mmarshall

Crude oil just topped $50 a barrel on the international market...a record. We haven't seen the effect yet at the gas pumps, but, after a couple months of at least SOME relief, it looks like it's going to be gouge time again...especially as oil companies divert some of the surplus to start refining heating oil for the winter, and the existing supply for gas gets crunched even more..
So....a new thread: What, in your opinions, CL members, is the best way to deal long-term with this problem of high gas prices that may be here to stay?

1. Get a hybrid gas-electric vehicle like the Prius, Insight, Civic Hybrid, Escape, or the upcoming RX330 / Highlander that will really stretch the gas dollars, qualify for a Federal and some state tax exemptions, and may allow single-occupant HOV access on freeways, but at the cost of a higher price than the straight gas version, a lot of mechanical and electrical complexity, heavy and limited battery packs, not being able to get service and repair at many shops, and possible dealer price gouges due to demand. There are two types of hybrids...."series" and "parallel" ,depending on how the two motors work together, but we won't get into that here.

2. Get a small diesel like the VW Jetta, Beetle, Golf, etc... that will give high mileage without all of the hybrid's complexity and cost, although diesels typically run a little higher in price than gas engines do. They are MUCH better than they used to be in terms of quick starting time, acceleration, quietness, and ease of use, and much less polluting, but they still do not pass emission laws in some states, primarily because of the high-sulfur diesel fuel that is still sold in the U.S. Finding diesel fuel is not always easy in some areas, either...you sometimes have to go to truck stops. At the gas stations that DO have it, however, it is often cheaper than even 87-octane gas. By 2006, by Federal law, we WILL have the low-sulfur diesel fuel available here in the U.S., and then the European diesels will be much more widely available here...currently only VW sells them in significant numbers.

3. Add methyl alcohol to the supply of gas in more areas...currently this is popular only in the Midwest, where there is a vast supply of corn that it can be made from. Alcohol CAN be made from other sources outside the Midwest, though, like sugar beets. Alcohol has many advantages...it burns extremely clean, has very high-octane to resist pinging, does not leave engine or spark plug deposits, and is much safer than gas...it is much less likely to explode or burn. Open-wheel racing converted to it long ago, and it is almost universal in Brazil.
Alcohol, though, has two main disadvantages......first, you need a large fuel tank due to low BTU content and low mileage, and second, it will damage the fuel lines in gas-powered cars if too much of it is mixed with gas. The way around this, of course, is to gradually start converting all new vehicles to alcohol with all-new fuel systems, but that would be a huge project that would take many years. Alcohol cannot be stored in existing underground fuel tanks, either , for several reasons.

4. Keep the gas-guzzling cars we got but simply drive fewer miles by consolidating trips, taking fewer vacations, using other means of transportation when possible, taking advantage of public transit, subways, trains, buses, etc... where offered, ( some employers give employees a transit subsity every month ) and just WALKING a little more to help keep some pounds off.

5. Trade-in our bigger vehicles for conventional (non-hybrid) gas-powered smaller vehicles that will get better mileage on conventional gasoline. Many people , for whatever reason, are driving thirstier vehicles than they really NEED to, but of course, many people simply WANT big engines...... (that, of course, includes many CL members here).

6. Keep the big-engined cars we got, drive the same number of miles, but just learn to start feather-footing the gas pedal, braking more gently, etc... to get better mileage.

7. Give tax incentives to people who own older, lower-mileage higher-polluting cars and ant to replace them with newer, more efficient, lower-polluting ones. This would not only apply to hybrids (as mentioned above) but to high-mileage conventional cars like the Echo, Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent, etc....

8. Give tax incentives to oil companies to invest in more drilling, refineries, pipelines, distribution systems, etc...to increase the supply of gasoline at the pumps....at the cost ( MAYBE ? ) of a litle environmental damage.

9. Other ? None of the above ? Come up with your own ideas?

mmarshall

I purposely did not mention propane, all-electric, fuel cell, or natural-gas vehicles at present because thethey either suffer from serious range problems, are impractical at present, or have inadequate supplies and distribution facilities for these fuels.

