Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Manual Transmissions Losing Grounds to Automatics

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-14-04, 06:08 AM
  #1  
Gojirra99
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Gojirra99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 30,100
Received 224 Likes on 152 Posts
Default Manual Transmissions Losing Grounds to Automatics

More fans of stick shift switch gears

Only 6 percent of all autos will be built with a clutch by 2012

By Eric Mayne / The Detroit News


The stick shift — an automotive mainstay since the invention of the “horseless carriage” — is slowly going the way of the tailfin and carburetor.

Thanks to technological advances and drivers looking for an easier way to navigate congested roadways, the old standard manual transmission doesn’t come standard much anymore.

“One more generation and you’ll probably have people who have absolutely no idea what a three-pedal car does,” said Bill Visnic, senior technical editor of Ward’s AutoWorld, an automotive trade magazine.

By 2012, just 6 percent of all vehicles sold in the North American market will have manual transmissions, according to a forecast by Germany’s ZF Industries, the world’s largest independent transmission maker.

In 2002, 10 percent of vehicles sold in the United States and Canada were equipped with manual gearboxes.

The trend is also occurring in European markets, where manual transmissions are losing ground to automatics. In the United Kingdom, automatic transmission installations are on pace to reach 15 percent of all models, up from 13.5 percent five years ago, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.

Even heavy-duty and commercial trucks are making the switch. Over an eight-year span beginning in 1996, the popularity of automatic transmissions among heavy trucks rose from 5 percent to 18 percent, reports show.

Motoring purists lament the change, claiming car and motorist are only connected when the driver is shifting gears.

But for some, the fun of operating slick new automatic transmissions — some of which enable drivers to shift without a clutch — now rival the old standard gearbox. Increased traffic congestion has reduced the manual experience to drudgery for others.

Edmund Handwerker, a 19-year-old student in New York, has a 1996 Mazda Miata with an automatic transmission. “Everyone asks, ‘How come you don’t get a manual? A Miata should be manual.’ I get that from everyone,” said Handwerker. “I live in Brooklyn and I’m in stop-and-go traffic all the time.”

In a car equipped with a manual transmission, gridlock can mean pushing and releasing a clutch pedal over and over again. And since some pedals are stiffer than others, driving can be physically exhausting. And talking on a cell phone and sipping coffee — favorite pastimes of today’s drivers — is much easier without worrying about shifting gears.


Shifting is not missed

Because Ted Marshall drives 30,000 miles a year in his job selling heating and cooling equipment for K.L. McCoy in Detroit, he made sure his 2004 Pontiac GTO had an automatic transmission. And he doesn’t miss the sporty feeling associated with shifting.

“This car responds anyway — zero to 60 in 5.3 seconds,” said the 41-year-old Grosse Pointe Park resident. Friends who prefer manual transmissions stll razz him.

“They all have Porsches and BMWs,” he said. “As a daily driver, (the GTO) is a much more comfortable car.”

Reversing a decades-old industry marketing equation, Pontiac designated automatic transmission as standard equipment on the GTO. The 6-speed manual, which it shares with the Chevrolet Corvette, is a $695 option.

If manual transmissions become scarce, most dealers won’t grieve.

“We used to have the manual trans available on the Grand Am,” said Ed McDade, sales manager at Ray Laethem Pontiac Buick GMC in Detroit. “When I stocked them, they’d just sit here.

“In the past, the small economical cars with a stick would be the way to go because they were even cheaper. It’s not the case any more.”


Skill is not learned


As automatic transmissions proliferated in the last half-century, fewer and fewer people learned the time-honored skill of coordinating clutch, shifter and throttle, McDade said. And the inability to drive a stick seems to know no boundaries.

Jason Vines, vice president of communications for DaimlerChrysler AG, recalls accommodating a test drive request from an automotive writer from a national publication. The request was for a Dodge Viper.

“We had it delivered and the journalist goes, This is a stick! I can’t drive a stick!’” Vines said, noting Dodge doesn’t offer the Viper any other way.

And pity Roy P. Bougie of Blaine, Minn. He’s doing 10 years for a 2000 carjacking that failed because he couldn’t drive the vehicle he’d stolen.

“The kinds of cars that are jacked tend to be status vehicles,” said Richard Wright, University of Missouri-St. Louis criminology professor. “It’s clear, though, that manual transmissions are not preferred because people can’t drive them.”

Conversely, having the skill can bring rewards.

Al Kammerer, executive director of Ford Motor Co.’s sport utility and body-on-frame vehicles, who will soon take over product development for British brands Jaguar and Land Rover, insisted that his daughter learn to operate a manual transmission.

“She called me up one day and said, ‘Thank you, Dad.’” Kammerer recalled recently. “I said, ‘For what?’ What had happened was, there were two interns working for this publishing house. They had a photo shoot and there was one pool vehicle. It was a manual. The other intern couldn’t drive it, so she got the assignment.”


