Acura Tl
07-14-04, 06:29 AM
#31
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wantAnewLex,
Your arguments are always so compelling. "Acuras are crap!!!" Or, in another thread, you simply say, "Yes they do!!" or "No they don't!!!" I thought this was a forum to talk about all cars objectively. Xenthar and Sick at least use rational explanations for their opinions. Someone saying they think an Acura or Infiniti is a better car I thought was okay in the Car Chat forum. I thought that was its purpose. Someone earlier mentioned the Gold S*** situation in this forum. That's what Club Lexus forums have become.
I've emailed Dave GS4 (never get a response) about this very thing. Club Lexus has turned into nothing but an area to verbally assault anyone who has a different opinion than "Lexus is best". I have owned several great Lexus vehicles and they were fantastic, but there are other cars that are as good or better depending on the needs of the person buying it.
Acura is a great car company. The new RL WILL get the attention of Lexus buyers. It is going to be fantastic. Acura was the first luxury Japanese marque. The Legend was "legendary" the way it showed Europeans that the Japanese could build a luxury performance sedan. Acura went head to head with Ferrari with the NSX and won. By the way, if an ES or LS cost $90k new, it would still be only worth about 5-10% of that in 13 years compared to the NSX at 50% of new purchase price. Sorry to burst your bubble there. It has nothing to do with initial price, it has everything to do with the fact that they hold their value. Lexus has yet to build a premier sports car of that caliber. Lexus has had many notable moments as well. I just don't think because you own either car, you suddenly can call everything else crap with no foundation or credible data. No one's flamed the Subaru Forrester yet, so why don't you try being more objective and less of a PIA!!! Go ahead with your reply. It will be something like, "You suck!!!!"
Your arguments are always so compelling. "Acuras are crap!!!" Or, in another thread, you simply say, "Yes they do!!" or "No they don't!!!" I thought this was a forum to talk about all cars objectively. Xenthar and Sick at least use rational explanations for their opinions. Someone saying they think an Acura or Infiniti is a better car I thought was okay in the Car Chat forum. I thought that was its purpose. Someone earlier mentioned the Gold S*** situation in this forum. That's what Club Lexus forums have become.
I've emailed Dave GS4 (never get a response) about this very thing. Club Lexus has turned into nothing but an area to verbally assault anyone who has a different opinion than "Lexus is best". I have owned several great Lexus vehicles and they were fantastic, but there are other cars that are as good or better depending on the needs of the person buying it.
Acura is a great car company. The new RL WILL get the attention of Lexus buyers. It is going to be fantastic. Acura was the first luxury Japanese marque. The Legend was "legendary" the way it showed Europeans that the Japanese could build a luxury performance sedan. Acura went head to head with Ferrari with the NSX and won. By the way, if an ES or LS cost $90k new, it would still be only worth about 5-10% of that in 13 years compared to the NSX at 50% of new purchase price. Sorry to burst your bubble there. It has nothing to do with initial price, it has everything to do with the fact that they hold their value. Lexus has yet to build a premier sports car of that caliber. Lexus has had many notable moments as well. I just don't think because you own either car, you suddenly can call everything else crap with no foundation or credible data. No one's flamed the Subaru Forrester yet, so why don't you try being more objective and less of a PIA!!! Go ahead with your reply. It will be something like, "You suck!!!!"
07-14-04, 07:02 AM
#32
Racer
Dam, that's a pretty bold statement for a person that's not drive a luxury vehicle.
All and all I think the TL is a great buy. I recently had a chance to test drive a TL for a week while my CL was in the shop and I must say the car is miles ahead of my wife’s 2001 gs300 technology/performance wise.
I know the first year is going to have minor problems.
I respect Sick for his views and I must say he does rep the Lexus forum very well. Despite his links Imo basically there is no car in the Acura TL class that can touch its bargain and features.
But recently every time someone mention the word Acura around here people go crazy.
I didn't know Lexus owners hate Acura cars so much. I guess on every forum I must defend Acura and Lexus cars because I own both.
All and all I think the TL is a great buy. I recently had a chance to test drive a TL for a week while my CL was in the shop and I must say the car is miles ahead of my wife’s 2001 gs300 technology/performance wise.
I know the first year is going to have minor problems.
I respect Sick for his views and I must say he does rep the Lexus forum very well. Despite his links Imo basically there is no car in the Acura TL class that can touch its bargain and features.
But recently every time someone mention the word Acura around here people go crazy.
