article on bmw failure (admitted)
07-14-04, 01:48 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by mmarshall
Another thing, Romini....It seems like it is not so much Panke saying that BMW made a mistake....the impression I get is that Panke is saying that the mistake is really the public's, not BMW's, for "not being acceptive" enough to the new 7-series. His view of BMW's "error" is not being able to convince the public of the "necessity" of Bangle's designs. His view is that the public and the auto press are wrong by not embracing the new design and that they are living in the past. In other words, HE wants to push HIS design (and Chris Bangle's) out into public, call it the "wave of the future", and have nobody question it. Well, the world doesn't work that way....we don't have to buy his products...in fact, that is one reason why I bought an IS instead of a BMW. So I see where you are coming from, but I also see where he is coming from.
Another thing, Romini....It seems like it is not so much Panke saying that BMW made a mistake....the impression I get is that Panke is saying that the mistake is really the public's, not BMW's, for "not being acceptive" enough to the new 7-series. His view of BMW's "error" is not being able to convince the public of the "necessity" of Bangle's designs. His view is that the public and the auto press are wrong by not embracing the new design and that they are living in the past. In other words, HE wants to push HIS design (and Chris Bangle's) out into public, call it the "wave of the future", and have nobody question it. Well, the world doesn't work that way....we don't have to buy his products...in fact, that is one reason why I bought an IS instead of a BMW. So I see where you are coming from, but I also see where he is coming from.
"why do you think the designs are so controversial"
The guy immediately got on the defensive with
"Wait, who are you to decide what is controversial or not"
Sigh. I used to look at BMWs like "
". I have the same look on my face but it's now "
".Bangle is the anti-Christ.
07-15-04, 02:45 PM
#18
Out of Warranty
Object lesson for BMW....
Nothing like a huge public failure as a cure for hubris.....maybe Panke, Bangle, et al can learn something from this experience:
Ford had the Edsel, GM the Corvair. Actually, Chuck, my old college roommate drove a '58 Edsel for a couple of years - a huge, gorgeous car white/Turquoise/white, 2-dr HT, with the big Lincoln V8 (410CID/345HP/475LBFT)....and it would 0-60 in under 10 sec, which was pretty respectable nearly 45 years ago. It was a "parts bin" car, assembled from Ford, Mercury and Lincoln components with very few dedicated "Edsel" parts, including major body panels and glass. As I recall, only the rear fenders and back window were Edsel-specific. His upscale "Corsair" was no better or worse than contemporary high-end Lincoln-Mercury products from a reliability standpoint, but its marketing was a disaster.
It was a highly styled sport-luxury car that just before introduction had its market mix changed. It was decided to sell the line from the bottom up, with spectacularly ugly stripped down models (Pacer and Ranger) built for a price slightly above that of the cheapest Ford. If you knew how to manipulate the unusually long options list, you could build a beautiful - but expensive - vehicle. Henry "Deuce" Ford was often blamed for its failure, but it was a textbook combination of:
Despite its dramatic style, the '58 Edsel incorporated several innovations (self-adjusting brakes, transmission lock, ergonomic seats, and front-hinged hood) that are still used today. The “Teletouch” pushbutton automatic transmission selector always produced its own entertainment as valet parking attendants searched vainly for the gear lever. You had to show it to them – a circle of square buttons in the hub of the steering wheel, right where you’d expect the horn button.
Ultimately, styling went off the deep end in successive years as Edsel was forced due to poor sales to deal with the '59 and '60 Ford coachwork, and the ugly stepsister became unfairly perceived as a loser.
'58 Pacer Convertible, courtesy of hubcapcafe.com
The bottom fell out of the resale market and "Good Luck" Chuck traded the Edsel on a Corvair
-30-
Ford had the Edsel, GM the Corvair. Actually, Chuck, my old college roommate drove a '58 Edsel for a couple of years - a huge, gorgeous car white/Turquoise/white, 2-dr HT, with the big Lincoln V8 (410CID/345HP/475LBFT)....and it would 0-60 in under 10 sec, which was pretty respectable nearly 45 years ago. It was a "parts bin" car, assembled from Ford, Mercury and Lincoln components with very few dedicated "Edsel" parts, including major body panels and glass. As I recall, only the rear fenders and back window were Edsel-specific. His upscale "Corsair" was no better or worse than contemporary high-end Lincoln-Mercury products from a reliability standpoint, but its marketing was a disaster.
It was a highly styled sport-luxury car that just before introduction had its market mix changed. It was decided to sell the line from the bottom up, with spectacularly ugly stripped down models (Pacer and Ranger) built for a price slightly above that of the cheapest Ford. If you knew how to manipulate the unusually long options list, you could build a beautiful - but expensive - vehicle. Henry "Deuce" Ford was often blamed for its failure, but it was a textbook combination of:
Despite its dramatic style, the '58 Edsel incorporated several innovations (self-adjusting brakes, transmission lock, ergonomic seats, and front-hinged hood) that are still used today. The “Teletouch” pushbutton automatic transmission selector always produced its own entertainment as valet parking attendants searched vainly for the gear lever. You had to show it to them – a circle of square buttons in the hub of the steering wheel, right where you’d expect the horn button.
Ultimately, styling went off the deep end in successive years as Edsel was forced due to poor sales to deal with the '59 and '60 Ford coachwork, and the ugly stepsister became unfairly perceived as a loser.
'58 Pacer Convertible, courtesy of hubcapcafe.com
The bottom fell out of the resale market and "Good Luck" Chuck traded the Edsel on a Corvair
-30-
Last edited by Lil4X; 07-15-04 at 03:28 PM.
07-15-04, 03:20 PM
#19
bmw flop?
