Xenthar

looks pretty good, but i still think the new m45 looks better than the rl and new gs...

LexFather

http://www.automobear.com/AcuraRLToo...nnovative.html

Wonderful article on the RL. Wonderful as in truthful and points the negatives we have stated as well as the positives.

LexFather

rogers2

Nice articles, both write ups sound as if this car was better looking it would sell like hotcakes.
Another thing:
The old Acura image is what is hurting this car not the car itself.
I can't wait to see the new GS articles.

SecPole14

Oh jeez, it's C&D praising another Honda/Acura. I noticed at the end they mentioned let "Honda be Honda" while Fred M.H. Gregory (A newcomer?? Who is this guy?) says it could be mentioned alongside the 5 or E. Odd!

Please note, and this is important, that while they went out of their way to praise the car, they never explicitly stated that it is better than, or that they would choose it over, a certain BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus model.

A comparo would be more telling, but it would be stupid if they pinned a 300HP car in a test with car that have less than 250HP (E320, 530, or upcoming GS) simply for the fact of comparing 6-cylinder engines and price tags.

The new RL is in a true no-man's land in terms of price and equipment. Pin it against the upcoming GS3 or E320, and it might walk away with the win and draw sneers from the Honda-Acura crowd, but if it were put up against the V8 variants, it would lose and people would say "NO FAIR!" on grounds of price and optional features.

I think from what we see here that this is the best Acura can do, which is great, but not good enough to beat Lexus, BMW, or Benz on their own terms (V8 prestige luxury).

In conclusion, just what we expected: A fantastic car on its own, which if put against the old school of Lexus, BMW, and Benz, proves that Acura still doesn't have what it takes to get into the club or definitively dethrone the established players.

rogers2

Dam your such a hater.
I could have sworn you stated in this thread or another thread that you wasn't going to never post on another acura or honda topic. Then why?
I respect your opinions but you never offer anything positive. I kiss no car company *** but man you're really a trip. I could care less if acura never builds a v8. Why b/c I have no interest in purchasing a v8 at this very moment. You know the author mention the 5 & gs300 because those cars are around the same price as the acura rl loaded.
You make statements like acura don't have the brain power to make an v8. How hard can it be to built a v8?
You complain OVER & OVER but probaly never on a V8 in your life!!
What club are you talk about? It doesn't even look like your even in the club anyway. So like acura you step up then you get more respect from people well at least me. Complain about a car you haven't even driven.
I really hate reading you posts, next time I promise everyone I won't.

rogers2

Dam your such a hater.
I could have sworn you stated in this thread or another thread that you wasn't going to never post on another acura or honda topic. Then why?
I respect your opinions but you never offer anything positive. I kiss no car company *** but man you're really a trip. I could care less if acura never builds a v8. Why b/c I have no interest in purchasing a v8 at this very moment. You know the author mention the 5 & gs300 because those cars are around the same price as the acura rl loaded.
You make statements like acura don't have the brain power to make an v8. How hard can it be to built a v8?
You complain OVER & OVER but probaly never on a V8 in your life!!
What club are you talk about? It doesn't even look like your even in the club anyway. So like acura you step up then you get more respect from people well at least me. Complain about a car you haven't even driven.
I really hate reading you posts, next time I promise everyone I won't.

SecPole14

"Rogers...Remember when I told you I was never going to post in an Acura thread again? I LIED."
(That was a play off an Arnold line in the film "Commando" in case you didn't get it.)

Anyway, There's a difference in criticizing a car and making a personal attack. I think it's clear where I fall and where you fall.

I didn't say the RL sucks. Far from it. I just offered some opinions and stated the obvious: Acura still doesn't have what it takes to beat Lexus, MB, or BMW. I think few would disagree on that point.

It would be appreciated if you would ease up on the personal jabs.

rogers2

I will pimp, I shouldn't have took their. Holla

SecPole14

It's all good.

RON430

After seeing this car at the SFO auto show, I really have a hard time giving it a second thought. It actually photographs much better than it looks in person. Honda should spend a bit more thought on making an Acura look like an Acura. Pleasant and generic are the biggest impressions I have. And as for smallish and expensive - hit those on the head also. Driving it might make a difference but driving it won't make it bigger. Just sort of a ho hum after all these years waiting for the RL to get updated. Can't quite figure out what niche this car is aimed at.

Cadd

That's not stupid. Why would it be? I think it's pretty fair. As long as the price tags are around the same and the engines are similar, I say it's fair game.

And don't you think they have the right to cry "NO FAIR"? I mean come on......you're putting up a V6 against V8s that cost a lot more. Why do you think that's a fair comparison? I don't understand the logic. Tell me if this is what you're thinking? "This is the top of the line Acura, so it should compete with the top of the line models from other makes (i.e. S500, LS430, 745i, etc.)." But you gotta remember, the RL isn't even close to any of those cars.

