Lexus Test Drive - Taste of Luxury
10-11-04, 01:45 PM
#66
My review, my opinions in case any of you care:
The event was incredible, even better than last years. I took my mom's fianceé with me because he's looking for a new car sometime soon and you have to be 21 to drive. Yes, I'm only 17 but they never checked your passes to see your age and I look 21 at least, so I drove all the cars with no problem. They had the entrance area decorated like the Ritz Carlton and signing in and getting passes was a breeze. Once we arrived and signed in we sat through a 5 minute orientation and then they cut us loose! The first part was a gallery of sorts, much like the Lexus display at the autoshow. They had setups explaining VVT-i, the new swiveling headlights, the GX470's KDSS, posters of the LF-S, LF-X, LF-C, new GS, and other artwork stuff, with a SC430 sitting in the middle of the room. Off to the right from that was the "Mark Levinson Room" with an LS430 and LX470, both of which were on and open to sit and play music in. There was also a TV, sound system display, and then the back seats to the LS430 were just sitting there (alone, not connected to a car) like recliners. There was another room dedicated to hybrid technology, and the RX 400h was there, as well as a bare bones chassis with the batteries, engine, power cables, ect to look at.
From there you walked out into the atrium where they had tables and chairs, buffets, and also 5-Star cooking demonstrations by some of the top chefs in Atlanta. From the atrium, you walk outside to the golf area, and the three tracks. They had a silver IS, ES, GS300, GS430, LS430 Sport, LX, RX, GX and SC, all outside together and all in silver which looked pretty cool.
The first track we went to was the SUV one where we drove the RX vs the X3, XC90 and MDX, GX against the X5 4.4i and ML500, and the LX470 against the Escalade and Range Rover.
My take on RX330 vs. MDX vs. XC90 vs. X3
1. RX330- the interior is by far the best of the four, it drives like a sedan and is firm and agile whereas the others, aside from the BMW, have a good bit of body roll and pitch. The interior is just right for me in size and shape. The engine/tranny combo work together quite well. The RX was probably the best overall SUV of the 4 (to me) because it was the smoothest even over bumps and rutts, was firm and confident in the corners and slolam, and finishes it off with a nearly perfect interior and a nice engine. The price is spot-on as well.
2. Volvo XC90- I'm not much for Volvo interiors, but overall the XC was a firm, composed and confident 'ute. It wasn't as firm as the RX and X3 on road, nor as smooth as the RX offroad, but it comes together well to make a nice overall package. The ride is nicer and more controlled than the MDX, and I prefer the interior to the MDX's as well. The engine was a bit sluggish when compared to the others, but certainly more than adequate.
3. Acura MDX- This was by far the biggest disappointment of the group. The interior is stark and downright cheap looking compared to the RX, the wood is fake and certainly looks like it, the bodyroll was the worst of the group, it wasn't as smooth as the RX on road or offroad, and although it has 265HP, it didn't feel any faster than the RX or X3. The interior is spacious and it's definitely attractive from the outside, but those are about the only positive things I can find to say about it.
4. The X3 was smaller than the others, one of the most expensive, unattractive outside, drab and cold inside, the ride was harsh and the mud/rutts were PUNISHING compared to the smoothness of the RX or XC, but it did perform the best around the slolam and in the corners. Strangely enough, the RX honestly felt just about as firm and agile as the X3, but was noticeably smoother.
My take on GX470 vs ML500 vs X5 4.4i
1. GX470- perfect in size, incredible offroad whereas the other two struggle to make it over uneven mud/rocks, interior is nice in size but I don't like the console/shifter layout, the AVS works nicely and you can firm it up noticeably around the corners and slolam with the turn of the ****. The exterior is looking good, but it needs some sort of refresh. They told us there that the 2005 model would get 270HP and 330 lb-ft of torque, as well as an optional sport package. I picked up a 2005 Full line brochure later that confirmed that, so extra power is on the way. It wasn't as quick or agile as the X5 on the on road course, but felt more planted and more stable than the ML500. My favorite of this group, and not just because it's a Lexus. Overall, it's the SUV to beat here, although I do wish they had an Aviator to test as well.
2. X5 4.4i- not much worse than the ML500 offroad, but the interior is much nicer and more user friendly than the M's. It's a pleasure to drive in the on road course and is no where as punishing as the X3. The price is a bit hefty in comparison to what you're getting though. Engine power is perfect and blows the other two away in a straight line.
3. ML500- Plain and simple, the Mercedes doesn't do anything particularly well, is outdated and unattractive and the replacement can't come soon enough. That's sort of harsh, but the truth hurts.
My take on LX470 vs. Range Rover vs. Escalade
1. LX470- The LX is getting long in the tooth, but when it comes to combining all the necessary attributes at a decent price, it's still the 'ute to beat. The only weak point is the engine which is only adequate in power. For it's size it handles well and feels more firmly planted and stable than the RR, which felt extremely wobbly and was "body rolling" all over the on road course. I'm sure the AVS had a good bit to do with that last part though. Some people like the look of the RR's interior, but I prefer the LX's classic, simple, and user-friendly take on luxury over the RR's. The wood and leather are first rate, buttons are clear and easy to use, and the whole design is very user friendly. Off road it actually felt a bit better than the RR, and I'm sure they had the course set up to the LX's advantage. The same thing happened last year where they lined up a bunch of logs with mud over them, on an incline, and the RR has a terrible time of trying to get over it whereas the LX, GX, and even X5 have no trouble.
