Infiniti seeks Chanel's advice; automaker asks for help with selling pricey 2006 M45
11-12-04, 06:53 PM
#16
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Originally posted by Iceman
1SickLex has said it before--they should have rebuilt their brand from the top down. A Q that blew everyone in the market and car magazines away would have done (pardon the pun) infinitely more to get them where they seem to want to go. They're doing this the hard way, which may prove to be the impossible way given the fickle nature of customers and brand loyalty in the wacky world of "luxury goods".
1SickLex has said it before--they should have rebuilt their brand from the top down. A Q that blew everyone in the market and car magazines away would have done (pardon the pun) infinitely more to get them where they seem to want to go. They're doing this the hard way, which may prove to be the impossible way given the fickle nature of customers and brand loyalty in the wacky world of "luxury goods".
G35 is great (best model is the cheapest model)
FX sales are dropping fast.
M34/45 has to overcome the current M45s failure
Q45 is STRONGLY rumored to be discontinued (like the G20, M30, J30, QX4, I35)
QX56 is selling well but a quality disaster.
Imagine Lexus with the new GS coming but a lackluster LS 430. Or a LX 470 made in Mississippi. Imagine Lexus or BMW or Benz or Audi with 5 DISCONTINUED cars!
I mean honestly, if they were SO GOOD, wouldn't us smart consumers buy the product? Or wouldn't the cars win tons of awards?
11-12-04, 08:11 PM
#17
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Thanks. Infiniti has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go. Even with a new M35/45, the lineup is average at best.
G35 is great (best model is the cheapest model)
FX sales are dropping fast.
M34/45 has to overcome the current M45s failure
Q45 is STRONGLY rumored to be discontinued (like the G20, M30, J30, QX4, I35)
QX56 is selling well but a quality disaster.
Imagine Lexus with the new GS coming but a lackluster LS 430. Or a LX 470 made in Mississippi. Imagine Lexus or BMW or Benz or Audi with 5 DISCONTINUED cars!
I mean honestly, if they were SO GOOD, wouldn't us smart consumers buy the product? Or wouldn't the cars win tons of awards?
Thanks. Infiniti has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go. Even with a new M35/45, the lineup is average at best.
G35 is great (best model is the cheapest model)
FX sales are dropping fast.
M34/45 has to overcome the current M45s failure
Q45 is STRONGLY rumored to be discontinued (like the G20, M30, J30, QX4, I35)
QX56 is selling well but a quality disaster.
Imagine Lexus with the new GS coming but a lackluster LS 430. Or a LX 470 made in Mississippi. Imagine Lexus or BMW or Benz or Audi with 5 DISCONTINUED cars!
I mean honestly, if they were SO GOOD, wouldn't us smart consumers buy the product? Or wouldn't the cars win tons of awards?
11-12-04, 11:42 PM
#18
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Originally posted by rominl
what, they are going to discontinue the q45? what does that mean?! no more flagship?
what, they are going to discontinue the q45? what does that mean?! no more flagship?
11-12-04, 11:52 PM
#19
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Thanks. Infiniti has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go. Even with a new M35/45, the lineup is average at best.
G35 is great (best model is the cheapest model)
FX sales are dropping fast.
M34/45 has to overcome the current M45s failure
Q45 is STRONGLY rumored to be discontinued (like the G20, M30, J30, QX4, I35)
QX56 is selling well but a quality disaster.
Imagine Lexus with the new GS coming but a lackluster LS 430. Or a LX 470 made in Mississippi. Imagine Lexus or BMW or Benz or Audi with 5 DISCONTINUED cars!
I mean honestly, if they were SO GOOD, wouldn't us smart consumers buy the product? Or wouldn't the cars win tons of awards?
Thanks. Infiniti has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go. Even with a new M35/45, the lineup is average at best.
G35 is great (best model is the cheapest model)
FX sales are dropping fast.
M34/45 has to overcome the current M45s failure
Q45 is STRONGLY rumored to be discontinued (like the G20, M30, J30, QX4, I35)
QX56 is selling well but a quality disaster.
Imagine Lexus with the new GS coming but a lackluster LS 430. Or a LX 470 made in Mississippi. Imagine Lexus or BMW or Benz or Audi with 5 DISCONTINUED cars!
I mean honestly, if they were SO GOOD, wouldn't us smart consumers buy the product? Or wouldn't the cars win tons of awards?
11-13-04, 12:16 AM
#20
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Originally posted by Xenthar
They might discontinue the q45 name and make another name so that the trail of bad sales in the q45 name will be eliminated when they bring in an all new car. I highly doubt that they would kill off an infiniti flagship.
