Is AWD going to take over???
08-21-04, 04:46 PM
#16
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Two things I miss about my audi that I don't have in my gs:
stick and awd. Automatics simply aren't as much fun to drive and audi's awd was great. For those of us who live where it rains and snows AWD just can't be beat. For the extra safety, I'd take it even in sunny climates. Its grip just can't be beat. Check out the WRC and behold the wonders of awd.
FWIW, 90 in the rain with good tires and awd can be perfectly safe. I used to love when it was wet outside, I could spank gs4's, corvettes, etc, etc., etc.
If I could get awd and/or manual in a v8 lexus, I'd take either in a heatbeat. My next car will have at least one of those two.
stick and awd. Automatics simply aren't as much fun to drive and audi's awd was great. For those of us who live where it rains and snows AWD just can't be beat. For the extra safety, I'd take it even in sunny climates. Its grip just can't be beat. Check out the WRC and behold the wonders of awd.
FWIW, 90 in the rain with good tires and awd can be perfectly safe. I used to love when it was wet outside, I could spank gs4's, corvettes, etc, etc., etc.
If I could get awd and/or manual in a v8 lexus, I'd take either in a heatbeat. My next car will have at least one of those two.
08-21-04, 10:44 PM
#17
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Originally posted by Xenthar
I dunno. My friend has a turboed IS300 and he also has a Civic Si as his daily driver. Even though his car is FWD, he says it handles better in cornering and when he goes to the canyons. I myself have driven his civic and damn can that thing handle! Even though you can get 50/50 weight distrubution with rwd cars, i dont see any superiority in having a RWD car. I always have to worry about my rear kicking out. All i know is that my friends with FWD cars can take turns way faster than i can with no problem. I guess the only drawback in fwd is torque steer, but its bearable....and the fact that FWD can only handle so much power.
But i do see that AWD systems are really getting into the mix now. Even acura is going to add AWD as an option to all of their cars in the near future after the new RL is released. Infiniti seems to be headed in that direction with the g35x and the upcoming GT-R. Which cars in the lexus lineup if going to have an awd option?
I dunno. My friend has a turboed IS300 and he also has a Civic Si as his daily driver. Even though his car is FWD, he says it handles better in cornering and when he goes to the canyons. I myself have driven his civic and damn can that thing handle! Even though you can get 50/50 weight distrubution with rwd cars, i dont see any superiority in having a RWD car. I always have to worry about my rear kicking out. All i know is that my friends with FWD cars can take turns way faster than i can with no problem. I guess the only drawback in fwd is torque steer, but its bearable....and the fact that FWD can only handle so much power.
But i do see that AWD systems are really getting into the mix now. Even acura is going to add AWD as an option to all of their cars in the near future after the new RL is released. Infiniti seems to be headed in that direction with the g35x and the upcoming GT-R. Which cars in the lexus lineup if going to have an awd option?
08-22-04, 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by 0l33l
Weird. I used to drive bothy mom mom's and grandma's sentras (FWD) on laurel canyon (a really twisty road). I found it really hard to keep the vehicles in control. After I got my SC300 it just seemed like it went where I wanted it to go.
Weird. I used to drive bothy mom mom's and grandma's sentras (FWD) on laurel canyon (a really twisty road). I found it really hard to keep the vehicles in control. After I got my SC300 it just seemed like it went where I wanted it to go.
08-23-04, 07:19 AM
#19
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Originally posted by gs400998
I see lots of Audis here. If Lexus provides AWD option on their cars, Lexus will sell more cars in the snowy states.
I see lots of Audis here. If Lexus provides AWD option on their cars, Lexus will sell more cars in the snowy states.
Yes...right on. This is one of the areas where Lexus has made some big mistakes. They have dragged their feet too long getting AWD into regular sedans and coupes as well as SUV's. That is now starting to be rectified with the new GS....but it should have been introduced with the IS300 like Infiniti has done with the G35.
08-23-04, 07:46 AM
#20
EV ftw!!!
Originally posted by mmarshall
Yes and no. RWD is better for high-speed cornering on DRY surfaces, acceleration from low speeds as the car's weight shifts rearward on the rear wheels, more even weight distribution front-to-rear, more even tire wear, more even brake wear, better steering feel (lack of torque steer), less understeer, easier access to some engine parts, and for keeping some maintenance functions simpler. Traction control, ABS, and stability systems have partially addressed the RWD traction problems but still they lag FWD cars in this area. Otherwise, FWD is better for most drivers, most of the time, under most driving conditions. All other things equal, FWD gives better wet and snow traction, more space and gas efficiency, and more stabilizing effect at higher speeds due to the gyro effects of the spinning driveshafts and the heavy powertrain on the front wheels. Disadvantages, of course, are torque steer at heavy throttle with some designs, uneven tire and brake wear, and more complex work on the front end....you often have to rea-align everything after brake and suspension work.
I myself like AWD even outside the Snow Belt. I'd trade my RWD IS300 in a minute for an AWD IS300 if Lexus would just build one ( and why I've got more than just a passing interest in the new Outback ). At the expense of a little added weight and complexity, AWD gives you the advantages of both RWD and FWD systems combined, even on dry roads, and in my opinion is the way to go unless you want to do powerslides or drifting, which is essentially race-related stuff anyway.