2. Range Rover- This was probably the least attractive of the three. The exterior looks out of proportion to me, and far too blocky, I also don't like the side profile shot, at all. The front and rear end are cool, but I don't like the rest of the design. The interior materials were first rate, but there are too many shades of grey matched with orange wood, green buttons, ect. The buttons are smaller and more plentiful than in the LX and Escalade, and it would have taken a good bit of time to learn how to work everything whereas you could hop in the other two, crank the AC, turn on the music and get comfortable instantly. Off road it felt great, though not as stable and confident as the LX as I noted before. I'd have a hard time justifying the Range Rover over the LX though, based on price, options and value. It's wobbly onroad though and the body roll gets to be excessive in the corners. Engine power felt best of the three though, despite the Cadillac's advantage on paper.
3, and a distant 3rd, Escalade- Last year when I went to the event I was pretty much disgusted with the Cadillac, and obviously, the vehicle hasn't changed at all. The exterior is fine, but the interior is a complete joke and is completely unacceptable (you Cadillac people can make all the excuses you want, the interior is unacceptable in the face of the competition). I won't go into the off road performance, because it was banging, clunking, tire spinning and scraping more than the car based X5. On road it felt more firm than the RR, but not as composed as the LX. The engine sounds sweet, and fits the size of the SUV nicely. The RR did feel faster though. Not to rag on Cadillac, but it was sort of humorous to see how many people were in line for the Escalade and once they drove it, they got out saying how disappointed they were in comparison to the LX and even the GX.
After the SUV course, we went to the "Luxury Performance" track which included the LS430 Sport and UL models vs. the S430 and 745i, and the ES330 vs. C320 and TL, and GS300 vs. E320 and 530i. This course consisted of two straight aways, 3 sharp curves, slolam, and an accident avoidance thing that had two rotating stuffed animal deer that you had to avoid while you were driving.
My take on LS430 vs. S430 and 745i:
1. LS430 Sport- we only drove the sport model because neither of us care for the ultra-cushy ride of the UL model, and were pleasantly surprised. It's not as firm or fast as the 745i, but it's nicely in between the S class and 7series, definitely firmer than the S430 (which had the 18" AMG wheels and Sport Package as well). There's just a tad more body roll than the 745i, but it's not as bad as the S430, but it's surprisingly firm for a big sedan. The sport package really makes a pretty big difference in ride and handling over the UL and Standard models. The interior was my favorite of the three with grey leather and mahogany woodgrain. Like all of BMW's new interiors, the 745 is stark, cold, uninviting, and cursed with iDrive. EVERYONE who drove the 5 and 7 complained about iDrive and how BMW had managed how to complicate something that had been so easy in their previous models. The S430s interior is outdated and plain, but I know the new model is just around the corner. The back seat in the LS isn't as big as the 745i, but is still nice and has massagers, drink coolers, radio, ect. The LS430 felt just a hair slower than the 745i, but both of them felt worlds above the S430 in acceleration. Again, considering price, it's hard to think about choosing anything but the LS430 here.
2. BMW 745i- If BMW hadn't messed with the interior so badly, it would have been a tie with the LS. It's frusterating to get in a car and not be able to turn down the radio (we learned you have to do it on the steering wheel later) or listen to any radio stations except the pre-set ones. I'm sure theres a way around both of those things, but I wasn't going to sit and worry about it for the 5 minutes I had the car. It corners, accelerates and drives perfectly. Driving the car was absolute heaven, but it's too bad the overall package has been botched with weirdo styling and an overly comlicated interior. The back seat was the biggest of the three, and the headrests on all the seats were veeeery comfortable. The car is certainly expensive though, and it didn't even have some of the options that the LS had and was thousands more expensive.
2. S430- it was the slowest, cushiest, had the most body roll, most out dated interior and average options with a premium pricetag. Again, I know the new model is just around the corner so I'm not going to harp on the car too badly.
My take on GS300 vs. 530i and E320:
1. 530i- I really like the way the 5 series looks, and it performed flawlessly. It was the fastest of the three, cornered the best, handled the nicest, and had a decent interior. iDrive is the only downfall the car has IMO. Yes it's a bit expensive, but you get what you pay for. Driving the 530i around the road course was a complete pleasure as all the BMW's fit me like gloves and seemed to know exactly how I think a sedan of this caliber should perform.
2. GS300- I can't believe that I chose it over the E320, but Andy (mom's fianceé) and I both were a bit disappointed with the Mercedes. The GS300 isn't as hard edged as the 530i and is definitely a bit cushier, but it's predictable and drives the same way all the time. It was noticeably the slowest of the three, but around the corners it performed admirably. The 530i was definitely my choice overall and for driving, but I like the GS300's interior the best. Thankfully the new model is just around the corner, but considering price, even at 7 years old the GS is still a very competitive car.
3. Mercedes E320- I think the E320 was the weirdest car I drove all day yesterday. The chassis gets spongy in some areas, and uncomfortable tight in others. It's like it almost tries to be as hard edged as the Bimmer but also as smooth as the Lexus. On straight aways it got floaty for some reason and then got REALLY firm in the corners and in the end, it was just awkward to drive. It's not as firm as the 530i, nor as smooth as the GS, but it's not as well balanced a car when compared to either of them. The 530i is definitely the most balanced overall, but the GS300 is always predictable and you know how to drive it. The E320 was sort of tricky. I liked the interior and exterior though, and the interior was much better than the 530i.
My take on ES330 vs. TL and C320
1. TL- Considering how much talk there is about torque steer and such with this car, I want you all to know that I pushed it as hard as I possible could, harder than ANY other car all day long and I never got it to pull, push, or even twitch. Acceleration wise, it completely stomped the ES, C320, GS300, E320 and even the 530i. It was a 5AT and still wicked fast. The handling and steering are phenominal, and I kid you not, I think the car drives almost as nicely as the 530i. It's firm and planted, fast and confident, and you'd never know it was FWD...ever. The 6SPD may be a different story, but the automatic didn't let any torque steer through. The interior is nice, but not as rich and luxurious as the ES. The seats are awesome though! Considering the price, I think the TL is the car to beat under $40K right now.