They might discontinue the q45 name and make another name so that the trail of bad sales in the q45 name will be eliminated when they bring in an all new car. I highly doubt that they would kill off an infiniti flagship.
It's about time we begin to see their best work come state-side with the Infiniti badge. There's no denying that it's a little late in the game.
That said - I wish Infiniti the best of luck. I've had a great experience with my Nissan - and would love to be able to consider another Nissan product in the future. Competition pushes companies towards excellence (think of Lexus' motto: passionate pursuit of perfection) - it's something that should be appreciated and encouraged. There's room for (far) more passion and the continued pursuit by all in the industry.
Here's to hoping for great products a-comin' ...
M.
11-13-04, 12:20 AM
#21
by the way, the G35/G35Coupe won motortrend cars of the year last year. I'm Glad they upgraded all the plastic in '05, esp the silver polish stuff. But I feel bad for my friend with his '04 that he just bought.
Last edited by GRAND_LS 4; 11-13-04 at 12:20 AM.
11-13-04, 08:02 AM
#22
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Originally posted by Xenthar
All you ever talk about is the past. Currently, all the redesigned infiniti models DO win tons of awards. Including the g35 sedan/coupe, FX35/45, and QX56. Next in line will probably be the M35/45. What awards has lexus or audi, etc won recently? Besides the best overall value factor for lexus. And for your information, many current g35 owners are looking forward to upgrading to the M45. So infiniti is doing a good job in creating cars that keep people loyal to the brand. When the q45 gets redesigned, future m45 owners will probably want to get that. Each car that infiniti is introducing has not been a failure. The cars are getting better and better.
All you ever talk about is the past. Currently, all the redesigned infiniti models DO win tons of awards. Including the g35 sedan/coupe, FX35/45, and QX56. Next in line will probably be the M35/45. What awards has lexus or audi, etc won recently? Besides the best overall value factor for lexus. And for your information, many current g35 owners are looking forward to upgrading to the M45. So infiniti is doing a good job in creating cars that keep people loyal to the brand. When the q45 gets redesigned, future m45 owners will probably want to get that. Each car that infiniti is introducing has not been a failure. The cars are getting better and better.
Wait, I'll help you. The FX35 did win one 3 way comparison vs the RX 330 and ML 350 in Motor Trend.
The FX 45 hasn't won anything and the QX, brand spanking new, placed 4th out of 4 in the same Motor Trend.
The Legend just beat the Fuga, winning Japanese Car of the Year and best Technology. We all know that is our RL/M35/45. Not saying the 35/45 is bad at all but it didn't win.
Yes, Infiniti is getting better. We all are very aware of that. We have quite a few Infiniti converts from this forum. The competition is also getting better. No one is resting on their laurels.
If you have an extra day to browse
here are just the Lexus awards, not even all the comparison winshttp://www.lexus.com/about/awards/
11-13-04, 08:02 AM
#23
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Originally posted by GRAND_LS 4
by the way, the G35/G35Coupe won motortrend cars of the year last year. I'm Glad they upgraded all the plastic in '05, esp the silver polish stuff. But I feel bad for my friend with his '04 that he just bought.
by the way, the G35/G35Coupe won motortrend cars of the year last year. I'm Glad they upgraded all the plastic in '05, esp the silver polish stuff. But I feel bad for my friend with his '04 that he just bought.
11-13-04, 08:03 AM
#24
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Originally posted by Xenthar
All you ever talk about is the past. Currently, all the redesigned infiniti models DO win tons of awards. Including the g35 sedan/coupe, FX35/45, and QX56. Next in line will probably be the M35/45. What awards has lexus or audi, etc won recently? Besides the best overall value factor for lexus.
All you ever talk about is the past. Currently, all the redesigned infiniti models DO win tons of awards. Including the g35 sedan/coupe, FX35/45, and QX56. Next in line will probably be the M35/45. What awards has lexus or audi, etc won recently? Besides the best overall value factor for lexus.
11-13-04, 01:05 PM
#25
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Originally posted by Iceman
I agree with most everything you've said except for the price points that would lead to success on the M. I quite honestly don't think Infiniti has the panache to command those prices in a mid-tier sedan. It has nothing to do with whether or not the car is WORTH that price, which is probably why they're talking to Chanel, Gucci, and the like. If you take the Prada triangle off one of their black nylon bags, the thing would sell for $9.99 in a bin in the walkway at Macy's. But that magic badge makes people pay $500 for it. Infiniti's just not out of the bargain bin yet, and I think their success with the G35 will actually hurt them in this regard. Think about it: their renewed brand image is based on their cheapest product.
