I can see how some people could draw parallels from the ES330, RX330, GX470, and LX470... but the GS/SC/LS? Y'all are crazy. Sure there are brother and sister models sold in japan called "Toyotas", but they are still equally nice and equally expensive as the Lexus models here.

So if somebody wanted to say, "Your car is no better than a top of the line Toyota sold in Japan", they would be correct. But if they wanted to say "Your car is no better than a top of the line Toyota sold in the US", they would be completely incorrect. The 1UZ-FE is not found in any US Toyota models, (heck, it's not even in the Toyota Aristo in Japan) nor will it likely ever be. Same with the chassis the GS is founded on, the interior design, the transmission feel, etc, etc. Toyota's top of the line car is the Camry. Go drive that and then go drive the LS430 and tell me if you honestly think the only difference is sound insulation, material quality, and dealer service. If you do, I hope you never get the chance to review cars professionally as you're probably going to have a hard time telling the difference between a Ford F150 and a Chevrolet Corvette at that rate.

 

I don't know if this is meant to be a criticism or a compliment, but It sounds like you are agreeing with much of what I said....especially concerning U.S. market Toyota / Lexuses, which I am referring to. You are incorrect, however, about the Camry...in the U.S.market, the Avalon is Toyota's top product. The Avalon was originally meant to be a Lexus when it was introduced in 1994, but Toyota marketing redirected it. The Camry , in a test-drive, would not be compared directly to an LS430, as you say. The LS430 is much larger, V8, and rear-drive. Toyota does not have a comparable U.S. product to the LS430...it does in Japan.
Even the ES330, which is much more in line with a Camry, can easily be told apart if you are riding in one blindfolded............this is not a matter of professional vs. non-professional. The ES is noticibly quieter and smoother and has much better trim.
And an F-150 vs. a Corvette? Come on, chief.....no contest. First of all, you step way UP to get in a F-150....way DOWN for a 'Vette. Second, the 'Vette has the typical Chevy/Pontiac V8 rumble. Third, the Vette has MUCH faster steering response and almost zero body roll...an F-150 will plow and lean way over in turns.. Fourth, you can tell a Vette by the feel of the fiberglass body panels. Fifth, while both vehicles ride on the firm side, a 'Vette has much less suspension travel.....even with the complex new "Magnetic Ride" shocks. Sixth (and obvious), in a 'Vette you can, even blindfolded, reach down with your right hand and feel a parking-brake handle....not on an F-150. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture.
Another thing: as far as being a "professional" is concerned, some of the CL forum members here, IMHO, do a better job of evaluating cars than some of the people in the formal auto press, especially some of these who do the newspaper auto weeklies....some of those weeklies are awful.

 

anyone who still says the ES is a rebadged or slightly upscale camry is an idiot. Driven both (my parents have owned 3 ES300s in the past) and they aren't close and yes, I have driven my share of camrys as loaners.

As for a person trying to imply the LS430 is just like the Camry or built the same as a Camry...huh/ My mom owns a fully loaded 2001 LS430 (my dad used to own a 97 LS4) and the car is flat out amazing and puts any car (I own an IS300) I have driven/been a passenger in to shame...although the new ES330 (drove one last week) is pretty damn nice and getting close to LS430 luxury levels. The GS4/43 is nice too so i guess maybe the LS doesnt put every car I have been in to shame.

 

Yes I was agreeing with you. I think you missed my point. The F150 vs Corvette was sarcasm on my part, being that they are so apples to oranges. And my point in comparing the LS430 to Toyota's flagship was just that... to say that they are so far apart in terms of feel and such that they can't even begin to be compared and anyone who tries to compare them is going to have a very hard time because they aren't even close to being in the same league.

I named the Camry as Toyota's current top model because AFAIK the Avalon is still based on the extended wheelbase/chassis 1992-2001 Camry chassis. I believe the new model coming out here in the next few months will finally be based on the new 2002 ground up redesigned Camry. So it's just my opinion that the current Camry is a better comparison to the entry-level luxury lexus (ES).

 

It's not a case of that, the ES and Camry share the same platform.

And who's comparing an LS430 to a Camry? If you wanna make comparisons you compare the local model to the JDM model (thank you Mr. Obvious)...

* LS430, Celsior
* SC3/4/430, Soarer etc...

THEN you start comparing the features between Toyotas and Lexus'