I didn't know Lexus owners hate Acura cars so much. I guess on every forum I must defend Acura and Lexus cars because I own both.
Last edited by rogers2; 07-14-04 at 07:06 AM.
07-14-04, 07:05 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by doug_999
[ Last I checked, the Buick Century was the highest ranked midsize car for initial quality. Not too much technology in that baby. [/B]
[ Last I checked, the Buick Century was the highest ranked midsize car for initial quality. Not too much technology in that baby. [/B]
Not too much technology DRIVING them, either.
07-14-04, 07:16 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Doc C, if you look at my long record of posts, you'll see that I'm not part of the "only Lexus" crowd. I've repeatedly praised many Subaru products as having the best inexpensive AWD system on the market, and Hyundai for its astounding improvement in quality and warranty protection in the last 5 years, and Kia for more or less the same reasons. The only cars I have really panned are the Chris Bangle BMW's for their unnecessarily quirky designs and the poor quality of many M-B products, because they are ripping off the consumer. When you got your NSX I was very careful to list both the plusses and minusses of that car as I saw it.
By the way, how is the NSX doing?....you are one of the few people in the forum outside of Dave GS4's girl friens who has one.
By the way, how is the NSX doing?....you are one of the few people in the forum outside of Dave GS4's girl friens who has one.
07-14-04, 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by wantAnewLex
I think I just peed my pants.
Are you some sort of Acura troll? Or do you just live in denial? The TL is a piece of junk. Period. Acura has not addressed the problems. And it doesn't look like they will. Problems like these are the result of poor engineering, and poor engineering can't usually be fixed at the Acura dealership. The only things that Acura claims it has had going for itself are A.) "Luxury and Value" and B.) Quality. The former is non-existant, and the latter has been fading fast.
Open your eyes.
I think I just peed my pants.
Are you some sort of Acura troll? Or do you just live in denial? The TL is a piece of junk. Period. Acura has not addressed the problems. And it doesn't look like they will. Problems like these are the result of poor engineering, and poor engineering can't usually be fixed at the Acura dealership. The only things that Acura claims it has had going for itself are A.) "Luxury and Value" and B.) Quality. The former is non-existant, and the latter has been fading fast.
Open your eyes.
Last edited by Xenthar; 07-14-04 at 08:42 AM.
07-14-04, 09:13 AM
#36
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Originally posted by Doc C
wantAnewLex,
Your arguments are always so compelling. "Acuras are crap!!!" Or, in another thread, you simply say, "Yes they do!!" or "No they don't!!!" I thought this was a forum to talk about all cars objectively. Xenthar and Sick at least use rational explanations for their opinions. Someone saying they think an Acura or Infiniti is a better car I thought was okay in the Car Chat forum. I thought that was its purpose. Someone earlier mentioned the Gold S*** situation in this forum. That's what Club Lexus forums have become.
I've emailed Dave GS4 (never get a response) about this very thing. Club Lexus has turned into nothing but an area to verbally assault anyone who has a different opinion than "Lexus is best". I have owned several great Lexus vehicles and they were fantastic, but there are other cars that are as good or better depending on the needs of the person buying it.
Acura is a great car company. The new RL WILL get the attention of Lexus buyers. It is going to be fantastic. Acura was the first luxury Japanese marque. The Legend was "legendary" the way it showed Europeans that the Japanese could build a luxury performance sedan. Acura went head to head with Ferrari with the NSX and won. By the way, if an ES or LS cost $90k new, it would still be only worth about 5-10% of that in 13 years compared to the NSX at 50% of new purchase price. Sorry to burst your bubble there. It has nothing to do with initial price, it has everything to do with the fact that they hold their value. Lexus has yet to build a premier sports car of that caliber. Lexus has had many notable moments as well. I just don't think because you own either car, you suddenly can call everything else crap with no foundation or credible data. No one's flamed the Subaru Forrester yet, so why don't you try being more objective and less of a PIA!!! Go ahead with your reply. It will be something like, "You suck!!!!"
wantAnewLex,
Your arguments are always so compelling. "Acuras are crap!!!" Or, in another thread, you simply say, "Yes they do!!" or "No they don't!!!" I thought this was a forum to talk about all cars objectively. Xenthar and Sick at least use rational explanations for their opinions. Someone saying they think an Acura or Infiniti is a better car I thought was okay in the Car Chat forum. I thought that was its purpose. Someone earlier mentioned the Gold S*** situation in this forum. That's what Club Lexus forums have become.