1SickLex has said it before--they should have rebuilt their brand from the top down. A Q that blew everyone in the market and car magazines away would have done (pardon the pun) infinitely more to get them where they seem to want to go. They're doing this the hard way, which may prove to be the impossible way given the fickle nature of customers and brand loyalty in the wacky world of "luxury goods".
I agree with most everything you've said except for the price points that would lead to success on the M. I quite honestly don't think Infiniti has the panache to command those prices in a mid-tier sedan. It has nothing to do with whether or not the car is WORTH that price, which is probably why they're talking to Chanel, Gucci, and the like. If you take the Prada triangle off one of their black nylon bags, the thing would sell for $9.99 in a bin in the walkway at Macy's. But that magic badge makes people pay $500 for it. Infiniti's just not out of the bargain bin yet, and I think their success with the G35 will actually hurt them in this regard. Think about it: their renewed brand image is based on their cheapest product.
1SickLex has said it before--they should have rebuilt their brand from the top down. A Q that blew everyone in the market and car magazines away would have done (pardon the pun) infinitely more to get them where they seem to want to go. They're doing this the hard way, which may prove to be the impossible way given the fickle nature of customers and brand loyalty in the wacky world of "luxury goods".
Infiniti and Cadillac both have winning formulae right now. Start where the young and affluent buy, because they're more open minded to buying cars based on merit (as well as what the latest fad car C&D is raving about), and build up your base. Let them upgrade to the M35/45 or STS, then bring them to the latest Q or DTS car. (I'm guessing Infiniti will ditch the Q45 for a year or two, then bring it back better than ever, either as a Q or rebranded. I'm also guessing Cadillac will either switch the Deville over to the DTS after this next production run, beginning MY06, or they'll continue with the DTS/Deville, but bring in another line eventually to compete with the S-class/7-series/LS430.)
11-13-04, 01:14 PM
#26
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Originally posted by Incendiary
I don't think they need to build from top down. In fact, if they'd tried to do that, it wouldn't have worked. People buying at the top end tend to be snobbier than those who buy at the bottom end. The Phaeton is failing, despite its excellent merits, because of that. If VW had started building "luxury" competitor cars in the $30k range first, I think they would be selling them well.
I don't think they need to build from top down. In fact, if they'd tried to do that, it wouldn't have worked. People buying at the top end tend to be snobbier than those who buy at the bottom end. The Phaeton is failing, despite its excellent merits, because of that. If VW had started building "luxury" competitor cars in the $30k range first, I think they would be selling them well.
They get less "affluent" buyers, some of whom, after purchasing the more affordable cars, acquire the means to move up the product line a bit. And there are those buyers that buy in at the top because of tradition and established (but eroding) excellence.
M.
Last edited by whipimpin; 11-13-04 at 01:15 PM.
11-13-04, 01:35 PM
#27
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Originally posted by whipimpin
I think BMW and Mercedes have the best of both worlds (we still live in the pre 1-series and a/b-classes era).
They get less "affluent" buyers, some of whom, after purchasing the more affordable cars, acquire the means to move up the product line a bit. And there are those buyers that buy in at the top because of tradition and established (but eroding) excellence.
M.
I think BMW and Mercedes have the best of both worlds (we still live in the pre 1-series and a/b-classes era).
They get less "affluent" buyers, some of whom, after purchasing the more affordable cars, acquire the means to move up the product line a bit. And there are those buyers that buy in at the top because of tradition and established (but eroding) excellence.
M.
If Audi and BMW bring the 1-series and A3 over, though, despite the new design trends and interior qualities and poor reliability ratings, I don't think I'd be able to help myself.
BTW, I know this thread is about Infiniti, but I think the Acura RL is going to be a rocking success. I think it would way overexceed its target sales and oversaturate the market if it were priced more reasonably, i.e. at something like $44,800.
11-16-04, 05:17 PM
#28
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Originally posted by rominl
what, they are going to discontinue the q45? what does that mean?! no more flagship?
what, they are going to discontinue the q45? what does that mean?! no more flagship?
We are told the Q will be built in very small numbers this year. In fact all of the Premium models have been already been built and are in the US.
There will not be a Q in 2006 and in 2007 a new "Infiniti Flaghip" will debut but the odds are that it will not be called a Q. This could well be the last year for the Q. Too much negative baggage with the Q name.
