VW CEO calls their own Phaeton a mistake! (pics pg 2 of super verson)
07-18-04, 05:13 PM
#31
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Originally posted by DGOT20s
1) why would VW chase the same customers as Audi? I hve heard the product projections that state the VW is intended to combat M/B, while the Audi is to combat BMW but who are we kidding here? I think they conjured up that malaky to squeak out another car on that platform (as if a premium Audi and a Bently were not enough).
2) I have never seen a Passat W8 on the street, I have seen 2-3 Phaetons though. Like I always say, who wakes up and says.........."Hmm, time for a new car, do I go for the M/B, the BMW, the Lexus or the............VOLKSWAGEN??!! lol
1) why would VW chase the same customers as Audi? I hve heard the product projections that state the VW is intended to combat M/B, while the Audi is to combat BMW but who are we kidding here? I think they conjured up that malaky to squeak out another car on that platform (as if a premium Audi and a Bently were not enough).
2) I have never seen a Passat W8 on the street, I have seen 2-3 Phaetons though. Like I always say, who wakes up and says.........."Hmm, time for a new car, do I go for the M/B, the BMW, the Lexus or the............VOLKSWAGEN??!! lol
2) I've never seen a Phaeton, but I have seen 1 old W8 passat - looked hideous.
07-18-04, 06:17 PM
#32
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Originally posted by DGOT20s
This is the inherent flaw with the Phaeton and to a lesser degree the Passat W8. I have said many times before, why would VW chase the same customers as Audi? I hve heard the product projections that state the VW is intended to combat M/B, while the Audi is to combat BMW but who are we kidding here? I think they conjured up that malaky to squeak out another car on that platform (as if a premium Audi and a Bently were not enough).
As I have said time and time again, Americans are WAYYY to image conscience to purchase a VW for the same price as a MB/BMW/Lexus/Audi, etc. Even Audi is just getting to the point where it is viewed as a direct competitor for MB, and BMW. I went to Waterfest this weekend and was talking to a few Audi salesman and they said the Phaeton is not a problem for them (meaning they are not selling very well). There is one point that does not come up very often, what dealer channel does Volkswagen have to accomodate a Premium Ultra Lux Customer?? What do they say, concierge services for Phaeton owners only, others scram??
I have never seen a Passat W8 on the street, I have seen 2-3 Phaetons though. Like I always say, who wakes up and says.........."Hmm, time for a new car, do I go for the M/B, the BMW, the Lexus or the............VOLKSWAGEN??!! lol
This is the inherent flaw with the Phaeton and to a lesser degree the Passat W8. I have said many times before, why would VW chase the same customers as Audi? I hve heard the product projections that state the VW is intended to combat M/B, while the Audi is to combat BMW but who are we kidding here? I think they conjured up that malaky to squeak out another car on that platform (as if a premium Audi and a Bently were not enough).
As I have said time and time again, Americans are WAYYY to image conscience to purchase a VW for the same price as a MB/BMW/Lexus/Audi, etc. Even Audi is just getting to the point where it is viewed as a direct competitor for MB, and BMW. I went to Waterfest this weekend and was talking to a few Audi salesman and they said the Phaeton is not a problem for them (meaning they are not selling very well). There is one point that does not come up very often, what dealer channel does Volkswagen have to accomodate a Premium Ultra Lux Customer?? What do they say, concierge services for Phaeton owners only, others scram??
I have never seen a Passat W8 on the street, I have seen 2-3 Phaetons though. Like I always say, who wakes up and says.........."Hmm, time for a new car, do I go for the M/B, the BMW, the Lexus or the............VOLKSWAGEN??!! lol
Well said.
It's true that Audi's image of prestige is just finally coming around but still lags behind MB, BMW, and
Lexus. This is despite the fact that Audi's are often as good or perhaps even better in many areas. So if Audi is still trying to establish their Luxury image to the same level as the top 3 mentioned brands, what makes VW think they can sell a model that costs more than the most expensive Lexus? Who's calling the shot's in their marketing dept.?
07-19-04, 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by 0l33l
1) Why does Toyota chase the same customers as Lexus (with the avalon)? Its because its their flagship car.
1) Why does Toyota chase the same customers as Lexus (with the avalon)? Its because its their flagship car.
