Acura RL thread(new pics, A-Spec) $49,479
09-04-04 | 09:09 AM
#76
wantAnewLex - but as we've discussed, Honda just can't afford to compete with Lexus/MB, so don't keep expecting them to. I could even see the Acura brand going away entirely at some point. Not the cars, just the brand.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 09-04-04 at 09:09 AM.
09-04-04 | 09:45 AM
#77
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From: IL
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
Acura is going nowhere. They were here first, and they could have and should have established themselves as a force early on. Tough luck for them, it was and is clear they don't have what it takes. Again, even Infiniti puts Acura to shame. The luxury car market has been spoken for, and the bouncers are named Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. No one else is getting into the club. Ever.
I'm sure the RL will sell. But I can only hope it will be a disaster.
Acura is going nowhere. They were here first, and they could have and should have established themselves as a force early on. Tough luck for them, it was and is clear they don't have what it takes. Again, even Infiniti puts Acura to shame. The luxury car market has been spoken for, and the bouncers are named Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz. No one else is getting into the club. Ever.
I'm sure the RL will sell. But I can only hope it will be a disaster.
Seems to me that Acura is doing just fine. Remember, not everyone wants to rule the world.
Last edited by doug_999; 09-04-04 at 09:50 AM.
09-04-04 | 10:03 AM
#78
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 5,813
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From: The Bay Area, CA, USA
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
Honda knows less than I do about AWD and their concept of luxury and style is second-class at best. As 1Sick might say, I get more excited about vacuuming my room than thinking about this RL.
Honda knows less than I do about AWD and their concept of luxury and style is second-class at best. As 1Sick might say, I get more excited about vacuuming my room than thinking about this RL.
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
FWD-bias AWD and a V6 in a flagship don't say 'luxury' at all. The RL may be a fine car, in a singularity. However, comparing it to a proper RWD from Germany or Japan (Lexus) is ludicrous. Don't forget, Lexus and MB are showing signs of embracing RWD-bias AWD...I wouldn't criticize Acura half as much as I do if their fans would just admit that their cars are a step above Honda, a half-step down from Infiniti, and quite a few paces away from the Big 3.
FWD-bias AWD and a V6 in a flagship don't say 'luxury' at all. The RL may be a fine car, in a singularity. However, comparing it to a proper RWD from Germany or Japan (Lexus) is ludicrous. Don't forget, Lexus and MB are showing signs of embracing RWD-bias AWD...I wouldn't criticize Acura half as much as I do if their fans would just admit that their cars are a step above Honda, a half-step down from Infiniti, and quite a few paces away from the Big 3.
If you've read the review closely, you'll find that the '05 RL does NOT appear to exhibit any traits of being FWD-biased, or for that matter, RWD-biased. That's the whole point about SH-AWD, not FWD-biased, not RWD-biased, just simply power where needed. I believe this is a true advancement in AWD technologies. The fact that the journalist could actually see in the SH-AWD display in the MID that the bar graph for the rear left wheel grow very long when initiating a right turn proves that Honda has done it right. And the fact that the new RL handles the better the more aggressive with throttle in a turn it gets is just amazing.
Of course, this is just an initial review from one journalist. But don't be so eager to discredit it before you yourself or more journalists have testdriven it.
Last edited by XeroK00L; 09-04-04 at 10:06 AM.
09-04-04 | 10:39 AM
#79
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From: I wonder why I live alone here...
Originally posted by bitkahuna
wantAnewLex - but as we've discussed, Honda just can't afford to compete with Lexus/MB, so don't keep expecting them to. I could even see the Acura brand going away entirely at some point. Not the cars, just the brand.
wantAnewLex - but as we've discussed, Honda just can't afford to compete with Lexus/MB, so don't keep expecting them to. I could even see the Acura brand going away entirely at some point. Not the cars, just the brand.
I don't expect them to compete with the big boys. Other people, however, are quick to make comparisons between Acura and Lexus or BMW, and it ticks me off.