2. ES330- I got in the car and instantly switched the AVS to "sport", so take my review from that point of view. The interior was easily the best at the whole event in terms of colors, layout, user friendliness, and ergonomics, and I mean than even considering the LS430 and SC430. The LS is nice and has a few more features, but the ES's interior is absolutely phenominal and I like the waterfall center stack as opposed to the LS's design. The seats are wonderful, everything is right in front of you and easy to use, I could go on and on. With the dial on Sport, the ES was one of the more surprising cars I drove. It's not as hard edged as the TL, but not as soft as the GS300 or C320. It's comparable to the LS430 sport really...it's firm and confident, you always know what to expect, but it never gets as hard as the TL or the Bimmers. For overall driving dynamic, the TL was my favorite of these three, but the ES deserves more credibility than it gets and is actually firmer than the C320 with the dial on sport.
3. C320- Much like the other Mercedes, it didn't do anything particularly well. It wasn't as hard edged or fast as the TL, and even the ES was firmer and had a better interior. Overall though, I have to say that I think the C320 is a very well rounded car. It sits nicely on the line between luxury and sport, and is pleasing to drive all around. The interior could use some work, and the exterior is starting to age. The cars real weakpoint though is price, especially compared to the less expensive TL that drives better and has more features.
After the "Luxury Performance Track" we went over to the "Sport Performance Track" to drive the IS300 vs. the 330i and G35, the GS430 vs the 545i and E500, and the SC430 against the XK8 and XLR. This track consisted of a straight away that leads into a slolam thing then tight turn, another straight away, tight turn, then an "accident avoidance" thing that involved a guy standing behind a huge fake tree, throwing foam blocks in front of your car to swerve and avoid.
My take on IS300 vs. 330i and G35
1 (tie). IS300- For the price, the IS really is the car to beat here IMO. Maybe it's because I'm 17, but the IS is the most appealing car here to me, and it also out drove the drivers car IMO. The interior, while not as attractive as the TL or C320, is more modern looking than the 330i, and the G35's is downright unacceptable. Around the track the IS instantly gives you a feeling of confidence and you feel 100% bolted to the ground. It wasn't as fast as the other two, but as far as a pure drivers car I think it's hard to beat in terms of handling, steering, and how it all together "drives". I love the exterior, but the interior like I said is modern, but still could be much better.
1 (tie). BMW 330i- It's the oldest car here, was the benchmark for the class for a long time, and to many people, it still is. It drives almost as nicely as the IS but isn't quite as hard edged. It has more power though and it feels awesome around the track in general. The exterior will always age well and you can tell that the interior was great back when the car is new. As old as it is, the 330i is still one of the best overall vehicles on the market. It can be a bit pricey though, sometimes $10K or so more than the IS, which is why I called a tie.
2. G35- it had been a while since I was in a G35, and I can tell you I was still disappointed all over again with the interior. The interior materials were only a hair better than a Toyota Echo. The design is boring and ugly to look at, but still user friendly I guess. The G35's 3.5L V6 has raw power, whereas the TL's 3.2L unit felt more sophisticated and polished. They're very different powerplants, but the two inline sixes were probably my favorite, followed by the 3.2L in the TL, and then the G35's. One isn't necessarily better than the other, they're all just very different. In the corners, the G doesn't feel as buckled down as the IS, 330i or even TL (although it wasn't on this course to be driven back to back against), but on the straight away it seriously rips ahead. If Infiniti had made the interior more fitting for a $30K car as opposed to a $10K one, I think I would have been more accepting of the car as a whole.
My take on GS430 vs. 545i and E500
1. 545i- I almost didn't get a chance to drive the 545i, but I'm so glad that I did. In terms of power, handling, cornering, and driving demeanor, this is the car to beat right now. It rips off the starting line, digs deep into corners, lives for the slolam course, corners like it's on rails, and holds the driver to the road like nothing else. Yes it's expensive, but it is one fine car to drive. The interior was alright, but again, plagued with iDrive which is my ONLY complaint.
2. GS430- For being 25HP short of the BMW, it posted acceleration times that were only 1-2MPH behind the 545i. It's not as firm as the Bimmer overall, and in the slolam course the car will become increasingly unsettled if you don't apply the brakes, whereas the BMW literally lives for the cones. It doesn't dig as deep into corners as the BMW, but it's still a confident and agile car to pilot. It also handled nicely, and like the GS300, was very predictable overall. Coming out of a corner and slamming the pedal to the floor was truly exhilarating, but the 545i still was my favorite in any performance aspect. It had more bodyroll than the BMW, but not as much as the Benz. The car I drove was a Black on Black leather with mahogany woodgrain and chrome wheels...and it was gorgeous. I'll get pics up in a bit. Again, taking price into account the GS430 is still one of the finest vehicles available IMO, even though it is 7 years old. The interior is still looking and feeling great, and everything was put in exactly the right place.
3. E500- It seems so odd to me that I chose the Mercedes last in every category they were in, but to me, none of them did anything exceptionally well. The Lexus models were actually more pleasant to drive and throw around road courses, their interiors were nicer, and they were better balanced overall IMO. The E500 was probably my favorite Mercedes overall though. The acceleration was just like the GS430's- smooth, fast, and just a hair behind the BMW's. Around the road course it wasn't as firm as the BMW and floated more in the corners than the GS430. The interior was nice and simple, just like the E320s, and again, I prefer it to the Bimmers. The GS's is just simpler and more user friendly though. Price seemed to be the big determining factor for many of the Mercedes though. The Lexuses were priced at the, or near the, bottom of their classes and still offered the best interiors and performance that was just behind the BMWs for the most part. I could justify dishing out $60K for the 545i because it's such a fantastic car overall, but the E500 just didn't do it for me when the GS430 costs significantly less and performs about the same, and even a bit better in places.
