I think I know how Lexus will overtake Europe.
03-16-04, 10:46 PM
#1
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I think I know how Lexus will overtake Europe.
Well, we all know Lexus is a success in America. But in Europe, it is not fairing so well. Lexus has promised to be a complete range and serious threat in Europe. How will this be done?
1. Lexus world-wide. Lexus will be sold in Japan in 2005. No more Toyota/Lexus badged cars.
2. Lexus now has it's own design language. No more Toyota looks on some cars.
3. Lexus has promised an IS range, similar to the 3 (sedan, coupe, convt, wagon). The 3 is huge in Europe. The current IS is the Lexus most loved in Europe for being BMWish in execution.
4. Lexus will offer a M/AMG competitor car(s). Creates the performance the autobahn desires.
5. Used Lexus word is spreading. People in Europe buying a cheap, used Lexus are discovering their qualities and abilites. Especially those tired of their German/British luxury cars in the shop constantly.
6. The LS 430 keeps getting better, it is already on the CAR (big Euro car mag)list of 100 best cars and regarded as many as the finest luxury car (for those with no sporting pretensions).
7. Hybrids. This is the biggest REASON. In Europe gas is
a. Expensive as hell (like $4.00 a gallon in some places
b. There are pollution taxes
Diesal powered cars are very popular for their high fuel economy compared to gas. Low emmisions vehicles are also big in Europe. Hybrids fill this. As well as providing greater fuel economy than their gas only counterparts. With:
1. High quality
2. Better gas mileage
3. Lower emissions
4. Better performance
Hybrids from Toyota/Lexus will take Europe by storm. Don't say I did not warn you.
1. Lexus world-wide. Lexus will be sold in Japan in 2005. No more Toyota/Lexus badged cars.
2. Lexus now has it's own design language. No more Toyota looks on some cars.
3. Lexus has promised an IS range, similar to the 3 (sedan, coupe, convt, wagon). The 3 is huge in Europe. The current IS is the Lexus most loved in Europe for being BMWish in execution.
4. Lexus will offer a M/AMG competitor car(s). Creates the performance the autobahn desires.
5. Used Lexus word is spreading. People in Europe buying a cheap, used Lexus are discovering their qualities and abilites. Especially those tired of their German/British luxury cars in the shop constantly.
6. The LS 430 keeps getting better, it is already on the CAR (big Euro car mag)list of 100 best cars and regarded as many as the finest luxury car (for those with no sporting pretensions).
7. Hybrids. This is the biggest REASON. In Europe gas is
a. Expensive as hell (like $4.00 a gallon in some places
b. There are pollution taxes
Diesal powered cars are very popular for their high fuel economy compared to gas. Low emmisions vehicles are also big in Europe. Hybrids fill this. As well as providing greater fuel economy than their gas only counterparts. With:
1. High quality
2. Better gas mileage
3. Lower emissions
4. Better performance
Hybrids from Toyota/Lexus will take Europe by storm. Don't say I did not warn you.
03-17-04, 05:47 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
What they need to do is make some great diesel engines.
Out of the total possible customer base 48% only wants to drive a diesel in these segments.
That is half of their possible customers they are neglecting.
Lexus make great cars but they need to look at what the customer wants and needs, the US, Japanese and European markets are too different from each other
One other thing they need to do is promote their cars a little better (understatement).
Out of the total possible customer base 48% only wants to drive a diesel in these segments.
That is half of their possible customers they are neglecting.
Lexus make great cars but they need to look at what the customer wants and needs, the US, Japanese and European markets are too different from each other
One other thing they need to do is promote their cars a little better (understatement).
03-17-04, 05:55 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
One BIG problem, though, in Europe that you forgot to address was the fact that many European governments, unlike us, practice protectionism and steep tariffs to at least partially keep out foreign (especially Japanese) competition. That is why Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Renault, Peugeot, Opel, etc.... are such successes in Europe in spite of the fact that, quality-wise, they build piece-of-s--- cars and years ago were forced out of the American market by irate consumers that got stuck with lemons and rust-buckets. That is also why, despite their dropping quality record and Chris Bangle designs, BMW and Mercedes still dominate the German luxury car market. So, it remains to be seen if Lexus can crack this market with all of the obstacles that will be thrown in its path...even in spite of the fact that Lexus makes far better products quality-wise than any of the big European brands.
03-17-04, 06:07 AM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by mmarshall
One BIG problem, though, in Europe that you forgot to address was the fact that many European governments, unlike us, practice protectionism and steep tariffs to at least partially keep out foreign (especially Japanese) competition. That is why Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Renault, Peugeot, Opel, etc.... are such successes in Europe in spite of the fact that, quality-wise, they build piece-of-s--- cars and years ago were forced out of the American market by irate consumers that got stuck with lemons and rust-buckets. That is also why, despite their dropping quality record and Chris Bangle designs, BMW and Mercedes still dominate the German luxury car market. So, it remains to be seen if Lexus can crack this market with all of the obstacles that will be thrown in its path...even in spite of the fact that Lexus makes far better products quality-wise than any of the big European brands.