New technologies simplify

Six-speed automatics and continuously variable transmissions are among the new technologies replacing manuals. Both offer varying degrees of sporty performance and fuel efficiency, but the former can be configured to shift at the flick of a stick.

“It basically allows you to manually override the transmission,” said Paul Olexa, general sales manager at ZF Industries in Northville.

Software prevents the driver from pushing the vehicle beyond its limits.

“If you’re at the rev limit, it will take you to the next gear,” Olexa said.

This, however, can foster a point-and-shoot approach to driving that worries Randy Bleicher, a racing instructor and vice president of Arizona-based ProFormance Driving Events.

“It takes away the true essence of driving,” Bleicher said. “There used to be a skill to driving, the coordination of the feet and hands together. Now, people can go fast without thinking about what they’re doing.”

A driver’s evolution should be gradual, he added, recalling a client’s insistence that he be allowed to drive his Ferrari on ProFormance’s track. The 360 Modena was equipped with paddle shifter and no clutch.

“He went through the fence backwards,” Bleicher recalled.



Source HERE
Gojirra99 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 06:49 AM
  #2  
Technics
Lexus Champion
 
Technics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,720
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Wow. Good article. It makes sense though, the AT's today are leaps and bounds away from the old slush boxes, some of them rivaling the performance of an MT. I'm a diehard MT driver but I suppose I wouldn't mind an AT as long as it was responsive, fast and I had the ability to shift at will. I just hope auto manufacturers eventually don't phase out the manual trans as an option for enthusiasts, I would at least like to have it as an option. Similar to what they did with SC300, with the last offering for an MT being in 97. I guess there wasn't a demand. Even today when people see my car is stick, they ask why would you want to shift in a Lexus? Either you get it or you don't. As far as the bumper to bumper traffic, I do it everyday and I really don't mind, it's like second nature.


And pity Roy P. Bougie of Blaine, Minn. He’s doing 10 years for a 2000 carjacking that failed because he couldn’t drive the vehicle he’d stolen.
LMAO.

Reminds of the movie Buffalo 66 w/ Vincent Gallo. Anybody see that? The part when he's in Christina Ricci's car: "What is this? A shifter car? I can't drive a shifter car!! I'm used to luxury, ya know!! Cadillac Deville! Ever heard of that???!!!"



Last edited by Technics; 09-14-04 at 06:58 AM.
Technics is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 06:57 AM
  #3  
Gojirra99
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Gojirra99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 30,100
Received 224 Likes on 152 Posts
Default

Originally posted by Technics
. . . . As far as the bumper to bumper traffic, I do it everyday and I really don't mind, it's like second nature.
Same here even though I alternate between driving my automatic Lexus with my 6MT G35 coupe all the time. Once you get used to it, you don't even need to think when you shift.

Last edited by Gojirra99; 09-14-04 at 06:58 AM.
Gojirra99 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 07:20 AM
  #4  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 91,212
Received 87 Likes on 86 Posts
Default Re: Manual Transmissions Losing Grounds to Automatics

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SexySC
“Everyone asks, ‘How come you don’t get a manual? A Miata should be manual.’ I get that from everyone,” said Handwerker. “I live in Brooklyn and I’m in stop-and-go traffic all the time.”

lQUOTE]


Another perfect example of automotive stereotype nonsense...I have hit on this many times in other threads. Here is another classic example of preconceived notions that have no base in reality. Miatas...or any other sports car.....don't HAVE to have sticks. In fact, in many areas of the country, you're better off without them.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 07:27 AM
  #5  
Gojirra99
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Gojirra99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 30,100
Received 224 Likes on 152 Posts
Default

I don't think they imply that a sports car Have to have sticks at all, just that many car enthusiasts who love to drive prefer to drive stick with fun, great handling sports cars like a Miata.

Last edited by Gojirra99; 09-14-04 at 07:28 AM.
Gojirra99 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 01:07 PM
  #6  
SecPole14
Lexus Champion
 
SecPole14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I wonder why I live alone here...
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thumbs down

Whatever.

I'm amazed by the number of people who drive autos that use the "bumper-to-bumper" excuse. Guess what? I thought people who wanted to drive stick in that mess were crazy, too, until I tried it for myself. I drive 20 miles every day in bumper-to-bumper traffic in my stick. I don't miss my auto one bit.

In fact, with my stick I know exactly what gear I'm in and don't have to worry one bit about a computer hunting for me. I'm totally in control. It's about the FEEL, the TOTAL EXPERIENCE that only a manual can provide for its DRIVER.

I don't care how good sequentials get, nothing will replace the feeling of clutching in and clutching out. Total driver-car connection. It can't be beat, acceleration figures be damned.

Cars don't HAVE to have stick. But it adds that bit of sportiness and exclusivity auto cannot match. Not to mention for people who truly want to DRIVE, there is no substitute for stick.

