Iceman

It's interesting that in this thread and others, some folks have made the assertion that Lexus is trying to be the Japanese Mercedes while Infiniti is trying to be the Japanese BMW. Those are gross oversimplifications, but okay...

So what does that make Acura? Judging by their recent releases (TL, TSX, and now RL) it appears that they are taking both head-on at once. These cars outperform their competition, and out-feature them as well, all at a price point thousands less. Say what you will about prestige or corners cut regarding build quality (only time will tell if Acura keeps blowing trannies, for example), but I don't see how anyone could objectively doubt that Acura is serious in the upscale auto market.

I will come back to a refrain I repeat here often--I'm GLAD Acura is raising the bar, because that will force Lexus and other carmakers to work that much harder. Competition keeps every manufacturer sharp, and the real beneficiary is the consumer...

Cadd

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I debate 1 somewhat because they need a V8!

As far as 2 - AMEN!

Captain Bone

Interesting debate going on here. I just read over the whole thing and really enjoyed the many points made by everyone involved.

I've never been a big fan of Acura only because of their FWD and V6 vulnerbility. The new cars are nice but still lack those two things I seek in my top features of a car.

Barring that, the car is quite nice and full of gadget goodies. I give Acura a thumbs up for a good attempt.

-Anthony

JAC JZS

Classic

Rob L

Wow.

Wantanewlex makes me embarrassed to be a Lexus owner. What a friggin brand *****. The BEST thing is he goes on about the RL not being a luxury car yet says it isn't because styling but because it is FWD biased (who cares when it is going in a straight line? when not going around turns/bends I don't notice a diff between my RWD IS and FWD cars I have driven) and the V6 engine. Dude, what makes a luxury car is basically the bloody interior and features!!! Man. I have to wonder if I was that clueless and ignorant when I was 19. Also love how he makes comments on the cars performance yet has never driven the bloody thing. Way to post a great useful opinion there buddy.

I hope that when the car comes out and everyone gets to drive it and the mags test it they find it out accelerates the majority of cars out there (I saw one first drive where they estimate the 0-60 time to be 5.9 seconds) and out handles them as well. In fact, I hope it out handles every Lexus model to date just to simply shut that 19 year old jackass up. But hey, I am sure he will keep shooting his mouth off with his useless comments. I will laugh if it outhandles the new GS coming out and to be honest, I bet it will. Oh and I also hope it turns out to be one of the quietest cars in the world (say behind the LS) and one of the smoothest riding but then again, it still won't be a luxury sedan.

I found it funny reading this thread and having most people just comment on the exterior and ASSume the car is junk because it has a conservative styling...do you people really just buy cars based on the exterior? if so, that is pathetic. Don't know about you but I spend most of my time with my car INSIDE DRIVING IT and I really don't give a rat's *** if some avg joe likes the look of it or not. I have pity for you if you need to have strangers boost your ego by liking the look of your posessions.

So far I find the RL to be much better based on pics/specs than the new GS. Am I allowed to say that around here since I am not blindly on my knees orally servicing the Lexus nameplate? The funny thing is I am a huge Lexus fan (probably have owned more lexus cars than anyone here) but I am mature and comfortable enough with myself that I can like other manufacturers' cars.

The best thing I think is that if this was a lexus model so many here would be covering their walls with white goo over the specs/pics. You gotta love how humans can be so biased which in turn just shows off how silly/dumb they can be.

LexusLuver

RL costs $50k which can almost buy a GS430.

I really doubt that 3800lb sporty/touring car will outhandle an IS in the dry, a stock GS should give it a good run.

I still cant figure out what it competes against, maybe it just allows Acura fans someplace to step up into.

Why would you be embarrassed about owning a certain car, simply because of one person's opinion?

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Actually, a FWD car can make it's drivetrain layout just as noticeable on a straightaway as it can in a curve. Have you driven the new TL? You can sit at a light, wait for it to turn green, stop on the pedal and then fight the steering wheel to remain in a straight line. The fact of the matter is that when the front wheels are asked to propel the car and steer it, things become ugly if there's any more than 250HP or so.

Quote:

I hope that when the car comes out and everyone gets to drive it and the mags test it they find it out accelerates the majority of cars out there (I saw one first drive where they estimate the 0-60 time to be 5.9 seconds) and out handles them as well. In fact, I hope it out handles every Lexus model to date just to simply shut that 19 year old jackass up. But hey, I am sure he will keep shooting his mouth off with his useless comments. I will laugh if it outhandles the new GS coming out and to be honest, I bet it will. Oh and I also hope it turns out to be one of the quietest cars in the world (say behind the LS) and one of the smoothest riding but then again, it still won't be a luxury sedan.

A few magazines have already tested the RL, and the fastest time I have seen for a 0-60 is 6.5 seconds. Definitely a quick and respectable time, but definitely not enough to challenge the GS430. SH-AWD will help Acura overcome their FWD dilemmas, but it won't make their cars drive like RWD ones. The car's AWD helps to distribute torque to the other wheels to avoid torque steer and provide grip. Again a few magazines have already driven the car and have said it's much softer than the 5Series or E Class, probably a lot like the current GS. As far as outhandling the GS or IS? Not to sound like a troll, but there's not a chance. Especially the IS, which is preffered over the 3 series by many magazines, and remember the 3 series was considered to be the handling champion. The fact of the matter is that a RWD car with comparable weight, size and power to a FWD or FWD based AWD car will outhandle it EVERY time. I'm not trying to be rude, but it's a fact. I'd have to agree with your assumption about the RL being a luxury sedan, as it's not faster than any of it's rivals, not outhandles any of them.