J.P.

FUEL CONSUMPTION

Average mid-size Motorcycle 35-40 mpg (est) (250 est gal for 10,000 mi) Average Passenger Car 21.51 mpg (465 gal for 10,000 mi) Average Light Truck/SUV 17.22 mpg (581 gal for 10,000 mi

SupraCoup3

how about we knock out the terrorists in Iraq and then get the Iraqi oil industry online with OPEC, so like the rest of OPEC, they'll be making as much oil as they possibly can...


Seriously though, hybrids are coming, and they're going to come on hard if this gets any worse... gonna be bad news for the oil industry.

Ditto

We are getting jipped by billion dollar companies such as Exxon as we pay higher gas prices. Below is the article from last week I believe. I seriously can't wait till the new Lexus hybrids come out.


"Exxon's profit soars as oil prices, output surge

NEW YORK -- Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, said yesterday that its quarterly profit surged 39 per cent on record oil and gasoline prices, rising production and its best refining results in 13 years.

The Irving, Tex.-based company also increased the pace of its quarterly buybacks of shares in July, putting the energy titan on pace to repurchase about $10-billion (U.S.) of stock a year.

Exxon's second-quarter profit rose to $5.79-billion or 88 cents a share from $4.17-billion or 62 cents in the year-ago quarter."

dj.ctwatt

OPEC is what you can call a collaboration of oil producign countries (firms) that work to act like a Monopoly. If you study economics, the price-demand for oil is almost perfectly inelastic.

Jargon aside, Monopolies work for the sole purpose of making as much profit as possible, which every business does. But with a monopoly, they aren't regulated by the price of competitors. OPEC eliminates any competition in the middle east, and results in extreme price gouging. And you can imagine who gets rich off that. . . not the people of those countries, but rich owners. You want oil prices to go down? I saw a worldwide trade embargo needs to happen on OPEC. It would never happen in reality though, no way. Nope, in the short run, we are screwed. That's why I now own a Scion xA (NOT THE TOASTER). It's no Lexus, but I drive a helluva lot. $50 a tank for the Lexus was too much to bear

However it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than. . . and man, the money saved will be put into very good use, into assests that appreciate. I guess my inner economist got a hold of me. Only when gas money is of no object, will I move into bigger leagues.

But I gaurantee, within the next few months to come, economy cars are going to be selling very well

alexulan

Hmmm. Take the BUS!

Just kidding!


WALK!

Edit: oK i SEE this was #4

LexFather

True we are more efficient in finding oil and pumping it but the reason why the USA will soon be focked....

The surgence of other nations. India, China, etc etc will want more and more oil as they get more and more cars and trucks. Not to mention basic heating etc. We are talking about 2 countries with over 1 billion people.

If cities were designed better, more people could walk, take mass transit, ride a bike. City planning is pretty pathetic.

It's just a big problem no one wants to really tackle as long as we do have oil, no matter $100 a barrel.

bizzy928

I find that if the gas prices jump from .699 to .799 per litre (that is both extremes, cheapest to highest) and I fill 50 litres the difference is only $5.00. Most people who work far away fill two times a week. Thats a $10.00 difference a week.

My point is, there are PLENTY of other things I find I can save on instead of gas. I'll skip out on a coffee two times a week, I won't buy that afternoon snack, I won't buy that magazine etc etc.

It sure beats waiting in line at the pumps!

dj.ctwatt

Did you know that 50 years ago, trains ran more efficiently(time wise) than now? We had spend billions of dollars then (now worth $$$?) for rail/light rail infrastructure.