Lastly, My take on SC430 vs. XLR and XK8:
1 (tie) SC430- given the competing models, I found the SC to be the second best looking model there. As much as I like the Art and Science application on the CTS and especially the STS, it just looks dead on the XLR to me. The SC is definitely more curvey and appealing to me. The interior blew the other two away, and again, I'd challenge anyone to truly tell me that they think the XLR's interior is better than the SC430s after sitting in them back to back. Around the road course the SC surprised me a bit because I have read so much about it being nothing but a floaty luxury coupe. The SCs were 2005 models with the new shocks/suspension so I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but the car really drove quite well. Bodyroll was noticeable, but not to a fault and not as bad as the XK8. For straightline performance it tied the XLR for 2nd spot just behind the 545i as fastest car of the day. In the slolam course it was more comfortable than the GS430, but not as firm as the Cadillac. Again considering price, the SC is a hard act to beat.
1. (tie) XLR- They're two cars with different takes on the same idea, and yet they seem so much alike. The XLR was more raw and more performance oriented than the SC. In the turns and in the slolam, the Corvette roots were immediately apparent and the car felt firm and confident, still not as much so as the 545i (although they don't directly compete). The interior was...ok. Not as nice as the SC430's, but nicer and more modern than the XK's. Again, the overall shape is quite bland to me, but some people love it. The XLR is a performance car with some luxury thrown in, whereas the SC is a luxury car with a healthy dose of performance, and that philosophy is apparent on each side. Pricewise, I'd have a hard time dishing out an extra $13K for the Cadillac because to me honestly, it didn't feel justifyable in comparison to the SC. Firmer? Sure. Sportier? Yes. Faster? No. Worth $13K more than the Lexus? Not to me.
2. XK8- Like the S Class, I know this car is outdated and would be spanked from the beginning, so I'm not going to be too mean. The car is still as sexy as ever though, more attractive than the SC and XLR to me. The interior has got to go, and it's certainly not as fast as the other two, nor as firm as even the SC in the corners. It had a good bit of body roll going in certain spots as well. The car became very unhappy in the slolam course, and felt quite unsettled in the corners.
Well there's my analysis, and I surely don't expect anyone to read the whole thing but feel free to pick out certain things and ask me if you want to. After we drove all the cars we went inside and had lunch which consisted of a buffet with salads, breads, dips, some incredible turkey breast, rigatoni, desserts, cheeses and fruits.
At the end of the day, I stood back and wondered how much it must cost them to put on this event in just one location. The inside areas were some of the most lavishly furnished places I have ever been, then considering food, brake pads and gas, ect. This was just Atlanta's, and I think they're doing it in 13 total locations this year. As we were leaving we filled out a response card about the event and then Lexus gave us tote bags, a leather photo album, a united states Atlas with an overview of each state and a 2004 3rd Quarter Lexus Magazine.
It was awesome overall.
-Michael-
The event was incredible, even better than last years. I took my mom's fianceé with me because he's looking for a new car sometime soon and you have to be 21 to drive. Yes, I'm only 17 but they never checked your passes to see your age and I look 21 at least, so I drove all the cars with no problem. They had the entrance area decorated like the Ritz Carlton and signing in and getting passes was a breeze. Once we arrived and signed in we sat through a 5 minute orientation and then they cut us loose! The first part was a gallery of sorts, much like the Lexus display at the autoshow. They had setups explaining VVT-i, the new swiveling headlights, the GX470's KDSS, posters of the LF-S, LF-X, LF-C, new GS, and other artwork stuff, with a SC430 sitting in the middle of the room. Off to the right from that was the "Mark Levinson Room" with an LS430 and LX470, both of which were on and open to sit and play music in. There was also a TV, sound system display, and then the back seats to the LS430 were just sitting there (alone, not connected to a car) like recliners. There was another room dedicated to hybrid technology, and the RX 400h was there, as well as a bare bones chassis with the batteries, engine, power cables, ect to look at.
From there you walked out into the atrium where they had tables and chairs, buffets, and also 5-Star cooking demonstrations by some of the top chefs in Atlanta. From the atrium, you walk outside to the golf area, and the three tracks. They had a silver IS, ES, GS300, GS430, LS430 Sport, LX, RX, GX and SC, all outside together and all in silver which looked pretty cool.
The first track we went to was the SUV one where we drove the RX vs the X3, XC90 and MDX, GX against the X5 4.4i and ML500, and the LX470 against the Escalade and Range Rover.
My take on RX330 vs. MDX vs. XC90 vs. X3
1. RX330- the interior is by far the best of the four, it drives like a sedan and is firm and agile whereas the others, aside from the BMW, have a good bit of body roll and pitch. The interior is just right for me in size and shape. The engine/tranny combo work together quite well. The RX was probably the best overall SUV of the 4 (to me) because it was the smoothest even over bumps and rutts, was firm and confident in the corners and slolam, and finishes it off with a nearly perfect interior and a nice engine. The price is spot-on as well.
2. Volvo XC90- I'm not much for Volvo interiors, but overall the XC was a firm, composed and confident 'ute. It wasn't as firm as the RX and X3 on road, nor as smooth as the RX offroad, but it comes together well to make a nice overall package. The ride is nicer and more controlled than the MDX, and I prefer the interior to the MDX's as well. The engine was a bit sluggish when compared to the others, but certainly more than adequate.
3. Acura MDX- This was by far the biggest disappointment of the group. The interior is stark and downright cheap looking compared to the RX, the wood is fake and certainly looks like it, the bodyroll was the worst of the group, it wasn't as smooth as the RX on road or offroad, and although it has 265HP, it didn't feel any faster than the RX or X3. The interior is spacious and it's definitely attractive from the outside, but those are about the only positive things I can find to say about it.