I understand that you're bitter about the comments wantanewlex made, but comments such as "shut that 19 year old jackass up" aren't going to help win you any votes either.

Quote:

I found it funny reading this thread and having most people just comment on the exterior and ASSume the car is junk because it has a conservative styling...do you people really just buy cars based on the exterior? if so, that is pathetic. Don't know about you but I spend most of my time with my car INSIDE DRIVING IT and I really don't give a rat's *** if some avg joe likes the look of it or not. I have pity for you if you need to have strangers boost your ego by liking the look of your posessions.

So far I find the RL to be much better based on pics/specs than the new GS. Am I allowed to say that around here since I am not blindly on my knees orally servicing the Lexus nameplate? The funny thing is I am a huge Lexus fan (probably have owned more lexus cars than anyone here) but I am mature and comfortable enough with myself that I can like other manufacturers' cars.

It's great that you'd choose the RL over the new GS, and that's the beauty of the automotive industry: the vast number of choices you have within a relative pricepoint. Some may prefer the RWD layout and additional power in the GS, others may like the way the RL looks more or like the way SH-AWD works. Again, wantanewlex's comments may have been a bit corrosive or offensive to you, but the ones you're making in return aren't much better.

All in all I think it's hard to dispute that the RL is a world-class car. Just because it won't outhandle the 545i or shoot past the GS430 on a straight away doesnt make it a bad car, afterall, many Lexus products don't take top spots in their classes for performance. I do have to say that I think the squabbling could be put aside, and a more indepth/mature argument could be had

-Michael-

SecPole14

Thanks for the personal attack.

What do our moderators think? Anyone? Bueller?

-J-P-L-

Interesting debate on RWD/FWD.

I personally prefer RWD but a lot of people prefer FWD. My boss owns a 2003 ES300 but said he wanted a GS. Why the ES? Because the wife told him she wanted a FWD car and of course the GS doesn't fit that profile. The boss had spoken. Point is, many people will NOT buy a car if it is RWD. Look at the Majority of luxury cars and they're RWD or maybe AWD. This means Acura may have an advantage having the only FWD car in this class. This doesn't necessarily sound like a bad thing to me. Oh wait, it will be (SH)AWD
so what are we talking about?

Cadd

Going off topic, I kinda disagree about the IS and the 330i.

We had a Lexus driving event recently (last week?) and we drove ALL Lexus models along with its competitors around an autocross track and a road track (going over 70MPH on the straights).

Before I purchased my GS4, I really thought my next car would be either a 330i, IS3 or G35C. I loved the 330i ever since the E46 came out.

Then with the IS3 came out, lots of talking smack between 3 series and IS3 owners. I have test driven both these cars at the dealership. Felt the same to me since I wasn't pushing it.

During this autocross thing we went to, I really prefer the 330i over the IS3. I'm not talking about power....I'm talking about the way the car handles. The steering of the 330i is so damn awesome!

I also drove the G35S at the event as well, the brakes on that thing puts you through the window!

But back to the RL, some say they need a V8. But why? They're not trying to market their cars to S500, LS430 owners.

Although I would prefer a V8, but would it make a difference if the RL has a V6 300HP engine or a V8 300HP engine? For the average Joe, it wouldn't. The average Joe won't be racing with it. I think it the engine of the new RL is just fine for the intended customers they want to cater to.

doug_999

You mean the existing GS430 which is a technological dinosaur compared to the new RL.

I'm betting the new GS330 with AWD and comparable options will be very close in price to the RL.

LexRexBlue

As an owner of an Acura and Lexus I find this whole thread rather interesting. Last week I tested the TL at the Taste of Luxury. (also tested the BMW 530i and 745i,Mercedes, LS430 on the same course.)I was very pleasantly surprised by the terrific performance on a test track. Forget status labels. Look at the car inside, feel how it drives, compare the prices! I have a RX400h on order, but I admit that I'm interested in the RL for what it offers. I'm not impressed with its looks, but I wonder if I'd fall in love with its driving capabilities. I plan to test drive one. (I'm sure my 400h won't surface for a long time.) I love Lexus service and even complained to the Acura people that theirs didn't measure up. But, I'm willing to give the RL a test drive.

LexusLuver

You're one of the gizmo techy guys. I really don't car much for all that technology since I am more of a basic performance enthusiast.

So far Lexus is calling it the GS300, but I suspect it will be a 3.3L

LexusLuver

Here in Texas rwd/awd is prefered, but you yanks probably like fwd.

When pushed to the limit the front weight bias, and inability to torque steer (I'm not some roadracer) will hamper the car.

Honda knows very well that rwd is best at the track, on the street awd may be prefered. However the RL wt is still biased up front since the motor is transversly mounted. The G35 pulls the motor behind the front axle. I'm thinking Honda's factory is set-up to build fwd cars and they dont want to bother changing it around.

I personally would much rather see an rwd or awd TL/RL than any more fwd biased cars from Acura.