Unforutantely, (this is documented) GM conspired to sabotage the rail industry, through several freak accidents. They used it to market busses as safer, more reliable means of transportation. . . busses which would segway into automobile sales. Several GM executives were indited and convicted.
However the effect of their campaign had already set place, making busses and automobiles more popular. Hence within the last few decades, under increasing costs and decreasing volume, the rail industry was forced to remove valuable infrastructure. San Francisco and New York remain as the only cities in America with their original light rail remaining.
However with increasing costs of automobiles, not to mention the greatest threat of unnatural death by a large margin, people are once again demanding light rail. To replace all the infrastructure lost, and have an efficient, operational system nation wide, it would cost the US economy 1 Trillion dollars. Thank you very much GM, do you want to split the tab?
Cities around the world, and europe especially, do not face this problem, as light rail/public transport never gave way to automobiles, and if automobiles became accepted, they were in relatively small numbers(percentage to public transport). Therefore in harsh times of expensive oil, and increasing populations, these cities have many alternative means of transportation available, without the barrier costs of infrastructure.
Approximately 85% of ALL the energy used in the US, is used to power automobiles. . . how economically efficient. That's all from crude oil. . . all money going over seas. If you harp about imports vs domestics, and how imported cars send money over seas, you should really walk or ride a bicycle. The aggregate amount of money lost over seas on oil(gasoline) far exceeds the amount lost for automobiles, not to mention that most "Japanese" cars are made in the US, and many "domestic" vehicles are made in Mexico/Canada/Korea.

bits and pieces borrowed from Professor Gene Kelly's lecture on Transportation and Energy (former member of the CA energy commission) and I apoligize for any errors if I copied down material in my notes incorrectly.

Stage3

iTrader: (3)

suck it up and pay it. Put it this way, you are going to spend it anyways, might as well spend it on what you like to do: drive your car.

STIG

stop buying starbucks everymorning and that would be enough for the gas price increase
i will be using #4 in 2 weeks

dj.ctwatt

Yeah, there are those fortunate enough, I'd say most Lexus owners, that can afford the increase in prices, but the mainstream of America is going to feel the squeeze a lot more. . .
with my new car I'm making an annual savings of about $2,400. That's a lot. . . I make my coffee at home (never buy starbucks, man just look at their profit margins-- you pay $3.00 for some milk and hot roasted bean juice). I was never in the market to really *own* a Lexus, but buying used meant considerable savings, and at the time the added expense was worth it.
Now I find that I'd rather choose to drive more, then drive less with a higher quality vehicle. I'm not forcing my decisions down other people's throats either. . . those who can afford very well should. But the rising price of oil should be of concern to everyone. Shipping, manufacturing, and transportation costs will all sky rocket. Even aside from gasoline, crude oil is essential to all forms of production and manufacturing, as well as the manufacture of power/energy. And since gasonline is basically an autonomously consumed good, it means that we will also see inflation hit our economy. Those who choose to ignore the problem, especially those who are more directly involved in the political realm/concern(upper class), can and will hurt their assets with the onslaught of inflation. Something has to be done to drastically reduce the demand for oil(gasoline). . . not to punish drivers, but to stabilize the future economy.

I would like to see a 100% sales tax on SUV's and gas guzzlers for those without legitimate uses, from location of residence, business, and the like. It would help to greatly reduce the use of gasoline and truly place SUV's and gas guzzlers in the category they belong-- luxury.
100% sales taxes are not uncommon. Many countries use them on imported automobiles to push foreign manufacturers to build facilities in their respective countries. OPEC, like I said, needs to burn in flames as well.

Again I can almost be certain that most Lexus owners are rich enough not to be too concerned with the oil price spikes, as the squeeze is truly fealt by the middle and lower classes. But the primary drivers of GDP(through multiple rounds of spending) are these classes. . . and the stability of an upper class depends utterly on the stability of the classes beneath them.

LexusLuver

gas-electric hybrids now, hydrogen fuel cell later

Diesels pollute too much, weigh too much and cost too much when compared to ordinary gasoline engines.

Anyways diesles have been on the market for sometime and apparently have no real advantage compared to the relatively recent hybrid introductions.

In this issue of automobile mag, the Prius stompted the Jetta's city mpg.

LexusLuver