Yes and no. RWD is better for high-speed cornering on DRY surfaces, acceleration from low speeds as the car's weight shifts rearward on the rear wheels, more even weight distribution front-to-rear, more even tire wear, more even brake wear, better steering feel (lack of torque steer), less understeer, easier access to some engine parts, and for keeping some maintenance functions simpler. Traction control, ABS, and stability systems have partially addressed the RWD traction problems but still they lag FWD cars in this area. Otherwise, FWD is better for most drivers, most of the time, under most driving conditions. All other things equal, FWD gives better wet and snow traction, more space and gas efficiency, and more stabilizing effect at higher speeds due to the gyro effects of the spinning driveshafts and the heavy powertrain on the front wheels. Disadvantages, of course, are torque steer at heavy throttle with some designs, uneven tire and brake wear, and more complex work on the front end....you often have to rea-align everything after brake and suspension work.
I myself like AWD even outside the Snow Belt. I'd trade my RWD IS300 in a minute for an AWD IS300 if Lexus would just build one ( and why I've got more than just a passing interest in the new Outback ). At the expense of a little added weight and complexity, AWD gives you the advantages of both RWD and FWD systems combined, even on dry roads, and in my opinion is the way to go unless you want to do powerslides or drifting, which is essentially race-related stuff anyway.
I have never really considered AWD cars, but now I am beginning to see why they could be better cars overall for daily use. I am especially looking forward to the new performance cars from Lexus that will be AWD to boot!
Last edited by Hameed; 08-23-04 at 07:46 AM.
08-23-04, 09:04 AM
#21
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Originally posted by Hameed
I always enjoy reading your comments mmarshal! Your comments always seem to be tempered with an equal dose of positives, negatives and factual information. Not the usual seat-of-the-pants personal stuff.
I have never really considered AWD cars, but now I am beginning to see why they could be better cars overall for daily use. I am especially looking forward to the new performance cars from Lexus that will be AWD to boot!
I always enjoy reading your comments mmarshal! Your comments always seem to be tempered with an equal dose of positives, negatives and factual information. Not the usual seat-of-the-pants personal stuff.
I have never really considered AWD cars, but now I am beginning to see why they could be better cars overall for daily use. I am especially looking forward to the new performance cars from Lexus that will be AWD to boot!
08-23-04, 07:19 PM
#22
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Originally posted by Xenthar
Well a sentra isnt exactly a handling car. I was referring to a FWD car with good suspension. In some cases, a FWD car with a good suspension setup can outhandle a RWD car with similar suspension mods. At least according to my friend. I also agree
Well a sentra isnt exactly a handling car. I was referring to a FWD car with good suspension. In some cases, a FWD car with a good suspension setup can outhandle a RWD car with similar suspension mods. At least according to my friend. I also agree
But another reason why I got a RWD car is so I can go drifting sometimes.A few times I did drive a 99' 5-speed accord. I'd say that the thing handled nicely
08-23-04, 11:54 PM
#23
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AWD, like SUVs, have been hyped to the masses as this "safety feature" that will make your car a magic snowmobile and rainbeater, no matter what. No downsides, except extra cost, and only upsides. I see better starts and better hill-climbing abilities, but more mass to try and stop if you're sliding down a hill.
Anyway, agreed that it's a fad, but one that might not go away. AWD, FWD, RWD, and 4WD are here to stay, methinks. RWD in particular, since even the American Big Three are now starting to catch on that RWD is what many people want.
Anyway, agreed that it's a fad, but one that might not go away. AWD, FWD, RWD, and 4WD are here to stay, methinks. RWD in particular, since even the American Big Three are now starting to catch on that RWD is what many people want.
08-24-04, 06:50 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by Incendiary
AWD, like SUVs, have been hyped to the masses as this "safety feature" that will make your car a magic snowmobile and rainbeater, no matter what. No downsides, except extra cost, and only upsides. I see better starts and better hill-climbing abilities, but more mass to try and stop if you're sliding down a hill.
Anyway, agreed that it's a fad, but one that might not go away. AWD, FWD, RWD, and 4WD are here to stay, methinks. RWD in particular, since even the American Big Three are now starting to catch on that RWD is what many people want.
AWD, like SUVs, have been hyped to the masses as this "safety feature" that will make your car a magic snowmobile and rainbeater, no matter what. No downsides, except extra cost, and only upsides. I see better starts and better hill-climbing abilities, but more mass to try and stop if you're sliding down a hill.
Anyway, agreed that it's a fad, but one that might not go away. AWD, FWD, RWD, and 4WD are here to stay, methinks. RWD in particular, since even the American Big Three are now starting to catch on that RWD is what many people want.
AWD, without question, is a BIG traction advantage on wet / icy roads, especially with winter tires...it is not a fad by any means, and it is going to be the wave of the future on many vehicles. The problem is that too many people think that with SUV's or AWD they can drive on slick surfaces any way they want. Well, it doesn't work that way, and THAT is why there are so many winter accidents even WITH AWD. AWD is not a magic wand...it is simply an aid to starting up and cornering, and in some cases stability. It will NOT help you stop any quicker, as you have noted.