One BIG problem, though, in Europe that you forgot to address was the fact that many European governments, unlike us, practice protectionism and steep tariffs to at least partially keep out foreign (especially Japanese) competition. That is why Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Renault, Peugeot, Opel, etc.... are such successes in Europe in spite of the fact that, quality-wise, they build piece-of-s--- cars and years ago were forced out of the American market by irate consumers that got stuck with lemons and rust-buckets. That is also why, despite their dropping quality record and Chris Bangle designs, BMW and Mercedes still dominate the German luxury car market. So, it remains to be seen if Lexus can crack this market with all of the obstacles that will be thrown in its path...even in spite of the fact that Lexus makes far better products quality-wise than any of the big European brands.
The thing BMW and Mercedes have that Lexus doesn't is that it's considdered a status symbol.
Also, the offerings from the big germans have more engine choices and diesels in their lineup.
03-17-04, 06:25 AM
#5
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Thats absolutely true. The 3 series for example has like 4 different engine choices, ranging from that pathetic 1.8 liter 4 banger, to a more decent 3.0 liter inline 6, lexus cars have 2 engines at most, and in most cases, only 1. 3 series IMO are way overpriced for what they are. My freind bought a '93
325i for about $8,500 a few years back, and fr that money he could have bought an SC400 that couls easily beat it up.
325i for about $8,500 a few years back, and fr that money he could have bought an SC400 that couls easily beat it up.
Originally posted by Richie
You are right about the import tarriffs but even then the Lexus offerings are still better (price wise) then a simmilar specced Mercedes or BMW.
The thing BMW and Mercedes have that Lexus doesn't is that it's considdered a status symbol.
Also, the offerings from the big germans have more engine choices and diesels in their lineup.
You are right about the import tarriffs but even then the Lexus offerings are still better (price wise) then a simmilar specced Mercedes or BMW.
The thing BMW and Mercedes have that Lexus doesn't is that it's considdered a status symbol.
Also, the offerings from the big germans have more engine choices and diesels in their lineup.
03-17-04, 08:19 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by Richie
You are right about the import tarriffs but even then the Lexus offerings are still better (price wise) then a simmilar specced Mercedes or BMW.
The thing BMW and Mercedes have that Lexus doesn't is that it's considdered a status symbol.
Also, the offerings from the big germans have more engine choices and diesels in their lineup.
You are right about the import tarriffs but even then the Lexus offerings are still better (price wise) then a simmilar specced Mercedes or BMW.
The thing BMW and Mercedes have that Lexus doesn't is that it's considdered a status symbol.
Also, the offerings from the big germans have more engine choices and diesels in their lineup.
BMW and Mercedes probably have no choice but to offer more (and smaller) engine-tranny combos in Europe than they do here. It is hard to sell V12's and large V8's when gas is $4-6 a gallon.
Incedentally, we'll be starting to get more of those advanced European diesels here in another couple of years when the oil companies here will be required to produce low-sulfur diesel fuel. That is been the main hang-up bringing really good diesels here (except for VW) ....the fact that the diesel fuel sold here is intended mostly for trucks and railroad locomotives.....and it is garbage compared to the diesel fuel that
Europeans get.
03-17-04, 08:49 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
Re: I think I know how Lexus will overtake Europe.
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
4. Lexus will offer a M/AMG competitor car(s). Creates the performance the autobahn desires.
4. Lexus will offer a M/AMG competitor car(s). Creates the performance the autobahn desires.
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03-17-04, 09:31 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Re: Re: I think I know how Lexus will overtake Europe.
Originally posted by Technics
Personally this is what I'm looking forward to the most. Having a dedicated performance division like AMG and M will help solidify the Lexus marque. I for one would love to see a one-off Lexus "street legal" racecar like the Mercedes CLK-GTR.
Personally this is what I'm looking forward to the most. Having a dedicated performance division like AMG and M will help solidify the Lexus marque. I for one would love to see a one-off Lexus "street legal" racecar like the Mercedes CLK-GTR.
Other Lexus models with V8's can probably do better than that.....unless the computers limit the top speed.
03-17-04, 09:40 AM
#9
In Mexico, we essentially have a European market with high gas prices and pollution problems and all the raft of Renault, Peugeots, Chevy(Opel), etc. Toyota is here, and Lexus will come within a year. After talking to a Toyota representative last week, they understand that the problems associated with Lexus in Europe could come to haunt Lexus' arrival here in Mexico. That is why they are taking their time studying the issue.
Infiniti only has two models here, Acura is coming in October, but so far no one has really made a nick against BMW or Mercedes. One key for Toyota seems to be establishing Toyota as a central brand with high quality. This was something not done in Europe. Lexus was just tossed into Europe and people did not identify quality and value when it came. More and more I get the sense that Mexicans are realizing this, thus Lexus should have a smoother paved road to ride in on.
Infiniti only has two models here, Acura is coming in October, but so far no one has really made a nick against BMW or Mercedes. One key for Toyota seems to be establishing Toyota as a central brand with high quality. This was something not done in Europe. Lexus was just tossed into Europe and people did not identify quality and value when it came. More and more I get the sense that Mexicans are realizing this, thus Lexus should have a smoother paved road to ride in on.