I really wouldn't be so rabid about this issue if people would quit blowing things out of proportion. For example, that guy tested it against a 5-Series and found the RL more to his liking so now people will say that Acura at least compete with, if not beats, BMW. It's ludicrous.
XeroK00L:
Furthermore, from what I have read, the SHAWD system will be 70/30 front-to-rear under normal conditions with the ability to go as far as 30/70 from-to-rear if needed and 0/100 side-to-side. So, it is a FWD-bias car.
Fine, so it goes fast around a track. I doubt you'll be seeing many RLs on the track. And in the real world where one may need the AWD advantage, SHAWD isn't going to tower above the other systems out there.
Come on, it's just a whole bunch of fancy gadgets. Honda knew they had to put on the glitz to sell the car, because there are plent of AWD systems on the market that don't need such features to perform well.
There are Subaru, Audi, and 4Matic Benz drivers out there who don't need all this Honda AWD techno-crap to either provide safety on the road or performance on the track.
Guess what, my mechanical LSD will probably do just as good of a job as Honda's 0/100 electro-magneto diff.
Modern, well-implemented, proven AWD systems have been around for years, most notably in Audi and Subaru. Honda comes out with AWD and a bunch of fancy gadgets and people go ape**** and proclaim a revolution.
I'm just calling it like I see it.
Last edited by SecPole14; 09-04-04 at 11:01 AM.
09-04-04 | 12:50 PM
#80
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From: California
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
LOL, I know. It just bugs me that people will/do inevitably compare Acura to real luxury marques and that's where the problem starts.
I don't expect them to compete with the big boys. Other people, however, are quick to make comparisons between Acura and Lexus or BMW, and it ticks me off.
I really wouldn't be so rabid about this issue if people would quit blowing things out of proportion. For example, that guy tested it against a 5-Series and found the RL more to his liking so now people will say that Acura at least compete with, if not beats, BMW. It's ludicrous.
LOL, I know. It just bugs me that people will/do inevitably compare Acura to real luxury marques and that's where the problem starts.
I don't expect them to compete with the big boys. Other people, however, are quick to make comparisons between Acura and Lexus or BMW, and it ticks me off.
I really wouldn't be so rabid about this issue if people would quit blowing things out of proportion. For example, that guy tested it against a 5-Series and found the RL more to his liking so now people will say that Acura at least compete with, if not beats, BMW. It's ludicrous.
09-04-04 | 01:02 PM
#81
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: I wonder why I live alone here...
Originally posted by Xenthar
You know honestly, when honda/nissan/toyota decided to make their acura/infiniti/lexus counterparts, they were meant to be the luxury branch of their companies. Although you yourself may not think that acura or infiniti are luxury companies, that doesnt mean that they arent. They are meant to be the luxury counterparts of their parent companies and just because you or whoever else has a different opinion about it, that won't change what they really are. Car magazines and such compare cars like the new RL to the 5 series because they are both from luxury brands and they are in the same class. PERIOD! To think that lexus is the only japanese car manufacturer that is considered a "luxury" car maker is just stupid. Your bias is really childish. Acura and infiniti may not be as successful as toyota, but that doesnt make them any less of a car company. Based on all your posts regarding acura/infiniti, its obvious that your way of thinking is very biased and everything you say is to put the car companies down.
You know honestly, when honda/nissan/toyota decided to make their acura/infiniti/lexus counterparts, they were meant to be the luxury branch of their companies. Although you yourself may not think that acura or infiniti are luxury companies, that doesnt mean that they arent. They are meant to be the luxury counterparts of their parent companies and just because you or whoever else has a different opinion about it, that won't change what they really are. Car magazines and such compare cars like the new RL to the 5 series because they are both from luxury brands and they are in the same class. PERIOD! To think that lexus is the only japanese car manufacturer that is considered a "luxury" car maker is just stupid. Your bias is really childish. Acura and infiniti may not be as successful as toyota, but that doesnt make them any less of a car company. Based on all your posts regarding acura/infiniti, its obvious that your way of thinking is very biased and everything you say is to put the car companies down.