I've emailed Dave GS4 (never get a response) about this very thing. Club Lexus has turned into nothing but an area to verbally assault anyone who has a different opinion than "Lexus is best". I have owned several great Lexus vehicles and they were fantastic, but there are other cars that are as good or better depending on the needs of the person buying it.
Acura is a great car company. The new RL WILL get the attention of Lexus buyers. It is going to be fantastic. Acura was the first luxury Japanese marque. The Legend was "legendary" the way it showed Europeans that the Japanese could build a luxury performance sedan. Acura went head to head with Ferrari with the NSX and won. By the way, if an ES or LS cost $90k new, it would still be only worth about 5-10% of that in 13 years compared to the NSX at 50% of new purchase price. Sorry to burst your bubble there. It has nothing to do with initial price, it has everything to do with the fact that they hold their value. Lexus has yet to build a premier sports car of that caliber. Lexus has had many notable moments as well. I just don't think because you own either car, you suddenly can call everything else crap with no foundation or credible data. No one's flamed the Subaru Forrester yet, so why don't you try being more objective and less of a PIA!!! Go ahead with your reply. It will be something like, "You suck!!!!"
And Infiniti finally comes up with a decent car (the G35) and people think it's God's gift to man and decide that Infninti should get all the praise in the world. Let me tell you something, as good as the G35 is, it doesn't erase the memory of the G20 or generation after generation of botched-up, irrelevant Q45 sedans. Not to mention ridiculous obscurities like the M30 and current M45.
What do you want from me, or CL in general? I'm sorry, I'm not going pander to Acura owners who come here looking for support. I'm not going to attack them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to praise cars that I deem to be inferior.
You really ought to tone it down a bit. Firstly, you have not been a CL member long enough to get to know me or my ways. I can objectively say I post some of the most coherent, complete, and logical arguments on this forum (how can you possibly think Xenthar's posts more logical and constructive than mine???).
See the Volvo S40 thread for an example.
The difference with me is that I am passionate and am one of the few people on CL still willing to stick my neck out and speak out with strong conviction. People like you would like to see me banned, but I don't think that's ever going to happen because I don't fall into the traps of saying things like "You suck!" and "Acuras are crap!!" So stop inventing things. I justify what I say and always attempt to provide reliable third-party substantiation whenever possible, but I'm not going to give a "wantanewlex 101" course to n00bs who don't understand my ways. I use edgy humor in my posts, and I am sorry if people are so thin-skinned that they cannot take it. You push my buttons, I'll push yours.
The Car Chat Forum is a place where people can come to extole the virtues of their Acuras and Infinitis. It's also the place where I can criticize whatever makes I choose...Surprise! Acura and Infiniti.
Go ahead and criticize my Subaru. It's nearly impossible to fault, considering its price. What are you gonna do? Call it a homosexual mommy wagon and question my manhood? Go ahead, friend, I've already been down that road numerous times. Visit a Subaru Forester forum. I can guarantee you won't find "The thunderstrom raped my paint last night" threads, or anything even remotely like that.
In all honesty, I wish we could ban all threads debating Infninti, and particularly Acura, because they lead nowhere. The legions of Acura and Infiniti fanboys that pass through the world known as CL will never convince me to jump ship, or even give it serious consideration, and I usually just waste time trying to pull them out of fantasy world they live in.
Originally posted by rogers
Dam, that's a pretty bold statement for a person that's not drive a luxury vehicle.
Dam, that's a pretty bold statement for a person that's not drive a luxury vehicle.
Last edited by SecPole14; 07-14-04 at 09:24 AM.
07-14-04, 10:04 AM
#38
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Originally posted by rominl
careful guys, i don't want to end up closing another acura thread
careful guys, i don't want to end up closing another acura thread
Another one bites the dust...
07-14-04, 10:48 AM
#39
Racer
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
How insulting. What do you want Dave to do? I don't attack members, flagrantly violate policy, start "Car X iz teh sux0rz!!" threads or even make a general nusiance of myself. I attack Acura because I have a deep disdain for what they have become, or have not become, as the case may be. The company that let the Legend fade away and relegated the NSX to back burner isn't go to win my praise. They had potential, which they squandered.
And Infiniti finally comes up with a decent car (the G35) and people think it's God's gift to man and decide that Infninti should get all the praise in the world. Let me tell you something, as good as the G35 is, it doesn't erase the memory of the G20 or generation after generation of botched-up, irrelevant Q45 sedans. Not to mention ridiculous obscurities like the M30 and current M45.