03-17-04, 09:57 AM
#11
Lexus Champion
Re: Re: Re: I think I know how Lexus will overtake Europe.
Originally posted by mmarshall
Yes, but even without a "Performance" division, almost any existing Lexus sedan or coupe will easily do Autobahn speeds. The entry-level IS300 E-shift, for example, even with only 215 HP and relatively short gearing, has a published top speed of 143 MPH......and the 5-speed is good for a couple more.
Other Lexus models with V8's can probably do better than that.....unless the computers limit the top speed.
Yes, but even without a "Performance" division, almost any existing Lexus sedan or coupe will easily do Autobahn speeds. The entry-level IS300 E-shift, for example, even with only 215 HP and relatively short gearing, has a published top speed of 143 MPH......and the 5-speed is good for a couple more.
Other Lexus models with V8's can probably do better than that.....unless the computers limit the top speed.
With the introduction of a dedicated performance division the suspension of the car could be correctly calibrated to handle well at these types of speeds straight from the factory. Like you mentioned a stock GS400 is a perfect example of car with a monster engine that has a top speed that easily overcomes its stock suspension. I agree with you, stock Lexus cars are an excellent base to start with. Now with some additional tuning..........Almost like the difference between a 540i and M5. Taking a great car and making it that much better.
03-17-04, 10:11 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by SC400-V8
Thats absolutely true. The 3 series for example has like 4 different engine choices, ranging from that pathetic 1.8 liter 4 banger, to a more decent 3.0 liter inline 6, lexus cars have 2 engines at most, and in most cases, only 1. 3 series IMO are way overpriced for what they are. My freind bought a '93
325i for about $8,500 a few years back, and fr that money he could have bought an SC400 that couls easily beat it up.
Thats absolutely true. The 3 series for example has like 4 different engine choices, ranging from that pathetic 1.8 liter 4 banger, to a more decent 3.0 liter inline 6, lexus cars have 2 engines at most, and in most cases, only 1. 3 series IMO are way overpriced for what they are. My freind bought a '93
325i for about $8,500 a few years back, and fr that money he could have bought an SC400 that couls easily beat it up.
For engines you have:
Gasoline:
1.6
1.8
2.0
2.5
3.0
Diesel:
1.8 turbo
2.0 turbo
3.0 turbo
The IS has only two options, a 2.0 inline 6 and a 3.0 inline six gasoline engines. The 2.0 is available in both auto and manual, the 3.0 is only available in an auto.
The IS200 is still a better deal then the 320 sedan over here. similarly specced it's at least 5k cheaper.
03-17-04, 10:14 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by mmarshall
BMW and Mercedes probably have no choice but to offer more (and smaller) engine-tranny combos in Europe than they do here. It is hard to sell V12's and large V8's when gas is $4-6 a gallon.
Incedentally, we'll be starting to get more of those advanced European diesels here in another couple of years when the oil companies here will be required to produce low-sulfur diesel fuel. That is been the main hang-up bringing really good diesels here (except for VW) ....the fact that the diesel fuel sold here is intended mostly for trucks and railroad locomotives.....and it is garbage compared to the diesel fuel that
Europeans get.
BMW and Mercedes probably have no choice but to offer more (and smaller) engine-tranny combos in Europe than they do here. It is hard to sell V12's and large V8's when gas is $4-6 a gallon.
Incedentally, we'll be starting to get more of those advanced European diesels here in another couple of years when the oil companies here will be required to produce low-sulfur diesel fuel. That is been the main hang-up bringing really good diesels here (except for VW) ....the fact that the diesel fuel sold here is intended mostly for trucks and railroad locomotives.....and it is garbage compared to the diesel fuel that
Europeans get.
03-17-04, 10:17 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Re: Re: Re: I think I know how Lexus will overtake Europe.
Originally posted by mmarshall
Yes, but even without a "Performance" division, almost any existing Lexus sedan or coupe will easily do Autobahn speeds. The entry-level IS300 E-shift, for example, even with only 215 HP and relatively short gearing, has a published top speed of 143 MPH......and the 5-speed is good for a couple more.
Other Lexus models with V8's can probably do better than that.....unless the computers limit the top speed.
Yes, but even without a "Performance" division, almost any existing Lexus sedan or coupe will easily do Autobahn speeds. The entry-level IS300 E-shift, for example, even with only 215 HP and relatively short gearing, has a published top speed of 143 MPH......and the 5-speed is good for a couple more.
Other Lexus models with V8's can probably do better than that.....unless the computers limit the top speed.
Only around 5% of the autobahn is still limitless and the penalties for going over the speedlimits in europe are not to be laughed at.
If it'll do 155 like the competition does that will be ok, they will have to focus on handling and acceleration IMO.
03-17-04, 10:21 AM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by ISinnXL
i read about LS430 in some european magazins. they now call the LS430 as the benchmark of the luxury sedan and i believe it cost a lot more in EUROPE.
i read about LS430 in some european magazins. they now call the LS430 as the benchmark of the luxury sedan and i believe it cost a lot more in EUROPE.
The LS430 is he benchmark for luxery.