jracerlmn

lol maybe in south cali all the bmw's have more problems than MB and over there it's vice versa

Davtown

If you want to be different, forget the BMW - go check out the Audi A8L at the dealership... stunning cars

Also, CAR picked the A8 over both the 7 and the S in a 3-way comparison. If I can dig up the link I'll post it.

Incendiary

The Audi A8 would be one of my two choices if I were you and looking at luxury sedans in that class, but really I think you should just get a LX470 or something like that. I a huge anti-fan of SUVs, but if your wife really needs to sit high... Or check out the Ford Five Hundred... (j/k)

talgrl626

nano, if it's flagship u r seeking after, how about infiniti's? that's taste right there imo..

J.P.

I love the 745…. But the reports (personal and media) speaks for themselves…..

Wasn’t it voted the most unreliable high end sedan on the market?

The first couple years being the worse! So if your looking used, don’t make that mistake!

I seen the A8 L on the road, and it looks pretty sick. Not knowing how the quality is, I would lean that way, but I will guess the A8 has issues of its own…..

D2-AUTOSPORT

I can understand where you come from on the "flagship" thing. I am a Lexus Lover to the death, but the LS430 does not carry a status torch as bright as a 745 or Sclass. If you parked all 3 next to each other, most would probably see the S and 7 as the "bigger fish". I am going to be looking at a replacement for the GS within 1-2 years myself and have been getting a gameplan together and for me its come down to the S-Class (probably 02-03 depending). As far as pricing goes, the S has pretty hit that depreciation bubble, you can pick up a decent mileage 01 500 for 35-45k depending on options, etc. Also for reference the lights (front and rear), front bumper, hood, grille, NAV screen, interior materials, etc where all upgraded in 03, not 02.

Here are 2 reasons:

1. Styling: I thought about a 745 with a aero kit, 2" drop and staggered 22s but I just cannot bring myself to LOVE the styling of that car. Honestly, if it were not for its ability to support 22" wheels and a slam, I dont think it would as popular as it is. IMO when you buy a car you should LOVE its appearance from EVERY angle, not just the side where you can see its huge wheels. The GS is a great example, no matter where its parked, I stare at it (front rear top whatever). The 7 is just plain goofy looking from a dead on front or rear view. The Sclass IMO is the best looking big sedan out there, its large, but not clumsy looking. My grandfather has had a 01 and now has a 04 S500 sport, and I just stare at his car (just like a stare at my GS). The only other car I have ever lusted after for years like that was the 1st Gen GS (), so hopefully I get to repeat history and live a dream again one day!

2. Reliability: This is a hard pill to swallow, but if you jump from Lexus to a Sclass of 7series you WILL loose reliability, its a fact. I just choose the S because by 02-03 alot more of the kinks had been worked out. Germans do not manufacture the best electronics, yet lately they love to cram their cars chock full of them. If MB/BMW where to outsource production/R&dD of electrical components to Japan, they would probably REALLY hurt Lexus! Its so bad that MB has actually been taking electronic components OUT of some modesl (like Ebraking in the Eclass) My grandad had a few probs with the 01 (window would not go up, some sort of brake servo issue, etc). The 7 series reliablity is SO BAD that BMW has extended the manufacturer warranty to 100k on all 2002 models, even those purchased 2nd hand!


Good luck with your choice.

Gojirra99

If I were you, I'd get the new LS430 & mod it to make it look different. But if you insist you don't want the LS, I suggest you consider the new Audi A8, which is the best looking large sedan on the road today inside & out. Since The 745, S class & A8 are all considered to be less than reliable cars, if you're willing to live with it, why not get the newest & the sharpest looking one in the A8 ? The A8 is also relatively rare compared to the others too.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Well nanotech, more comments on such a good issue.
I am also in this mixed-decision like you too. I want to move up to the more "mature" level, hence the LS or 7 series.
From my personal experiences:

We have a 2001 S500 , about 15k miles (family car). Pretty boring as stock, but nice with an amg kit or lorinser kit. During the warranty period:
1. recall for battery/trunk liner replacement due to static build-up that might create electrical problem?
2. driver seat nuts replaced, garage door opener antennae replaced (weak signal), ac relay for vents replaced, relay for airmatic replaced (shocks did not go out or dropped to the floor unlike other S)
3. airbag sensor replaced on front passenger side.
4. recent recall-need to replace fuse holder for ___________??? I forgot, need to find that letter....

So far, I haven't been stranded or had the engine die on me......knock on wood.

This may sound like a lot of work but didn't affect the car being immobilized or parked in the garage as a decorating ornament

_______________________________________________________________________________
LS: it is a little boring on the outside, so you have a body kit will fix it. I love the 430, black with a wald kit and some nice rims.
The interior is beauuuuuutiful, imo.

Can't argue with reliability except for the 2004 transmission recall, but under warranty.
_________________________________________________________________________________
I've been falling in love with the 745. Haven't driven one or experienced one, but I would trade in the S for it.