4. The X3 was smaller than the others, one of the most expensive, unattractive outside, drab and cold inside, the ride was harsh and the mud/rutts were PUNISHING compared to the smoothness of the RX or XC, but it did perform the best around the slolam and in the corners. Strangely enough, the RX honestly felt just about as firm and agile as the X3, but was noticeably smoother.
My take on GX470 vs ML500 vs X5 4.4i
1. GX470- perfect in size, incredible offroad whereas the other two struggle to make it over uneven mud/rocks, interior is nice in size but I don't like the console/shifter layout, the AVS works nicely and you can firm it up noticeably around the corners and slolam with the turn of the ****. The exterior is looking good, but it needs some sort of refresh. They told us there that the 2005 model would get 270HP and 330 lb-ft of torque, as well as an optional sport package. I picked up a 2005 Full line brochure later that confirmed that, so extra power is on the way. It wasn't as quick or agile as the X5 on the on road course, but felt more planted and more stable than the ML500. My favorite of this group, and not just because it's a Lexus. Overall, it's the SUV to beat here, although I do wish they had an Aviator to test as well.
2. X5 4.4i- not much worse than the ML500 offroad, but the interior is much nicer and more user friendly than the M's. It's a pleasure to drive in the on road course and is no where as punishing as the X3. The price is a bit hefty in comparison to what you're getting though. Engine power is perfect and blows the other two away in a straight line.
3. ML500- Plain and simple, the Mercedes doesn't do anything particularly well, is outdated and unattractive and the replacement can't come soon enough. That's sort of harsh, but the truth hurts.
My take on LX470 vs. Range Rover vs. Escalade
1. LX470- The LX is getting long in the tooth, but when it comes to combining all the necessary attributes at a decent price, it's still the 'ute to beat. The only weak point is the engine which is only adequate in power. For it's size it handles well and feels more firmly planted and stable than the RR, which felt extremely wobbly and was "body rolling" all over the on road course. I'm sure the AVS had a good bit to do with that last part though. Some people like the look of the RR's interior, but I prefer the LX's classic, simple, and user-friendly take on luxury over the RR's. The wood and leather are first rate, buttons are clear and easy to use, and the whole design is very user friendly. Off road it actually felt a bit better than the RR, and I'm sure they had the course set up to the LX's advantage. The same thing happened last year where they lined up a bunch of logs with mud over them, on an incline, and the RR has a terrible time of trying to get over it whereas the LX, GX, and even X5 have no trouble.
2. Range Rover- This was probably the least attractive of the three. The exterior looks out of proportion to me, and far too blocky, I also don't like the side profile shot, at all. The front and rear end are cool, but I don't like the rest of the design. The interior materials were first rate, but there are too many shades of grey matched with orange wood, green buttons, ect. The buttons are smaller and more plentiful than in the LX and Escalade, and it would have taken a good bit of time to learn how to work everything whereas you could hop in the other two, crank the AC, turn on the music and get comfortable instantly. Off road it felt great, though not as stable and confident as the LX as I noted before. I'd have a hard time justifying the Range Rover over the LX though, based on price, options and value. It's wobbly onroad though and the body roll gets to be excessive in the corners. Engine power felt best of the three though, despite the Cadillac's advantage on paper.
3, and a distant 3rd, Escalade- Last year when I went to the event I was pretty much disgusted with the Cadillac, and obviously, the vehicle hasn't changed at all. The exterior is fine, but the interior is a complete joke and is completely unacceptable (you Cadillac people can make all the excuses you want, the interior is unacceptable in the face of the competition). I won't go into the off road performance, because it was banging, clunking, tire spinning and scraping more than the car based X5. On road it felt more firm than the RR, but not as composed as the LX. The engine sounds sweet, and fits the size of the SUV nicely. The RR did feel faster though. Not to rag on Cadillac, but it was sort of humorous to see how many people were in line for the Escalade and once they drove it, they got out saying how disappointed they were in comparison to the LX and even the GX.
After the SUV course, we went to the "Luxury Performance" track which included the LS430 Sport and UL models vs. the S430 and 745i, and the ES330 vs. C320 and TL, and GS300 vs. E320 and 530i. This course consisted of two straight aways, 3 sharp curves, slolam, and an accident avoidance thing that had two rotating stuffed animal deer that you had to avoid while you were driving.
My take on LS430 vs. S430 and 745i:
1. LS430 Sport- we only drove the sport model because neither of us care for the ultra-cushy ride of the UL model, and were pleasantly surprised. It's not as firm or fast as the 745i, but it's nicely in between the S class and 7series, definitely firmer than the S430 (which had the 18" AMG wheels and Sport Package as well). There's just a tad more body roll than the 745i, but it's not as bad as the S430, but it's surprisingly firm for a big sedan. The sport package really makes a pretty big difference in ride and handling over the UL and Standard models. The interior was my favorite of the three with grey leather and mahogany woodgrain. Like all of BMW's new interiors, the 745 is stark, cold, uninviting, and cursed with iDrive. EVERYONE who drove the 5 and 7 complained about iDrive and how BMW had managed how to complicate something that had been so easy in their previous models. The S430s interior is outdated and plain, but I know the new model is just around the corner. The back seat in the LS isn't as big as the 745i, but is still nice and has massagers, drink coolers, radio, ect. The LS430 felt just a hair slower than the 745i, but both of them felt worlds above the S430 in acceleration. Again, considering price, it's hard to think about choosing anything but the LS430 here.
2. BMW 745i- If BMW hadn't messed with the interior so badly, it would have been a tie with the LS. It's frusterating to get in a car and not be able to turn down the radio (we learned you have to do it on the steering wheel later) or listen to any radio stations except the pre-set ones. I'm sure theres a way around both of those things, but I wasn't going to sit and worry about it for the 5 minutes I had the car. It corners, accelerates and drives perfectly. Driving the car was absolute heaven, but it's too bad the overall package has been botched with weirdo styling and an overly comlicated interior. The back seat was the biggest of the three, and the headrests on all the seats were veeeery comfortable. The car is certainly expensive though, and it didn't even have some of the options that the LS had and was thousands more expensive.