When you say the RL and 5-Series are in the same class, are you talking about size and base price or engineering and design? It depends greatly...Perhaps the former, but to suggest the latter would be lunacy.
I agree with you (
) on the point of Infiniti and Acura being luxury branches of their respective parent companies. They would be luxury cars if they existed as a singularity. But they don't. You can't say "luxury" and have it imply all mid/upper level companies.
When someone mentions luxury, I think of Audi, Lexus, Jag, BMW, and/or Benz. I hope you don't think that all luxury is created equally, because it certainly isn't.
Acura and Infiniti luxury are not in the same class as the aforementioned companies.
09-04-04 | 01:07 PM
#82
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 435
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From: California
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
I admit that I am biased. Quite biased, in fact. I have no intention to pander to lesser companies and products simply to be nice. As I stated before, I respect Honda and Acura (and Infiniti) for being healthy companies in a corporate sense and I also respect their engineering prowess. However, all that engineering prowess and corporate talent goes to producing second-class (relatively speaking) vehicles. That's why I don't show them much love.
When you say the RL and 5-Series are in the same class, are you talking about size and base price or engineering and design? It depends greatly...Perhaps the former, but to suggest the latter would be lunacy.
I agree with you ( ) on the point of Infiniti and Acura being luxury branches of their respective parent companies. They would be luxury cars if they existed as a singularity. But they don't.
You can't say "luxury" and have it imply all mid/upper level companies.
When someone mentions luxury, I think of Audi, Lexus, Jag, BMW, and/or Benz. I hope you don't think that all luxury is created equally, because it certainly isn't.
Acura and Infiniti luxury are not in the same class as the aforementioned companies.
I admit that I am biased. Quite biased, in fact. I have no intention to pander to lesser companies and products simply to be nice. As I stated before, I respect Honda and Acura (and Infiniti) for being healthy companies in a corporate sense and I also respect their engineering prowess. However, all that engineering prowess and corporate talent goes to producing second-class (relatively speaking) vehicles. That's why I don't show them much love.
When you say the RL and 5-Series are in the same class, are you talking about size and base price or engineering and design? It depends greatly...Perhaps the former, but to suggest the latter would be lunacy.
I agree with you (
) on the point of Infiniti and Acura being luxury branches of their respective parent companies. They would be luxury cars if they existed as a singularity. But they don't. You can't say "luxury" and have it imply all mid/upper level companies.
When someone mentions luxury, I think of Audi, Lexus, Jag, BMW, and/or Benz. I hope you don't think that all luxury is created equally, because it certainly isn't.
Acura and Infiniti luxury are not in the same class as the aforementioned companies.
09-04-04 | 01:17 PM
#83
Driver
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 182
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From: California
wantanewlex how old are you?
If you want to ask the general public on what luxury is they will immediatly say Mercedes-Benz and BMW and maybe Jag. These are cars with Prestige, heritage, and engineered drivibility unmatched by anything.
But who cares about the general public because they are ingnorant and uninformed.
To most people a Lexus from the outside is a carbon copy mercedes. Do I care? Nope because i care for quality and perfection.
Acuras are impeccable cars and are just as good as most lexus models. because they dont have the "look of luxury" you cannot say they are not worthy.
Don't be a brand Wh0re, be an all around car enthusiast. Every company has something to offer. The TL and RL are some of the nicest peices of work by Honda.
Robert
If you want to ask the general public on what luxury is they will immediatly say Mercedes-Benz and BMW and maybe Jag. These are cars with Prestige, heritage, and engineered drivibility unmatched by anything.
But who cares about the general public because they are ingnorant and uninformed.
To most people a Lexus from the outside is a carbon copy mercedes. Do I care? Nope because i care for quality and perfection.
Acuras are impeccable cars and are just as good as most lexus models. because they dont have the "look of luxury" you cannot say they are not worthy.
Don't be a brand Wh0re, be an all around car enthusiast. Every company has something to offer. The TL and RL are some of the nicest peices of work by Honda.