So much gadget galore, much more than the S, personally I love it. My friend has a 2004 since May. She only brought it in for cd repair and 2 recalls for some software update? I haven't experienced the nightmare so I'm just going by emotions.
She hasn't been stranded so far unlike the horror stories for the 2002.
So, DON'T BUY A 2002!!!
__________________________________________________________________________________

Like what D2 said perfectly, the LS doesn't carry that "status torch" unlike the S or 7.
Part of the reason for me b/c it seems smaller than other flagships. It doesn't have that "mega-sedan stance".
LS: 197"
S : 203"
745/745 Li: 198"/203"
don't know how the LS is only 1" shorter than the 745??? 745 looks way bigger???

The problem with most of us car nuts is that we tend get bored maybe too quickly with one car and want something different . I haven't been a BMW fan my whole life, but being in the minority, I LOVE the 745, much more than the S class and LS. Wait until I experience the headache then I'll come crawling back to the LS

pictures are too small

LexFather

That is HARD!!!

mmarshall

I don't recommend the 745 at all......or any of the other newer Chris Bangle BMW 7-series. The controls in them.....particularly the I-Drive.......will drive you nuts. Just starting the engine and putting the transmission in gear is a whole training course. And, to top it off........as other posters here (and Consumer Reports) will verify.......they spend more time in the shop than they do out, primarily due to lousy electronics and hardware.

My recommendation? Get the LS430. If you are tired of Lexus products and want something else in the flagship class (as you indicate) look at the Infiniti Q45....another well-made, reliable product. Q's sell for substantially lower prices than LS'es do for two reasons: First, they have lower prices to start with, and second, the dealers HAVE to discount them steeply to move them off the lots....they never have had the LS'es popularity.
If you don't like the Q, then look at the new Acura RL. While it still does not have a V8, it DOES have a new 300 HP V6 and a special new form of All-Wheel-Drive that varies not only individual wheel torque but RPM as well for optimum handling....something that neither the LS430 or the Q45 can offer.

Jay

iTrader: (3)

Hahahahah LOL ... SUp Romini !!! I got this "addiction" where "I buy cars but don't want to sell addiction".

..... here's my toyz....

1998 Range Rover 4.0SE
1989 Porsche 944S
1999 Porsche Carrera GT2 (Sold)
2004 BMW 745LI
1999 Mercedes Benz CL600 (I'm not selling this one)
1995 Nissan 240sx (Sold)
1998 Lexus GS300 2JZGTE
1996 Lexus SC300 5 spd (Sold)
2004 Lexus IS300

I'm not sure about Jaguar as a "reliable" car !!! (Based on my friends' experience) I love Lexus, don't get me wrong..... Reliable ?? YES 100% most definitely reliable. Probably better than any other European cars !!!

JAY

Rexdr

Great topic. I'll try to keep it short. Look at what you said above and take into consideration the known and stated facts of cars other than Lexus. You will have less reliability. If one of your concerns is wanting to be a proud owner of a flagship, then yes, you will get less attention in the LS. However, your car will still be recognized by enthusiasts as a flagship regardless. Personally, I've always been a kind of low profile kinda guy..."walk softly but carry a big stick", which is why I like the LS. If modded in a classy way you can make it look just as nice as any of the heavy hitters without being too flashy. It all depends on the route you want to take. Be assured you won't lose which ever direction you go. Good luck.

mmarshall

Yes and no. Consumer Reports has Lexus and Infiniti, nameplate-wise, which takes all of their products into consideration, in a virtual tie for first and second-place, reliability-wise, for the first three years. Acura, not quite as high, follows closely behind....also well above average.
But the rest of the luxury-car market.....I agree with you. Cadillac, Lincoln, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, Volvo......all of these nameplates, as a whole, are below average in reliability.

mmarshall

Well, I'm not going to defend Chris Bangle and his cars, but the truth is that almost all of your European nameplates now have unreliable electronics, for a variety of reasons....not just BMW. If you look at the recent repair records of Mercedes, Volvos, Audis, and especially, Volkswagens, you will see many of the same patterns.......problems with headlights, taillights, voltage regulators, ignition systems, wiring, and especially, the electrohydraulic braking systems.
The fact is the Japanese, and more recently, the American and South Korean nameplates, are simply outdoing the Europeans in reliability. It is a fact of automotive life.

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

i guess i can have a small say in this.. im 17 an own the 02 gs430.. and i love it!.. its a great ride compared to what most kids my age get... actually.. now that i think about it.. a lot of the kids i am around with have nice cars... but thats another subject... thumbs up to your son first who is getting his 430..

now abou tthe 7 series... my friend's brother has the 745i. He also owns the RSX type S but likes to pimp the 745 when i come around with the 430. Needless to say, the bimmer is one beautiful car.. i like ALL shots of it and it truly is a wonderful looking vehicle. Now, the bad parts about it.. most of the people have already said this but it has MAJOR electronical issues. The car stops without warning, sometimes it doesnt start, and a lot of interior electroncial problems. My friends brother tried to strightline with me at a light but i floored my gs, his 7 series was still at the line with the engine turned off and the emergency lights flashing. the 7 series just has too many problems that i don't think you wanna deal with...

IMO... get the LS430 and mod it. Or you can just go ALL out and get a E55... or the new S600... chyea!

just my $0.02