07-19-04, 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by JLSC4
Well said.
It's true that Audi's image of prestige is just finally coming around but still lags behind MB, BMW, and
Lexus. This is despite the fact that Audi's are often as good or perhaps even better in many areas.
Well said.
It's true that Audi's image of prestige is just finally coming around but still lags behind MB, BMW, and
Lexus. This is despite the fact that Audi's are often as good or perhaps even better in many areas.
Last edited by D2-AUTOSPORT; 07-19-04 at 05:50 AM.
07-19-04, 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by DGOT20s
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. The Avalon is a very nice car and its the best Toyota has to offer, but it does not cost 70k like a LS430. That was my point about the Phaeton and A8, they are in the same price range (give or take 5-10k). Now to further clarify, if Toyota introduced a 65k Avalon, then they would be just as mis-guided as Volkswagen.
I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. The Avalon is a very nice car and its the best Toyota has to offer, but it does not cost 70k like a LS430. That was my point about the Phaeton and A8, they are in the same price range (give or take 5-10k). Now to further clarify, if Toyota introduced a 65k Avalon, then they would be just as mis-guided as Volkswagen.
I never said that toyota chases the LS430 crowd, bot the Avalon does bite into some ES330 sales.
07-20-04, 10:34 AM
#36
I finally saw one yesterday for the berry first time. First thought? Hey, that's a pretty nice Passat-I'm wasn't being sarcastic. When I got closer, I finally saw the "Phae....ton." When you're up in that price range, people want to get their $$$ worth, prestige included-maybe worry about reliability later. We're going to beat this to death but why buy the VW when you have MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus in the comparable price range? Oh, and shouldn't Audi change the A8 to A12 or something else witht their V12?
07-20-04, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by 0l33l
I also have to respectuflly disagree I never said that toyota chases the LS430 crowd, bot the Avalon does bite into some ES330 sales.
I also have to respectuflly disagree
I never said that toyota chases the LS430 crowd, bot the Avalon does bite into some ES330 sales.
The Phaeton implies that VOLKSWAGEN is just as good as a AUDI, which is almost a oxymoron in the automobile marketing arena!
07-20-04, 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by DGOT20s
Ok you just made my point, the Phaeton is a direct competitor with the Audi FLAGSHIP model (the A8), whereas the Avalon may impinge on the ENTRY LEVEL Lexus ES. Although they may compete somewhat, a TOYOTA is not challenging the model that carries a large part of the equity of its luxury division LEXUS (the LS).
The Phaeton implies that VOLKSWAGEN is just as good as a AUDI, which is almost a oxymoron in the automobile marketing arena!
Ok you just made my point, the Phaeton is a direct competitor with the Audi FLAGSHIP model (the A8), whereas the Avalon may impinge on the ENTRY LEVEL Lexus ES. Although they may compete somewhat, a TOYOTA is not challenging the model that carries a large part of the equity of its luxury division LEXUS (the LS).
The Phaeton implies that VOLKSWAGEN is just as good as a AUDI, which is almost a oxymoron in the automobile marketing arena!
07-20-04, 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by DGOT20s
The Phaeton implies that VOLKSWAGEN is just as good as a AUDI, which is almost a oxymoron in
the automobile marketing arena!
The Phaeton implies that VOLKSWAGEN is just as good as a AUDI, which is almost a oxymoron in
the automobile marketing arena!
The funny thing is, is that the Phaeton is actually better than the whole Audi line aside from the A8.
A phaeton W12 costs 3 times as much as an A4! What does this do for Audi's image? VW was
so caught up in improving their image that they forgot about the reason why their Audi division even
exists.
07-20-04, 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by JLSC4
Good point.
The funny thing is, is that the Phaeton is actually better than the whole Audi line aside from the A8.
A phaeton W12 costs 3 times as much as an A4! What does this do for Audi's image? VW was
so caught up in improving their image that they forgot about the reason why their Audi division even
exists.
Good point.
The funny thing is, is that the Phaeton is actually better than the whole Audi line aside from the A8.
A phaeton W12 costs 3 times as much as an A4! What does this do for Audi's image? VW was
so caught up in improving their image that they forgot about the reason why their Audi division even
exists.
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