By the way, something like a Miata MUST HAVE either a stick, or a true F1-type sequential. A small, sport oriented roadster with a convential auto is simply lame and poseur.


Last edited by SecPole14; 09-14-04 at 01:09 PM.
SecPole14 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 01:20 PM
  #7  
STIG
Lexus Test Driver
 
STIG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SF
Posts: 6,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

i use sequential sport shift but i want something with clutch that i can actually press and let go
STIG is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 04:18 PM
  #8  
thisguy_06
Racer
 
thisguy_06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,265
Received 77 Likes on 59 Posts
Default

I can relate to teh guy with the maita, just about all of my guys friends always tell me that i should've got a manual instead of the Sportronic tranny in the eclipse, but i always say that they've obviously never driven in peak hour traffic conditions in Philly (i'm down there often). The traffic already p*ss me off and if i have to deal with a clutch in traffic, all h3ll will break loose. And with u guys they don't mind doin the clutchin in traffic, i seriously gotta bow down to you guys. Something that i can never do.
thisguy_06 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 04:42 PM
  #9  
SecPole14
Lexus Champion
 
SecPole14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I wonder why I live alone here...
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thumbs up

Oh yeah, by the way, if I ever come across an automotive journalist who cannot drive stick and has the audacity to request a Viper test, I will promptly beat said journalist to within an inch of his life.

Last edited by SecPole14; 09-14-04 at 04:43 PM.
SecPole14 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 04:45 PM
  #10  
SecPole14
Lexus Champion
 
SecPole14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I wonder why I live alone here...
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Question

How many cars (total) are sold in the US every year? What are the lastest figures?
SecPole14 is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 05:10 PM
  #11  
cloudnine
Pole Position
 
cloudnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Maryland
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I think the only kind of driving where an AT is clearly functionally better than an MT is off-road driving, where sometimes you don't want your vehicle to roll back even an inch. Or when your wheels are about to climb over good-sized rocks, and too little throttle will stall your engine, causing more wear to your starter, and too much throttle will cause some dire consequences. A stick will always be more fun to drive, all the time. However, the trend towards doing more and more non-driving chores while driving will ensure that fewer and fewer people drive sticks. I mean, how are people supposed to change CDs, talk on the phone, pull beer can tabs, roll joints, knot their ties, floss their teeth, check their email, etc. etc., while shifting to merge into traffic?
cloudnine is offline  
Old 09-14-04, 09:27 PM
  #12  
time4lexus
Pole Position
 
time4lexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: California
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally posted by wantAnewLex
Whatever.

I'm amazed by the number of people who drive autos that use the "bumper-to-bumper" excuse. Guess what? I thought people who wanted to drive stick in that mess were crazy, too, until I tried it for myself. I drive 20 miles every day in bumper-to-bumper traffic in my stick. I don't miss my auto one bit.

In fact, with my stick I know exactly what gear I'm in and don't have to worry one bit about a computer hunting for me. I'm totally in control. It's about the FEEL, the TOTAL EXPERIENCE that only a manual can provide for its DRIVER.

I don't care how good sequentials get, nothing will replace the feeling of clutching in and clutching out. Total driver-car connection. It can't be beat, acceleration figures be damned.

Cars don't HAVE to have stick. But it adds that bit of sportiness and exclusivity auto cannot match. Not to mention for people who truly want to DRIVE, there is no substitute for stick.

By the way, something like a Miata MUST HAVE either a stick, or a true F1-type sequential. A small, sport oriented roadster with a convential auto is simply lame and poseur.

Ah come on, let people do what they want. Not everyone's after a "FEEL, the TOTAL EXPERIENCE that a manual provides for its DRIVER," that's what girls are for.
time4lexus is offline  
Old 09-15-04, 01:52 AM
  #13  
brian3268
Lead Lap
 
brian3268's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: n
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Abcdefghij

Last edited by brian3268; 08-27-21 at 05:50 PM.
brian3268 is offline  
Old 09-15-04, 03:34 AM
  #14  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 91,212
Received 87 Likes on 86 Posts
Default

Originally posted by fvellani
IAll that said, its a bit hard for me to see why anyone would buy anything other than a manual
Read the opening post in this thread...the one posted by SexySC....... and you'll see why.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 09-15-04, 12:18 PM
  #15  
SecPole14
Lexus Champion
 
SecPole14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I wonder why I live alone here...
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Question

Originally posted by mmarshall
Read the opening post in this thread...the one posted by SexySC....... and you'll see why.
Loosen up??? He meant that jokingly. Of course there are people who are physically (mentally?) unable to drive a manual, those too lazy, and those who "don't want to bother."

I also made a strong argument for manuals, so I think both sides are well-represented here and give a clear overall perspective.
SecPole14 is offline  


Quick Reply: Manual Transmissions Losing Grounds to Automatics



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:29 PM.