What do you want from me, or CL in general? I'm sorry, I'm not going pander to Acura owners who come here looking for support. I'm not going to attack them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to praise cars that I deem to be inferior.
You really ought to tone it down a bit. Firstly, you have not been a CL member long enough to get to know me or my ways. I can objectively say I post some of the most coherent, complete, and logical arguments on this forum (how can you possibly think Xenthar's posts more logical and constructive than mine???).
See the Volvo S40 thread for an example.
The difference with me is that I am passionate and am one of the few people on CL still willing to stick my neck out and speak out with strong conviction. People like you would like to see me banned, but I don't think that's ever going to happen because I don't fall into the traps of saying things like "You suck!" and "Acuras are crap!!" So stop inventing things. I justify what I say and always attempt to provide reliable third-party substantiation whenever possible, but I'm not going to give a "wantanewlex 101" course to n00bs who don't understand my ways. I use edgy humor in my posts, and I am sorry if people are so thin-skinned that they cannot take it. You push my buttons, I'll push yours.
The Car Chat Forum is a place where people can come to extole the virtues of their Acuras and Infinitis. It's also the place where I can criticize whatever makes I choose...Surprise! Acura and Infiniti.
Go ahead and criticize my Subaru. It's nearly impossible to fault, considering its price. What are you gonna do? Call it a homosexual mommy wagon and question my manhood? Go ahead, friend, I've already been down that road numerous times. Visit a Subaru Forester forum. I can guarantee you won't find "The thunderstrom raped my paint last night" threads, or anything even remotely like that.
In all honesty, I wish we could ban all threads debating Infninti, and particularly Acura, because they lead nowhere. The legions of Acura and Infiniti fanboys that pass through the world known as CL will never convince me to jump ship, or even give it serious consideration, and I usually just waste time trying to pull them out of fantasy world they live in.
The key here is that my Subaru is not pretending to be a luxury vehicle. Get my drift? I think 1Sick is the only guy who sees eye-to-eye with me on this...
How insulting. What do you want Dave to do? I don't attack members, flagrantly violate policy, start "Car X iz teh sux0rz!!" threads or even make a general nusiance of myself. I attack Acura because I have a deep disdain for what they have become, or have not become, as the case may be. The company that let the Legend fade away and relegated the NSX to back burner isn't go to win my praise. They had potential, which they squandered.
And Infiniti finally comes up with a decent car (the G35) and people think it's God's gift to man and decide that Infninti should get all the praise in the world. Let me tell you something, as good as the G35 is, it doesn't erase the memory of the G20 or generation after generation of botched-up, irrelevant Q45 sedans. Not to mention ridiculous obscurities like the M30 and current M45.
What do you want from me, or CL in general? I'm sorry, I'm not going pander to Acura owners who come here looking for support. I'm not going to attack them, but I'm not going to go out of my way to praise cars that I deem to be inferior.
You really ought to tone it down a bit. Firstly, you have not been a CL member long enough to get to know me or my ways. I can objectively say I post some of the most coherent, complete, and logical arguments on this forum (how can you possibly think Xenthar's posts more logical and constructive than mine???).
See the Volvo S40 thread for an example.
The difference with me is that I am passionate and am one of the few people on CL still willing to stick my neck out and speak out with strong conviction. People like you would like to see me banned, but I don't think that's ever going to happen because I don't fall into the traps of saying things like "You suck!" and "Acuras are crap!!" So stop inventing things. I justify what I say and always attempt to provide reliable third-party substantiation whenever possible, but I'm not going to give a "wantanewlex 101" course to n00bs who don't understand my ways. I use edgy humor in my posts, and I am sorry if people are so thin-skinned that they cannot take it. You push my buttons, I'll push yours.
The Car Chat Forum is a place where people can come to extole the virtues of their Acuras and Infinitis. It's also the place where I can criticize whatever makes I choose...Surprise! Acura and Infiniti.
Go ahead and criticize my Subaru. It's nearly impossible to fault, considering its price. What are you gonna do? Call it a homosexual mommy wagon and question my manhood? Go ahead, friend, I've already been down that road numerous times. Visit a Subaru Forester forum. I can guarantee you won't find "The thunderstrom raped my paint last night" threads, or anything even remotely like that.