2. S430- it was the slowest, cushiest, had the most body roll, most out dated interior and average options with a premium pricetag. Again, I know the new model is just around the corner so I'm not going to harp on the car too badly.
My take on GS300 vs. 530i and E320:
1. 530i- I really like the way the 5 series looks, and it performed flawlessly. It was the fastest of the three, cornered the best, handled the nicest, and had a decent interior. iDrive is the only downfall the car has IMO. Yes it's a bit expensive, but you get what you pay for. Driving the 530i around the road course was a complete pleasure as all the BMW's fit me like gloves and seemed to know exactly how I think a sedan of this caliber should perform.
2. GS300- I can't believe that I chose it over the E320, but Andy (mom's fianceé) and I both were a bit disappointed with the Mercedes. The GS300 isn't as hard edged as the 530i and is definitely a bit cushier, but it's predictable and drives the same way all the time. It was noticeably the slowest of the three, but around the corners it performed admirably. The 530i was definitely my choice overall and for driving, but I like the GS300's interior the best. Thankfully the new model is just around the corner, but considering price, even at 7 years old the GS is still a very competitive car.
3. Mercedes E320- I think the E320 was the weirdest car I drove all day yesterday. The chassis gets spongy in some areas, and uncomfortable tight in others. It's like it almost tries to be as hard edged as the Bimmer but also as smooth as the Lexus. On straight aways it got floaty for some reason and then got REALLY firm in the corners and in the end, it was just awkward to drive. It's not as firm as the 530i, nor as smooth as the GS, but it's not as well balanced a car when compared to either of them. The 530i is definitely the most balanced overall, but the GS300 is always predictable and you know how to drive it. The E320 was sort of tricky. I liked the interior and exterior though, and the interior was much better than the 530i.
My take on ES330 vs. TL and C320
1. TL- Considering how much talk there is about torque steer and such with this car, I want you all to know that I pushed it as hard as I possible could, harder than ANY other car all day long and I never got it to pull, push, or even twitch. Acceleration wise, it completely stomped the ES, C320, GS300, E320 and even the 530i. It was a 5AT and still wicked fast. The handling and steering are phenominal, and I kid you not, I think the car drives almost as nicely as the 530i. It's firm and planted, fast and confident, and you'd never know it was FWD...ever. The 6SPD may be a different story, but the automatic didn't let any torque steer through. The interior is nice, but not as rich and luxurious as the ES. The seats are awesome though! Considering the price, I think the TL is the car to beat under $40K right now.
2. ES330- I got in the car and instantly switched the AVS to "sport", so take my review from that point of view. The interior was easily the best at the whole event in terms of colors, layout, user friendliness, and ergonomics, and I mean than even considering the LS430 and SC430. The LS is nice and has a few more features, but the ES's interior is absolutely phenominal and I like the waterfall center stack as opposed to the LS's design. The seats are wonderful, everything is right in front of you and easy to use, I could go on and on. With the dial on Sport, the ES was one of the more surprising cars I drove. It's not as hard edged as the TL, but not as soft as the GS300 or C320. It's comparable to the LS430 sport really...it's firm and confident, you always know what to expect, but it never gets as hard as the TL or the Bimmers. For overall driving dynamic, the TL was my favorite of these three, but the ES deserves more credibility than it gets and is actually firmer than the C320 with the dial on sport.
3. C320- Much like the other Mercedes, it didn't do anything particularly well. It wasn't as hard edged or fast as the TL, and even the ES was firmer and had a better interior. Overall though, I have to say that I think the C320 is a very well rounded car. It sits nicely on the line between luxury and sport, and is pleasing to drive all around. The interior could use some work, and the exterior is starting to age. The cars real weakpoint though is price, especially compared to the less expensive TL that drives better and has more features.
After the "Luxury Performance Track" we went over to the "Sport Performance Track" to drive the IS300 vs. the 330i and G35, the GS430 vs the 545i and E500, and the SC430 against the XK8 and XLR. This track consisted of a straight away that leads into a slolam thing then tight turn, another straight away, tight turn, then an "accident avoidance" thing that involved a guy standing behind a huge fake tree, throwing foam blocks in front of your car to swerve and avoid.
My take on IS300 vs. 330i and G35
1 (tie). IS300- For the price, the IS really is the car to beat here IMO. Maybe it's because I'm 17, but the IS is the most appealing car here to me, and it also out drove the drivers car IMO. The interior, while not as attractive as the TL or C320, is more modern looking than the 330i, and the G35's is downright unacceptable. Around the track the IS instantly gives you a feeling of confidence and you feel 100% bolted to the ground. It wasn't as fast as the other two, but as far as a pure drivers car I think it's hard to beat in terms of handling, steering, and how it all together "drives". I love the exterior, but the interior like I said is modern, but still could be much better.
1 (tie). BMW 330i- It's the oldest car here, was the benchmark for the class for a long time, and to many people, it still is. It drives almost as nicely as the IS but isn't quite as hard edged. It has more power though and it feels awesome around the track in general. The exterior will always age well and you can tell that the interior was great back when the car is new. As old as it is, the 330i is still one of the best overall vehicles on the market. It can be a bit pricey though, sometimes $10K or so more than the IS, which is why I called a tie.