Robert
Last edited by iloveGS300; 09-04-04 at 01:20 PM.
09-04-04 | 01:22 PM
#84
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by iloveGS300
wantanewlex how old are you?
If you want to ask the general public on what luxury is they will immediatly say Mercedes-Benz and BMW and maybe Jag. These are cars with Prestige, heritage, and engineered drivibility unmatched by anything.
But who cares about the general public because they are ingnorant and uninformed.
To most people a Lexus from the outside is a carbon copy mercedes. Do I care? Nope because i care for quality and perfection.
Acuras are impeccable cars and are just as good as most lexus models. because they dont have the "look of luxury" you cannot say they are not worthy.
Don't be a brand *****, be an all around car enthusiast. Every company has something to offer.
Robert
wantanewlex how old are you?
If you want to ask the general public on what luxury is they will immediatly say Mercedes-Benz and BMW and maybe Jag. These are cars with Prestige, heritage, and engineered drivibility unmatched by anything.
But who cares about the general public because they are ingnorant and uninformed.
To most people a Lexus from the outside is a carbon copy mercedes. Do I care? Nope because i care for quality and perfection.
Acuras are impeccable cars and are just as good as most lexus models. because they dont have the "look of luxury" you cannot say they are not worthy.
Don't be a brand *****, be an all around car enthusiast. Every company has something to offer.
Robert
Acuras are good cars. The TSX just beat the Suburu Legacy, Volvo S40 and Audi 4 in a review.
THe only Lexus that can be called a carbon copy of a Benz is the LS. Otherwise, I don't know where people get this opinion from.
09-04-04 | 01:49 PM
#85
Driver
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: California
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Funny but I think Jag is no longer on that list of must haves. It used to be. Recent offerings and with the surgance of the competition has really hurt Jag. Its stil luxury very much so though. Funny, I wanted a Jag so bad but their prestige took a hit in my eye.
Acuras are good cars. The TSX just beat the Suburu Legacy, Volvo S40 and Audi 4 in a review.
THe only Lexus that can be called a carbon copy of a Benz is the LS. Otherwise, I don't know where people get this opinion from.
Funny but I think Jag is no longer on that list of must haves. It used to be. Recent offerings and with the surgance of the competition has really hurt Jag. Its stil luxury very much so though. Funny, I wanted a Jag so bad but their prestige took a hit in my eye.
Acuras are good cars. The TSX just beat the Suburu Legacy, Volvo S40 and Audi 4 in a review.
THe only Lexus that can be called a carbon copy of a Benz is the LS. Otherwise, I don't know where people get this opinion from.
Yes the LS is carbon copy and its a flagship model The car is absolute masterpeice if you can get over the incredibly dull and dated design. The GS front also takes ques from the W210 E class from back in 96. But the entire shape as a whole on the GS is unique and distinctive which is why I can let go for its derivative front end.( Very nicely done btw)
Robert
Last edited by iloveGS300; 09-04-04 at 01:51 PM.
09-04-04 | 01:56 PM
#86
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,120
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From: Canada
Originally posted by iloveGS300
. The GS front also takes ques from the W210 E class from back in 96.
Robert
. The GS front also takes ques from the W210 E class from back in 96.
Robert
Last edited by Gojirra99; 09-04-04 at 01:57 PM.
09-04-04 | 01:59 PM
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by iloveGS300
Jag sell on its gorgeous looks and british driving characteristics. Its a different experience but requires tolerance since its it breaks down constantly. You have to be a jag enthusiast to appreciate a jag.
Yes the LS is carbon copy and its a flagship model The car is absolute masterpeice if you can get over the incredibly dull and dated design. The GS front also takes ques from the W210 E class from back in 96. But the entire shape as a whole on the GS is unique and distinctive which is why I can let go for its derivative front end.( Very nicely done btw)
Robert
Jag sell on its gorgeous looks and british driving characteristics. Its a different experience but requires tolerance since its it breaks down constantly. You have to be a jag enthusiast to appreciate a jag.