In all honesty, I wish we could ban all threads debating Infninti, and particularly Acura, because they lead nowhere. The legions of Acura and Infiniti fanboys that pass through the world known as CL will never convince me to jump ship, or even give it serious consideration, and I usually just waste time trying to pull them out of fantasy world they live in.
The key here is that my Subaru is not pretending to be a luxury vehicle. Get my drift? I think 1Sick is the only guy who sees eye-to-eye with me on this...
It's nothing wrong with you voicing your opinion. But it's crazy for you to bash a car that you don't own or haven't even test drive. You had the nerve to call the car junk. Which is really going a little too far?
Basis on a few threads you have read via the internet or b/c it's not rwd. Where is the rule book that the car company must do everything another car does to be luxury.
A matter fact I don't praise any car company but you for one driving a Subaru and bashing an entry luxury car is crazy. That offers some of the best features that no car in its class offers at 32K. I love Lexus for its reliable & customer svr and that's about it.
Also Lexus is a lot cheaper than Mb for the same luxury and features.
I can't bash Subaru b/c I don't know anyone that owns one. Plus I don't own one or haven't test drive one. I guess you now understand where I’m coming from I can't fully judge what I don't know anything about. Unlike what you are doing to the Acura Tl.
Last edited by rogers2; 07-14-04 at 11:38 AM.
07-14-04, 11:02 AM
#40
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Well Well Well.. Another debate thread.
I haven't posted in a few days because I've been busy with poker and baseball but I just wanted to take a few seconds of my time to point out one thing I think some people may be missing.
1Sick visits many different car forums and posts a lot more than anyone I know.
If Sick is showing evidence after evidence of the facts that the Acura isn't performing then where exactly is the arguement? If there are faults and they aren't being corrected to a MASS degree then the discussion is over. Am I wrong?
-Anthony
I haven't posted in a few days because I've been busy with poker and baseball but I just wanted to take a few seconds of my time to point out one thing I think some people may be missing.
1Sick visits many different car forums and posts a lot more than anyone I know.
If Sick is showing evidence after evidence of the facts that the Acura isn't performing then where exactly is the arguement? If there are faults and they aren't being corrected to a MASS degree then the discussion is over. Am I wrong?
-Anthony
07-14-04, 12:20 PM
#42
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Originally posted by 98Nav400
Tough Schedule.................
Tough Schedule.................
I groundskeep 3 baseball fields and umpire at least 2 games a day. When I have other free time I like to play a little poker.
If your going to say "tough schedule", get the facts first.
-Anthony
07-14-04, 12:20 PM
#43
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Originally posted by rogers
It's nothing wrong with you voicing your opinion. But it's crazy for you to bash a car that you don't own or haven't even test drive. You had the nerve to call the car junk. Which is really going a little too far?
Basis on a few threads you have read via the internet or b/c it's not rwd. Where is the rule book that the car company must do everything another car does to be luxury.
A matter fact I don't praise any car company but you for one driving a Subaru and bashing an entry luxury car is crazy. That offers some of the best features that no car in its class offers at 32K. I love Lexus for its reliable & customer svr and that's about it.
Also Lexus is a lot cheaper than Mb for the same luxury and features.
I can't bash Subaru b/c I don't know anyone that owns one. Plus I don't own one or haven't test drive one. I guess you now understand where I’m coming from I can't fully judge what I don't know anything about. Unlike what you are doing to the Acura Tl.
It's nothing wrong with you voicing your opinion. But it's crazy for you to bash a car that you don't own or haven't even test drive. You had the nerve to call the car junk. Which is really going a little too far?
Basis on a few threads you have read via the internet or b/c it's not rwd. Where is the rule book that the car company must do everything another car does to be luxury.
A matter fact I don't praise any car company but you for one driving a Subaru and bashing an entry luxury car is crazy. That offers some of the best features that no car in its class offers at 32K. I love Lexus for its reliable & customer svr and that's about it.
Also Lexus is a lot cheaper than Mb for the same luxury and features.
I can't bash Subaru b/c I don't know anyone that owns one. Plus I don't own one or haven't test drive one. I guess you now understand where I’m coming from I can't fully judge what I don't know anything about. Unlike what you are doing to the Acura Tl.
07-14-04, 01:55 PM
#45
you know, to everyone who has gone OT (even me if that matters), get back on topic and see if the TL is good. no more acura as a whole thing or so. just the TL, good or not, yes or no. i don't want to see any other thing anymore in this thread, period.