2. G35- it had been a while since I was in a G35, and I can tell you I was still disappointed all over again with the interior. The interior materials were only a hair better than a Toyota Echo. The design is boring and ugly to look at, but still user friendly I guess. The G35's 3.5L V6 has raw power, whereas the TL's 3.2L unit felt more sophisticated and polished. They're very different powerplants, but the two inline sixes were probably my favorite, followed by the 3.2L in the TL, and then the G35's. One isn't necessarily better than the other, they're all just very different. In the corners, the G doesn't feel as buckled down as the IS, 330i or even TL (although it wasn't on this course to be driven back to back against), but on the straight away it seriously rips ahead. If Infiniti had made the interior more fitting for a $30K car as opposed to a $10K one, I think I would have been more accepting of the car as a whole.
My take on GS430 vs. 545i and E500
1. 545i- I almost didn't get a chance to drive the 545i, but I'm so glad that I did. In terms of power, handling, cornering, and driving demeanor, this is the car to beat right now. It rips off the starting line, digs deep into corners, lives for the slolam course, corners like it's on rails, and holds the driver to the road like nothing else. Yes it's expensive, but it is one fine car to drive. The interior was alright, but again, plagued with iDrive which is my ONLY complaint.
2. GS430- For being 25HP short of the BMW, it posted acceleration times that were only 1-2MPH behind the 545i. It's not as firm as the Bimmer overall, and in the slolam course the car will become increasingly unsettled if you don't apply the brakes, whereas the BMW literally lives for the cones. It doesn't dig as deep into corners as the BMW, but it's still a confident and agile car to pilot. It also handled nicely, and like the GS300, was very predictable overall. Coming out of a corner and slamming the pedal to the floor was truly exhilarating, but the 545i still was my favorite in any performance aspect. It had more bodyroll than the BMW, but not as much as the Benz. The car I drove was a Black on Black leather with mahogany woodgrain and chrome wheels...and it was gorgeous. I'll get pics up in a bit. Again, taking price into account the GS430 is still one of the finest vehicles available IMO, even though it is 7 years old. The interior is still looking and feeling great, and everything was put in exactly the right place.
3. E500- It seems so odd to me that I chose the Mercedes last in every category they were in, but to me, none of them did anything exceptionally well. The Lexus models were actually more pleasant to drive and throw around road courses, their interiors were nicer, and they were better balanced overall IMO. The E500 was probably my favorite Mercedes overall though. The acceleration was just like the GS430's- smooth, fast, and just a hair behind the BMW's. Around the road course it wasn't as firm as the BMW and floated more in the corners than the GS430. The interior was nice and simple, just like the E320s, and again, I prefer it to the Bimmers. The GS's is just simpler and more user friendly though. Price seemed to be the big determining factor for many of the Mercedes though. The Lexuses were priced at the, or near the, bottom of their classes and still offered the best interiors and performance that was just behind the BMWs for the most part. I could justify dishing out $60K for the 545i because it's such a fantastic car overall, but the E500 just didn't do it for me when the GS430 costs significantly less and performs about the same, and even a bit better in places.
Lastly, My take on SC430 vs. XLR and XK8:
1 (tie) SC430- given the competing models, I found the SC to be the second best looking model there. As much as I like the Art and Science application on the CTS and especially the STS, it just looks dead on the XLR to me. The SC is definitely more curvey and appealing to me. The interior blew the other two away, and again, I'd challenge anyone to truly tell me that they think the XLR's interior is better than the SC430s after sitting in them back to back. Around the road course the SC surprised me a bit because I have read so much about it being nothing but a floaty luxury coupe. The SCs were 2005 models with the new shocks/suspension so I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but the car really drove quite well. Bodyroll was noticeable, but not to a fault and not as bad as the XK8. For straightline performance it tied the XLR for 2nd spot just behind the 545i as fastest car of the day. In the slolam course it was more comfortable than the GS430, but not as firm as the Cadillac. Again considering price, the SC is a hard act to beat.
1. (tie) XLR- They're two cars with different takes on the same idea, and yet they seem so much alike. The XLR was more raw and more performance oriented than the SC. In the turns and in the slolam, the Corvette roots were immediately apparent and the car felt firm and confident, still not as much so as the 545i (although they don't directly compete). The interior was...ok. Not as nice as the SC430's, but nicer and more modern than the XK's. Again, the overall shape is quite bland to me, but some people love it. The XLR is a performance car with some luxury thrown in, whereas the SC is a luxury car with a healthy dose of performance, and that philosophy is apparent on each side. Pricewise, I'd have a hard time dishing out an extra $13K for the Cadillac because to me honestly, it didn't feel justifyable in comparison to the SC. Firmer? Sure. Sportier? Yes. Faster? No. Worth $13K more than the Lexus? Not to me.
2. XK8- Like the S Class, I know this car is outdated and would be spanked from the beginning, so I'm not going to be too mean. The car is still as sexy as ever though, more attractive than the SC and XLR to me. The interior has got to go, and it's certainly not as fast as the other two, nor as firm as even the SC in the corners. It had a good bit of body roll going in certain spots as well. The car became very unhappy in the slolam course, and felt quite unsettled in the corners.
Well there's my analysis, and I surely don't expect anyone to read the whole thing but feel free to pick out certain things and ask me if you want to. After we drove all the cars we went inside and had lunch which consisted of a buffet with salads, breads, dips, some incredible turkey breast, rigatoni, desserts, cheeses and fruits.
At the end of the day, I stood back and wondered how much it must cost them to put on this event in just one location. The inside areas were some of the most lavishly furnished places I have ever been, then considering food, brake pads and gas, ect. This was just Atlanta's, and I think they're doing it in 13 total locations this year. As we were leaving we filled out a response card about the event and then Lexus gave us tote bags, a leather photo album, a united states Atlas with an overview of each state and a 2004 3rd Quarter Lexus Magazine.
It was awesome overall.
-Michael-
Last edited by MPLexus301; 10-11-04 at 01:46 PM.
10-11-04, 02:52 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by MPLexus301
My review, my opinions in case any of you care:
My review, my opinions in case any of you care:
I basically agree with everything you said.I only wish I went to the event early enough in the day so that I could have testdriven all the cars as you did too.