Yes the LS is carbon copy and its a flagship model The car is absolute masterpeice if you can get over the incredibly dull and dated design. The GS front also takes ques from the W210 E class from back in 96. But the entire shape as a whole on the GS is unique and distinctive which is why I can let go for its derivative front end.( Very nicely done btw)
Robert
09-04-04 | 02:06 PM
#88
Driver
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 182
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From: California
Originally posted by SexySC
I absolutely, totally disagree. The GS front is definately derived from the first generation Lexus SC, which came out years before the W210 E class with it's square-ish front. Benz or any other car manufacturer does not have an exclusive right to quad headlights
I absolutely, totally disagree. The GS front is definately derived from the first generation Lexus SC, which came out years before the W210 E class with it's square-ish front. Benz or any other car manufacturer does not have an exclusive right to quad headlights
Maybe MB took the idea from Jag? I think they had it first with with th quad style before anyone. Even the revised Bentley Arnage and all new Continental coupe use a similar design yet no one says they copied. Robert
09-04-04 | 02:49 PM
#89
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 1
From: I wonder why I live alone here...
Originally posted by iloveGS300
wantanewlex how old are you?
If you want to ask the general public on what luxury is they will immediatly say Mercedes-Benz and BMW and maybe Jag. These are cars with Prestige, heritage, and engineered drivibility unmatched by anything.
But who cares about the general public because they are ingnorant and uninformed.
To most people a Lexus from the outside is a carbon copy mercedes. Do I care? Nope because i care for quality and perfection.
Acuras are impeccable cars and are just as good as most lexus models. because they dont have the "look of luxury" you cannot say they are not worthy.
Don't be a brand Wh0re, be an all around car enthusiast. Every company has something to offer. The TL and RL are some of the nicest peices of work by Honda.
Robert
wantanewlex how old are you?
If you want to ask the general public on what luxury is they will immediatly say Mercedes-Benz and BMW and maybe Jag. These are cars with Prestige, heritage, and engineered drivibility unmatched by anything.
But who cares about the general public because they are ingnorant and uninformed.
To most people a Lexus from the outside is a carbon copy mercedes. Do I care? Nope because i care for quality and perfection.
Acuras are impeccable cars and are just as good as most lexus models. because they dont have the "look of luxury" you cannot say they are not worthy.
Don't be a brand Wh0re, be an all around car enthusiast. Every company has something to offer. The TL and RL are some of the nicest peices of work by Honda.
Robert
Are you some sort of fascist? What if I want to be a Lexus *****? Why do I have to be politcally correct and like all cars in order to be an enthusiast?
Why did you quote "look of luxury?" I never stated that. Looks are the last thing I'm concerned about. You should understand that when I say "design" I mean more "styling." I said having a flagship that is FWD-bias and V6-only is not luxury. When I think of luxury, I think of RWD and V8+.
"Be an all around car enthusiast." What a joke! Who are YOU to tell ME what I should like and why?!
Christ, your comments are infuriating.
Xenthar:
Generally, when I post something, I express my opinion, not the world's. For example, when you post something, I know you are expressing your opinion, not the world's. I understand this. I'm not sure why you don't and why you think I'm trying to speak for the world...
I rarely use the word 'fact' in regard to my subjective criticisms of Acura and Infiniti. I regularly make my positions clear (and have provided numerous reasons) when these debates come up, and I think you know where I stand.
09-04-04 | 02:52 PM
#90
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,330
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From: I wonder why I live alone here...
Originally posted by iloveGS300
Jag sell on its gorgeous looks and british driving characteristics. Its a different experience but requires tolerance since its it breaks down constantly. You have to be a jag enthusiast to appreciate a jag.
Jag sell on its gorgeous looks and british driving characteristics. Its a different experience but requires tolerance since its it breaks down constantly. You have to be a jag enthusiast to appreciate a jag.
The new XJ is marvelous and reliability and quality ratings have gone up significantly.