But too often (and come on....we've ALL done this)...you have to make an honest split-second decision on a YELLOW light (not a red one) whether or not to go through it based on speed and distance from the intersection. These cameras sometimes punish you for that.
Maybe, if this spray-on product is sold and used enough, it will force local governments to change; not the idea of catching red-light runners, but the way that they deal with it.

Dominik

Well here in Australia we have a different system. The camera always takes 2 shots, a second or so apart to see whether you were trying to stop for the intersection; or making way for an emergency vehicle (who would also get photographed - which would come as good evidence).

But we have an even more sinister system slowly being implemented - Combined Redlight/Speeding cameras, which catch anyone who tries to speed through an intersection AND those that dont stop in time! Now thats bad...

Oh, and to make matters worse, we can also say that we were not driving the car - but by law you MUST give the details of the person who is driving, or you get the fine (might be able to take it to court though). Talk about blatant violation of our civil rights!!!

mmarshall

Yeah...and this from the country that is sending us the 350 HP Holden GTO.

siniquezu

Here is my question: Does crossing a red light strongly correlate with accidents? We have already established that drunk driving causes a major impairment of cautious driving. Does crossing a red light strongly correlate as well?

siniquezu

I'm also surprised that we haven't installed a speed detection/red light crossing detector. We have both installed and available on the streets but why haven't they thought of combining them?....uh-oh I think I said too much....

Milla...

In this country I have found that nothing is ever what it seems, yeah the reason to install those cameras for safety reasons I mean how else are they going to justify it besides it looks good on paper, makes for a good argument to keep them when people start catching on to the scam. In all reality there primary use is for revenue with safety as a bi-product.

LB Lex

Usually the cameras take a picture to see if you enter the intersection when the light is already red. If you are already in the intersection when the light turns red, then they usually don't give tickets because the driver most likely entered the intersection when it was yellow, which is legal. It's not an automatic ticket, it is reviewed before a ticket is sent out. In Long Beach, CA., they installed red-light cameras at intersections that are notorious for red-light runners and accidents, and according to the local newspapers the accident rates have been reduced. I really don't see a problem with red light cameras, if they make you think twice about going through an intersection to beat a light, no big deal because all you have to do is what another 30 seconds to 1 minute for the light to turn green.

LB Lex

Here are the stats from San Francisco. I'm sure it would be pretty easy to find the stats from most any city.

TABLE: Collisions Caused by Red Light Violators in San Francisco, 1992-1997(*)
Year---Injury Collisions-----Fatalies-------Total Injured
1992---780-------------------------3---------------1367
1993---779-------------------------5---------------1320
1994---781-------------------------4---------------1293
1995---809-------------------------4---------------1343
1996---780-------------------------5---------------1297
1997---724-------------------------1---------------1198

(*) Department of California Highway Patrol, State Wide Integrated Traffic Records System

mmarshall

Obviously this depends on the amount of cross-traffic, but I have several friends who have either T-Boned or been T-boned by red-light runners. At best it is dangerous.


Part of the problem is there are simply too many red lights to start with in places like Southern CA, D.C. Baltimore, Atlanta, etc..... because these areas have grown too much. I don't advocate red-light running, but the simple fact is that the more of them you have, especially with a lot of people always in a hurry, the more people are tempted to run them.
Local governments should think more about this before they vote to put so many of them up.

Dominik

I have no problems with redlight cameras, because like others said, they stop people running a red light. And another thing is that they stop people queuing across intersections during peak hour - anothe pet peave of mine! Nothing more annoying than waiting your mandatory 2 minutes at a traffic light only to be blocked by someone who wouldnt wait his turn; meaning another 2 minute wait for you!!

Yeah; we're sending you the Pontiac GTO; one of many cars that are totally overpowered for our roads Can you imagine driving a 350kw (480hp) Ute (ummm think toyota minitruck but a unibody design)? Without a load in the back????? I think they started putting restrictions on Learner drivers after a few of the more well off were caught in these monsters (priced about the same as an 5 series beemer)