I'm one of the few who really really like the look of the 7 series. I also don't think it was a bad idea to computerize the car more. The execution was just poor. It could have been done way better. Now here I am trying to defend these guys and Panke comes up with chump excuses like...we know we messed up but it's your fault for not being ready for it. Get real, be a man about it. We'll forgive you if you come clean...not until.
07-15-04, 06:58 PM
#20
The whole I-drive concept was the downfall along with the ugly cues on the new 7 series that started it. I'm sorry but maybe I'm from the old school where I want to reach out & touch the volume control **** & be able to turn my radio up & down in a 1/2 sec time (either reaching for the **** on the control or the little button on the steering wheel) NOT have to rotate a impersonal large button I have to take my eyes off the road & jump through numerous steps just to turn the friggen volume up or down.
How impersonal is that? Part of the fun of driving is touching things inside your vehicle & getting a response in a split sec. The I-Drive is a real turn off for me.
I know this is another topic but....
I keep thinking of the pics on the new 2005 GS & thinking of the console area, why is Lexus still keeping that cassette deck? Why? does anyone really still use cassette decks? Free up the space & give us some new feature.
How impersonal is that? Part of the fun of driving is touching things inside your vehicle & getting a response in a split sec. The I-Drive is a real turn off for me.
I know this is another topic but....
I keep thinking of the pics on the new 2005 GS & thinking of the console area, why is Lexus still keeping that cassette deck? Why? does anyone really still use cassette decks? Free up the space & give us some new feature.
07-15-04, 07:08 PM
#21
bmw flop
Originally posted by XanaduSC
The whole I-drive concept was the downfall along with the ugly cues on the new 7 series that started it. I'm sorry but maybe I'm from the old school where I want to reach out & touch the volume control **** & be able to turn my radio up & down in a 1/2 sec time (either reaching for the **** on the control or the little button on the steering wheel) NOT have to rotate a impersonal large button I have to take my eyes off the road & jump through numerous steps just to turn the friggen volume up or down.
How impersonal is that? Part of the fun of driving is touching things inside your vehicle & getting a response in a split sec. The I-Drive is a real turn off for me.
I know this is another topic but....
I keep thinking of the pics on the new 2005 GS & thinking of the console area, why is Lexus still keeping that cassette deck? Why? does anyone really still use cassette decks? Free up the space & give us some new feature.
The whole I-drive concept was the downfall along with the ugly cues on the new 7 series that started it. I'm sorry but maybe I'm from the old school where I want to reach out & touch the volume control **** & be able to turn my radio up & down in a 1/2 sec time (either reaching for the **** on the control or the little button on the steering wheel) NOT have to rotate a impersonal large button I have to take my eyes off the road & jump through numerous steps just to turn the friggen volume up or down.
How impersonal is that? Part of the fun of driving is touching things inside your vehicle & getting a response in a split sec. The I-Drive is a real turn off for me.
I know this is another topic but....
I keep thinking of the pics on the new 2005 GS & thinking of the console area, why is Lexus still keeping that cassette deck? Why? does anyone really still use cassette decks? Free up the space & give us some new feature.
I'm not praising I-drive...I just think computerization is good if executed better. More user friendly. The idea is a good one. I-drive is not only impersonal, it's unsafe.
As for cassettes, I still use mine. Got too many mixed tapes to let it go. I guess I could copy them to CD, when they make a machine to do that for public use.
07-15-04, 11:40 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'll be honest, these new BMW confuse the SHIAT outta me.
SImply put BMW may have not LOST a comparison in magazines for over 10 years. They simply were the best driving cars period. The styling was not adventerous but DAMN handsome and near perfect sculpture. EVERY CARMAKER wanted TO BE LIKE BMW!!!! The GS, IS, G35, TL, S2000 roadster, AMG cars, S cars from AUDI, Lincoln LS, Caddys are perfect examples.
These new BMW are alienating.
1. BMWs are supposed to be DRIVING MACHINES. Now they have all this active steering and heads up displays and are taking the experience away with the gizoms.
2. Dashes. BMWs had the driver's oriented cockpits, with the dash curved towards the driver. Instead we have I-drive which totally TAKES away the driver from driving.
3. Styling. People used to look at BMWS in AWE!!! Now they look in AWWWWWW
SImply put BMW may have not LOST a comparison in magazines for over 10 years. They simply were the best driving cars period. The styling was not adventerous but DAMN handsome and near perfect sculpture. EVERY CARMAKER wanted TO BE LIKE BMW!!!! The GS, IS, G35, TL, S2000 roadster, AMG cars, S cars from AUDI, Lincoln LS, Caddys are perfect examples.
These new BMW are alienating.
1. BMWs are supposed to be DRIVING MACHINES. Now they have all this active steering and heads up displays and are taking the experience away with the gizoms.
2. Dashes. BMWs had the driver's oriented cockpits, with the dash curved towards the driver. Instead we have I-drive which totally TAKES away the driver from driving.
3. Styling. People used to look at BMWS in AWE!!!
Now they look in AWWWWWW
07-16-04, 05:30 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by GlobeCLK
The Ultimate Driving Machines.......... when they actually drive.
The Ultimate Driving Machines.......... when they actually drive.
Well, how about Panke....the CEO ? He is the Ultimate JIVING Machine.
07-16-04, 10:29 AM
#27
Instructor
Originally posted by mmarshall
Fine, I agree.....now let's see them start CORRECTING it. Toss the I-Drive, put the old sheet metal back on, and put the traditional SUPERB Bimmer steering gear back in.
Fine, I agree.....now let's see them start CORRECTING it. Toss the I-Drive, put the old sheet metal back on, and put the traditional SUPERB Bimmer steering gear back in.
Last edited by BrickHead; 07-16-04 at 10:31 AM.
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