And if I follow that logic, I can say the same about Lexus. If you pin the LS430 (top of the line) against the top of the line BMW or MB, it will get owned. Then the Lexus crowd would cry "NO FAIR" because the LS430 wasn't meant to be compete with 760iLs and S55s. You see what I mean?

I don't see why the RL has to compete with V8s? If Acura wanted it to compete with V8s, I think they would have put a V8 in. Instead, they chose to put a high powered V6 to compete (I'm assuming here) with V6/I6 5 series, E class, GS, etc. I think as long as the prices/motors are similar, it's fair game.

SecPole14

I agree with what of most you said, I'm sorry if you thought that's what I was getting it. Of course it wouldn't be fair.

All of this boils down to the question of: where does the RL belong? Fighting the six-cylinder, RWD variants from Lexus, BMW, and MB (with less features) or more powerful variants with comparable equipment? And then that brings price into play...The RL is one tough car to call.

In doing some reseach on F1, I came across some info that claimed Honda as an internal unofficial (or maybe offcial??) policy of not building V8s as per the Honor of one of the Honda family. So it's likely we'll just keep seeing Honda milk smaller engines for more power instead of increasing the cylinder count...

As for the LS430...It's easy to classify, don't you see? It's NA RWD V8 and easy to put up against the NA V8 RWD S430 or 745. Nobody compares the LS430 with its NA V8 to the V12 BMW or forced-induction Benz. Again, I'm just trying to make the point that the RL is a bizzare car by design (packaging) and hard to compare.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

It is not hard to figure out where Honda/Acura wants to compete with the RL. It is in the same position since day one of Acura's existence in 1986 with the Legend. They have always claimed the Legend to be a BMW 5 Series competitor (Exluding the 540/545). That means back then it was the 525. When the RL came out it was the 530 which it fell way behind. Now it is the 530. Whatever the BMW 530 competes with today is what the RL competes with. Look at every single comparison test put out by magazines and Acura themselves and they have never put this car against the 545, LS400, C430. E430 and such. Even Acuras promotional test drives of the new 05 RL puts it up gainst the BMW 530 and the Mercedes C320/E320 cars. I've never seen them bring in an LS430 or 545i, or S class. So, their position has never changed. It is not meant to compete with the larger Sedans. As of now they don't have a $60K Large Sedan car.


As for Honda neverf building a V8. That is not true. They have never offered a production run V8 in their consumor cars, but they have built V8s for them in their prototype cars back as far back in the late 80s. In the case of the NSX, they had full working prototypes with V8s, Twin Turbo V6s, various other V6s and such. The end decision was to use VTEC on their V6 so that is what it came out to. At that time it was more than enough power to move that car in that time era. Adding the heavier V8 was dismissed. But is shows you that they do indeed try different engines and configurations and then make a dicision after that.

Yes, you can say it hurts the image of Acura to not offer a V8. What car selles better though? The GS300 or tge GS430? The Mercedes C320 or the C430? The BMW 545i or the 530i? From all the years past it appears the smaller 6 cylinder versions of each vehicle seem to outsell their V8 big brothers. YOu can say Acura is in no mans land with the RL. I think that is perfect. They are appealing to all those V6 buyer who passed over the lager V8 options. They will not bring in potential LS430 or S Class buyer but they will surely bring in any potential owner looking to spend about $50K on a Luxury car. How many will they actually snag is up to debate, but I bet they do snag a lot of them. I garantee you will see a lot of potential 5 Series BMW owers choosing the RL over the BMW. Just read some of the BMW forums and you see after the Bangled 5 Series the RL does get favarable style points with them compared to the BMW. A test drive between the 530 and RL probably would swing many to the RL.

As for not having a RWD, I pesonally could not tell any difference betwen my RWD cars and this AWD RL. It is stated that is has about 70% FWD bias when cruising on the highway. In that situation it doesn't matter if one wheel is driving the car since you are cruising. It can direct up to 70% of power to the rear wheels when needed. That means it acts as a RWD biased AWD car under acceleration or when the rear needs it. It can direct up to 100% power side to side to any given outside wheel as well as 70% front to rear at the same time. All told, there is no hint of any FWD bias on this car when I drove it. No torque steer, perfectly balanced cornering, and no uneasy oversteer. This car does not behave like a FWD car or a FWD biased AWD car. It simply goes where you want it to go.

XeroK00L

Another good review of the RL from the Detroit News.

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsume...x.cfm?id=16779

"Perhaps the most impressive technical feature of all, however, is the RL's new "Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive," and it's no hyperbole. The so-called SH-AWD system gives the RL an overwhelming sense of stability and security that is lacking in many of its high-performance competitors."

"The net effect is to reduce the feeling of understeer or oversteer, giving the RL an uncanny sense of poise and balance through most high-speed corners."

Looks like they like the SH-AWD too.