98Nav400

Lex; I have to love your dedication, even if I disagree with you slightly.

My father recently purchased a new TL w/Nav. He paid ~$33k out the door. It is packed with tech. features. The interior is nice and the Nav. Screen is huge but sits much higher in the dash than mine does in the GS. The interior is excellent but definitely tuned to sport whereas my GS is tuned toward luxury more.

I have put some miles on his car. The front drive is noticeable, but something that I adjusted to pretty quickly. Obviously, turning a corner and romping on the gas does provide some torque steer that you should be ready for but the flip side of that is doing same in my car either the computers stop all progress, or if turned off big brother I end up being a one wheel wonder---smoking one tire to shreds while going nowhere fast. The suspension feels pretty good stock again sportier, while mine is tuned towards luxury.

Dependability; obviously Lexus is at the top. That being said, I am not too concerned about the Acura, excluding the tranny problems they have had--thankfully they have a good warranty. Its not like we are talking about a Land Rover, or Jag. All things considered they build a good product that should have a long life.


Again, we are talking stock versus stock here. It’s not fair to start talking about a modded GS versus a stock TL. With about $3,000 (Ltuned susp/Torque Converter/LSD) the GS is much more sporty that stock, but then you have to allow the TL to be modded as well...

MSRP for the TL loaded ~$35k
MSRP for the GS loaded~ $55k

Would I trade my GS400 for his TL--probably not. Do I think his car is pretty nice and a GREAT value--absolutely. If I had to buy new, I would probably go with the TL over the GS since the $20k price difference is a lot of money in my world..

agreziv

the TL is a great choice.. but it surprises me that the new models have the same tranny problem... I've owned hondas/acuras all my life, and it surprises me because hondas/acuras are reliable... then I ask myself whats going on? I mean compared to all other car companies there still considered one of the most reliable car companies out there.

LexFather

1 tranny re-call thread for the new 04 TL (1 of many)

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86227


1 of many lemon law threads on the 04 TL

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86336
If you got tons of time on your hands here is their problems STICKEY!. Take a couple days of work, its 17 pages long
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73969

Known issues / fix / dealer or factory solution:
[URLs below link to other posts, the topics are addressed in later pages of this thread as well]

*Creaking headliner near dash / fix with foam under headliner / replace broken mounting clips

*Wrinkling leather in DS seat, leather looses its shape (butt prints) / unknown / unknown

*SES light on with seeming misfire / unknown / replace crank sensor OR install updated software. http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...&threadid=65829

*Vibration at 55+mph / unknown / Two independent issues here: (i)suggested cold flatspotting of stock tires; (ii) auto transmission programming or TCC solenoid.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration (discusses both)
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...light=vibration
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=67438 (on tires)

*Jumps out of 1st gear in early VIN MT cars / small teeth on 1st gear out of allowed tolerances / replace gear
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=4

*Seat memory resets unpredictably / unknown / unknown
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=4
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=67251
FIX available:http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showt...2&pagenumber=1

* Another summary of the small fit and finish items can be found at:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...30&pagenumber=7

I am not making this up. I am posting links. I will state up front, the TL has "percieved" value and a great amount of features. CLEARLY it comes at a cost with quality.
On top of that, the dealer service is a a little better than Hondas.

I ask this. If a Lexus or an Infiniti had these SAME issues would I consider. Hell no. No way in hell I am spending 35k on a car this poorly built. I'll take my chance with an Chrysler or BMW or so.

And Acura just scored a 117 on JD Power where the industry average is 119. The older Acuras are just better built.

agreziv

I'm assuming that its because most of the crap thats happening, is these are american built acuras.. I mean look at the RL, and the TSX those are built like a rock... us americans are lazy asses... my 93 acura legend was great to me... japan quality

doug_999

When the Accord started being produced here, Honda did a tear down of a car built in Japan and one built here. The one built here in the US was superior.

I believe these issues are because the TL is a first year car with far more technology than most cars. As we move into more and more gizmos, we will see more of this.

....and don't think Toyota is immune to it either. Last I checked, the Buick Century was the highest ranked midsize car for initial quality. Not too much technology in that baby.

98Nav400

I consider the tranny issue to be a big problem. I am amazed that they didn't figure it out from the 2nd generation problems.

The rest of the things mentioned I would put in the: "Gold ***** Theory"---which basically says what I have is Gold and what you have is *****.

My car has all of the "standard" GS problems:
* Rattling Sunroof Cover
* Condensation in one HID Headlight
* Tires that need to be balance 2 times a year or I get a vibration as well

I think the biggest problem is with Acura is their Service Department. I can tell you from experience they are no where near the quality of Lexus. There unwillingness to fix simple problems correctly the first time is the reason that board gets bogged down with build quality problems. I have seen similar thread on this board, though not as consistent, but the the problems get dealt with quickly and correctly the first time. That quality is not free as we know; get out of warranty and that Lexus service gets really expensive. On a recent trip I had a taillight bulb burn out; I saw a dealership and got it replaced---$49 but I did get two free chocolates...

I am a huge Lexus fan, and think that the quality and dependability of their cars is unbelievable. I hope to never leave. I think the new TL is not perfect, but I do not beleive its near as bad as you are inferring. My fathers car has 11k on it with 0 problems so far; hopefully it stays that way.

rogers2

Dam Sick you're really laying down on the new TL. I think Acura do have a transmission problem but I think all those other posts are a wastes.

VSsc400

iTrader: (1)

my sister has an 03 and my other friend has the 04.
the 04 need a new tranny. My sister has not had any problems yet.
i think they look good IMO

rominl

iTrader: (4)

actually, i believe RL is made in the US or so i heard? and the TSX, it's made in europe?

Gojirra99

The RL is made in Japan, & while the TSX has the body style of the Euro Accord, those we get here are made in Japan.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

oh, very intereting, i stand corrected

Xenthar

The TL is a great car..beautiful inside and out. The problems happening are problems that come with a first year production car. Acura has addressed the problems and thats all that matters.

Xenthar

you must have alot of time on yours hands....

LexFather

Anyone with an I.Q of a doormat can take 2 mintues at TL .com and see every 3 threads, there is a:
rattle
falling headliner
tranny issue
paint peeling or cheap
leather cracking
rattle
etc etc etc. Compared to the IS and G35, it's pathetic.

SecPole14

I think I just peed my pants.

Are you some sort of Acura troll? Or do you just live in denial? The TL is a piece of junk. Period. Acura has not addressed the problems. And it doesn't look like they will. Problems like these are the result of poor engineering, and poor engineering can't usually be fixed at the Acura dealership. The only things that Acura claims it has had going for itself are A.) "Luxury and Value" and B.) Quality. The former is non-existant, and the latter has been fading fast.

Open your eyes.