AWD does not have to be any less reliable, either. For years, Honda, Toyota, and, especially, Subaru, have excelled in reliable inexpensive AWD systems.
RWD, however, does have its advantages.....primarily in drive train simplicity, ease-of-maintenance, dry-surface cornering, loose-surface drifting, and lack of torque steer.
08-24-04, 07:28 AM
#25
Pole Position
I hope AWD takes over for sure! Especially in the great white north! just makes sense! A passenger car with AWD makes a lot of sense compared to a bulky heavy SUV just to get that feature.......that's why Subaru makes so much sense & I'm sure in the coming few model years there will be more AWD choices than ever before by all automakers........cause hey! they're finally getting it! 
08-24-04, 08:00 AM
#26
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Originally posted by Hameed
I always enjoy reading your comments mmarshal! Your comments always seem to be tempered with an equal dose of positives, negatives and factual information. Not the usual seat-of-the-pants personal stuff.
I always enjoy reading your comments mmarshal! Your comments always seem to be tempered with an equal dose of positives, negatives and factual information. Not the usual seat-of-the-pants personal stuff.
as far as AWD goes, i've seen it as a very good thing. the best outcome, IMO, is an AWD system like on the STI where you can change the bias front to rear making it onto more and more cars. this would most likely not be available on entry level cars, but more mid to upper level cars.
08-24-04, 08:22 AM
#27
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Originally posted by mmarshall
AWD, without question, is a BIG traction advantage on wet / icy roads, especially with winter tires...it is not a fad by any means, and it is going to be the wave of the future on many vehicles. The problem is that too many people think that with SUV's or AWD they can drive on slick surfaces any way they want. Well, it doesn't work that way, and THAT is why there are so many winter accidents even WITH AWD. AWD is not a magic wand...it is simply an aid to starting up and cornering, and in some cases stability. It will NOT help you stop any quicker, as you have noted.
AWD does not have to be any less reliable, either. For years, Honda, Toyota, and, especially, Subaru, have excelled in reliable inexpensive AWD systems.
RWD, however, does have its advantages.....primarily in drive train simplicity, ease-of-maintenance, dry-surface cornering, loose-surface drifting, and lack of torque steer.
AWD, without question, is a BIG traction advantage on wet / icy roads, especially with winter tires...it is not a fad by any means, and it is going to be the wave of the future on many vehicles. The problem is that too many people think that with SUV's or AWD they can drive on slick surfaces any way they want. Well, it doesn't work that way, and THAT is why there are so many winter accidents even WITH AWD. AWD is not a magic wand...it is simply an aid to starting up and cornering, and in some cases stability. It will NOT help you stop any quicker, as you have noted.
AWD does not have to be any less reliable, either. For years, Honda, Toyota, and, especially, Subaru, have excelled in reliable inexpensive AWD systems.
RWD, however, does have its advantages.....primarily in drive train simplicity, ease-of-maintenance, dry-surface cornering, loose-surface drifting, and lack of torque steer.
I read in your earlier post that RWD are easier to work on? Do you mean drivetrain components, or engine stuff, etc. as well? The reason I ask is because on mid-engine (and I'm guessing rear-engine) cars, whether RWD or not, it'll still be pretty difficult to access many of the components, right?
08-24-04, 08:38 AM
#28
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What I meant about RWD being easier to work on is that you can usually do things up front like changing or working on brake pads, rotors, wheel bearings, steering gear, etc....without having to take the whole front suspension apart and having to realign everything like on strut-type FWD or AWD cars. Also, with RWD there often are fewer boots and U-joints to fool with or to go bad.
08-24-04, 08:48 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
I, too, live in the D.C. area ( Vienna, VA ) like you do, and I agree that AWD is not as much of a necessity in this area like it is in places further N and W like WV, upstate NY, Ohio, etc... But the last few winters here we have had our share of snow, and big blizzards can and do strike here as they move up the East Coast. The only thing that has kept this area from really being a bigger AWD market is the fact that the local Highway Departments throw down tremendous amounts of salt and sand at the first flake, and therefore snow on the roads generally doesn't last very long here. Local people know this....but even so, the sale of AWD hybrids and wagons has just exploded here in the last couple of years.
08-24-04, 09:01 AM
#30
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Originally posted by mmarshall
What I meant about RWD being easier to work on is that you can usually do things up front like changing or working on brake pads, rotors, wheel bearings, steering gear, etc....without having to take the whole front suspension apart and having to realign everything like on strut-type FWD or AWD cars. Also, with RWD there often are fewer boots and U-joints to fool with or to go bad.
What I meant about RWD being easier to work on is that you can usually do things up front like changing or working on brake pads, rotors, wheel bearings, steering gear, etc....without having to take the whole front suspension apart and having to realign everything like on strut-type FWD or AWD cars. Also, with RWD there often are fewer boots and U-joints to fool with or to go bad.