10-12-04, 05:12 PM
#70
Great reviews! I agree with you on almost everything. In NJ the ES 330 was in the same driving group as the BMW 745, etc. I too tried to push the TL and found it very capable. I tried hard turns, etc. and was very pleasantly surprised. I've driven many ES's lately and they are greatly improved over the ES 300, but the TL handled better. I also think the wood looks fake on the ES, even though it is supposed to be real.
10-16-04, 07:30 PM
#71
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Just went to the event at FedEx Field today. Very cool, better than the Love Mercedes Tour for sure. Buffet was great, displays were cool, and, oh yeah, driving was fun, too. 
I didn't test drive that many vehicles, but of the ones I did, I thought the XLR was the best. Definitely the best handling car of those that I drove. Jaguar XK8 was floaty, Lexus SC430 was even worse. My legs hurt afterwards because I had to keep bracing myself against either the door or the center console as I took corners.
Only a couple of lame things. One, as I was driving the BMW 330i, the dude in the minivan drove next to me and told me to slow down. Two, I kept catching up to driver in front of me and then had to slow waaaay down to give them some space.
Overall, great experience. Wish I had more time to stay there so I could have test driven everything, but there's always next time.
I didn't test drive that many vehicles, but of the ones I did, I thought the XLR was the best. Definitely the best handling car of those that I drove. Jaguar XK8 was floaty, Lexus SC430 was even worse. My legs hurt afterwards because I had to keep bracing myself against either the door or the center console as I took corners.
Only a couple of lame things. One, as I was driving the BMW 330i, the dude in the minivan drove next to me and told me to slow down.
Two, I kept catching up to driver in front of me and then had to slow waaaay down to give them some space.Overall, great experience. Wish I had more time to stay there so I could have test driven everything, but there's always next time.
10-17-04, 10:27 AM
#72
Originally posted by Incendiary
Just went to the event at FedEx Field today. Very cool, better than the Love Mercedes Tour for sure. Buffet was great, displays were cool, and, oh yeah, driving was fun, too.
I didn't test drive that many vehicles, but of the ones I did, I thought the XLR was the best. Definitely the best handling car of those that I drove. Jaguar XK8 was floaty, Lexus SC430 was even worse. My legs hurt afterwards because I had to keep bracing myself against either the door or the center console as I took corners.
Only a couple of lame things. One, as I was driving the BMW 330i, the dude in the minivan drove next to me and told me to slow down. Two, I kept catching up to driver in front of me and then had to slow waaaay down to give them some space.
Overall, great experience. Wish I had more time to stay there so I could have test driven everything, but there's always next time.
Just went to the event at FedEx Field today. Very cool, better than the Love Mercedes Tour for sure. Buffet was great, displays were cool, and, oh yeah, driving was fun, too.
I didn't test drive that many vehicles, but of the ones I did, I thought the XLR was the best. Definitely the best handling car of those that I drove. Jaguar XK8 was floaty, Lexus SC430 was even worse. My legs hurt afterwards because I had to keep bracing myself against either the door or the center console as I took corners.
Only a couple of lame things. One, as I was driving the BMW 330i, the dude in the minivan drove next to me and told me to slow down.
Two, I kept catching up to driver in front of me and then had to slow waaaay down to give them some space.Overall, great experience. Wish I had more time to stay there so I could have test driven everything, but there's always next time.
and i think the guy must had really bad judgement on letting cars start then. during my day, i could never catch up with the cars in the front, too far away (well maybe i drive suck
)
10-17-04, 11:33 PM
#73
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Originally posted by rominl
tell the dude in the van to shut up, it's a driving event, there is "no" speed limit, and you are allowed to drive how you want. i didn't listen to them at all even when they indicate me to slow down. ridiculous.
and i think the guy must had really bad judgement on letting cars start then. during my day, i could never catch up with the cars in the front, too far away (well maybe i drive suck)
tell the dude in the van to shut up, it's a driving event, there is "no" speed limit, and you are allowed to drive how you want. i didn't listen to them at all even when they indicate me to slow down. ridiculous.
and i think the guy must had really bad judgement on letting cars start then. during my day, i could never catch up with the cars in the front, too far away (well maybe i drive suck
)
10-18-04, 12:02 AM
#74
Originally posted by Incendiary
Well, I would have, but this was right after one of the guys threatened to kick anyone out who "drove beyond the cars' limits," whatever that means...
Well, I would have, but this was right after one of the guys threatened to kick anyone out who "drove beyond the cars' limits," whatever that means...
honestly i don't think most people can really drive to close to the limit of what the cars are capable of anyway
for example, the country where i am from, the best of the best drivers hired to drive all those VIP people (president, etc..), they need to be trained to gun the s600 from 0 - 100 asap, brake very hard, and then do a very quick u turn and gun right the way. i am not sure most people can do that
10-18-04, 01:49 AM
#75
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Originally posted by rominl
hahhaa, you should have gotten out of the car, and ask him to first demo what's the definition of "beyond the limit"
honestly i don't think most people can really drive to close to the limit of what the cars are capable of anyway
for example, the country where i am from, the best of the best drivers hired to drive all those VIP people (president, etc..), they need to be trained to gun the s600 from 0 - 100 asap, brake very hard, and then do a very quick u turn and gun right the way. i am not sure most people can do that
hahhaa, you should have gotten out of the car, and ask him to first demo what's the definition of "beyond the limit"
honestly i don't think most people can really drive to close to the limit of what the cars are capable of anyway
for example, the country where i am from, the best of the best drivers hired to drive all those VIP people (president, etc..), they need to be trained to gun the s600 from 0 - 100 asap, brake very hard, and then do a very quick u turn and gun right the way. i am not sure most people can do that