11-16-04, 06:55 PM
#29
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My problem with Infinity recently is their cars simply aren't visually appealing to me.
Their best car dynamically, the G35, is butt-ugly in sedan form to my eye. The coupe is OK, but the door sills are still too high, like you're driving in a bathtub.
And the larger sedans look decent from some angles, but then others, it just looks strange. When you're spending 40k or 50k for a car, it's gotta look impressive too. Infinity's simply dont, IMO.
It started with Nissan in general though, I simply don't like the current generation of Nissans. My g/f owns a 1995 Nissan Twin Turbo, and people stilll turn their heads to watch the car go by. Nissan has lost that kind of magic. For me, it all starts with those oblong headlights on all their cars now. They look like bug-eyes, and it's not attractive.
Unfortunately, they used that look throughout their WHOLE lineup, even their trucks..and right up into their Infinity line. And it makes all their care look disconcerting to me.
Oh well. One day, they will get it right again. I hope.
Their best car dynamically, the G35, is butt-ugly in sedan form to my eye. The coupe is OK, but the door sills are still too high, like you're driving in a bathtub.
And the larger sedans look decent from some angles, but then others, it just looks strange. When you're spending 40k or 50k for a car, it's gotta look impressive too. Infinity's simply dont, IMO.
It started with Nissan in general though, I simply don't like the current generation of Nissans. My g/f owns a 1995 Nissan Twin Turbo, and people stilll turn their heads to watch the car go by. Nissan has lost that kind of magic. For me, it all starts with those oblong headlights on all their cars now. They look like bug-eyes, and it's not attractive.
Unfortunately, they used that look throughout their WHOLE lineup, even their trucks..and right up into their Infinity line. And it makes all their care look disconcerting to me.
Oh well. One day, they will get it right again. I hope.
11-16-04, 07:09 PM
#30
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As one of the guys that have jumped from a Lexus to an Infiniti I guess I can chime in on this topic.
Just picked up a '04 G35 Coupe to go with the wifes '04 FX35 and yes the interior is no way as plush as a Lexus but its not overly cheap as a BMW's interior IMHO.
Fit and finish of both our vehicles is top notch and we haven't had any issues with the FX to date thus is why I jumped into a G35. Time will tell on how good the G35 will be but I am confident. Now I miss the retractable hard top and the wonderful ML sound system in the SC but the Bose system in the Infiniti's aren't too bad.
Marketing wise I think Infiniti should fire their staff and start over because the product is getting alot better and i'd buy one (Yeah I did) over an Acura any day of the week but the ads I see in print or on TV are so dry it makes not want to try the product out. Once you drive the Infiniti product I was sold.
Now would I buy a M35/45 over a GS. Definately not in the first year or two since a Lexus out of the box is far superior over anything Infiniti brings to the table in the first or even second model year but maybe the new M35/45 will prove me wrong. Now do I think the M cars will give the GS a run for the money. Definately because from the changes I see in Infiniti they do listen to the owners and bring improvements to the table alot quicker than Lexus.
On the service end Lexus still treats you like a KING and Infiniti is lacking in this important part of the ownership experience. Winner bar none LEXUS on this point.
Just my take on things Infiniti vs Lexus.
Just picked up a '04 G35 Coupe to go with the wifes '04 FX35 and yes the interior is no way as plush as a Lexus but its not overly cheap as a BMW's interior IMHO.
Fit and finish of both our vehicles is top notch and we haven't had any issues with the FX to date thus is why I jumped into a G35. Time will tell on how good the G35 will be but I am confident. Now I miss the retractable hard top and the wonderful ML sound system in the SC but the Bose system in the Infiniti's aren't too bad.
Marketing wise I think Infiniti should fire their staff and start over because the product is getting alot better and i'd buy one (Yeah I did) over an Acura any day of the week but the ads I see in print or on TV are so dry it makes not want to try the product out. Once you drive the Infiniti product I was sold.
Now would I buy a M35/45 over a GS. Definately not in the first year or two since a Lexus out of the box is far superior over anything Infiniti brings to the table in the first or even second model year but maybe the new M35/45 will prove me wrong. Now do I think the M cars will give the GS a run for the money. Definately because from the changes I see in Infiniti they do listen to the owners and bring improvements to the table alot quicker than Lexus.
On the service end Lexus still treats you like a KING and Infiniti is lacking in this important part of the ownership experience. Winner bar none LEXUS on this point.
Just my take on things Infiniti vs Lexus.