GS430 fanatic, now considering 745i
12-01-04 | 09:08 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: IL
Couple of thoughts...
1. I drove a 2004 745iL the other day and it was amazing. I also drove a 2004 745i with sports package and believe it or not, I preferred the IL without sports package. The comfort seats are AMAZING on that car. The iDrive is not fun, but seriously does not take that long to get used to. The car blew away my GS430 in terms of driving dynamics (then again, what BMW doesn't ?).
2. Spoke with a service manager about the 745s recently - he said the 2002s were terrible, the early 2003s were better and by late 2003 they really had all of the kinks worked out of them. So get a later build 2003 - alternatively a 2002 S8 would be a very cool choice as well.
1. I drove a 2004 745iL the other day and it was amazing. I also drove a 2004 745i with sports package and believe it or not, I preferred the IL without sports package. The comfort seats are AMAZING on that car. The iDrive is not fun, but seriously does not take that long to get used to. The car blew away my GS430 in terms of driving dynamics (then again, what BMW doesn't ?).
2. Spoke with a service manager about the 745s recently - he said the 2002s were terrible, the early 2003s were better and by late 2003 they really had all of the kinks worked out of them. So get a later build 2003 - alternatively a 2002 S8 would be a very cool choice as well.
12-01-04 | 11:24 PM
#47
Wow, a lot of interesting thoughts. I didn't think this was going to be such a popular thread. Thanks guys!
About the 745il:
I think you guys have pretty much talked me out of the 745il. I myself love its looks all around except maybe the front sometimes, but then again I don't like the GS from the front either (I love its side and back though). From what you guys are saying and what I am hearing elsewhere, if its going to be a 745il then it has to be atleast a late 03 or even an 04....and I don't want to put that much cash into a car right now.
About the LS430:
I walked past a white 04 LS430 today. I have to say that I actually liked it quite a bit. Like I said, I don't mind the front and the side is ok....its just the back that I thought was a bit boring. But then I did notice that it has a classic luxury car look from the back....big and boxy. And by the way, I don't really like to change the shape outrageously with body kits and all.....most of the LS430 pictures you guys posted aren't too appealing to me. I like a more refined classier look.....would never put a spoiler on an LS430!!! The interior of the LS430 is superb, best out of all I think. And ofcourse, there is no question about reliability. But I don't like the older LS430, only the newer one. Seems as if the newer one will cost me a pretty penny though, and once again, I don't want to spend so much on a car right now (I hate taking the depreciation hits).
About the S-Class:
As I was walking past the LS, I walked further and saw an 03/04 S-Class also. It was beige color...the lights were alright, but it wasn't as stunning as the LS (they did well with the new LS front). The S-class back looks SWEET though. Interior, not as nice as LS and ofcourse its not as reliable. In addition, compared to the 745il, I don't think the S-Class is that great.
About the Audi:
It's not on their website! I want to learn more about it, but I am sure since its new I won't be able to get it less than $70k. But I would like to atleast learn about it.
About the Infiniti:
I pretty much hate the way the Q45 looks, sorry.
So, all in all, most of the cars I want I will have to have brand new (04 LS, 04 745il, 04 Audi)....which means I can't get them because I am looking to spend less than $50k total. In fact, after this thread, I have changed my outlook on what I think I am going to get all together. Like I said earlier, my wife prefers a minivan or suv because of her handicap, its easier for her to enter/exit. So I am looking more towards that right now. I think I will just get an SUV and then add a flagship to my lineup about a year from today...maybe then I can get a good deal on a used 04 745il?!?
Out of the large 8-passenger SUV's, here is what I am considering:
04 Infiniti Q56
03 Navi
99-01 LX470
The Escalade still looks too much like a luxurized truck, and the inside is crappy.
The old Navi looks boring.
My dream SUV would be something the size of the Escalade ESV (HUGE), the interior of the QX56/LX470/New Navi, with the relaibilty of the LX470, cool features like of the QX56, and an engine comparable to the RX400h (hybrid for long drives and 40mpg instead of 15!). But I will probably have to wait another 5 yrs for that.
As for the current selection, I can probably get a 99-01 LX470 for around $24k (pearl white) which is really good for my price range. I can probably get an 03 Navi for about $30k, again not so bad price wise. And finally, an 04 used QX56 for about $40k.....a little higher than what I would want to spend on an SUV, but, its worth it I think for the QX56.
But then I think of spending almost twice as much for the QX56 than for the LX470 and I start to think if the QX56 is actually going to give me twice the enjoyment all throughout......?
This changes the thread quite a bit, however, I appreciate your responses.
About the 745il:
I think you guys have pretty much talked me out of the 745il. I myself love its looks all around except maybe the front sometimes, but then again I don't like the GS from the front either (I love its side and back though). From what you guys are saying and what I am hearing elsewhere, if its going to be a 745il then it has to be atleast a late 03 or even an 04....and I don't want to put that much cash into a car right now.
About the LS430:
I walked past a white 04 LS430 today. I have to say that I actually liked it quite a bit. Like I said, I don't mind the front and the side is ok....its just the back that I thought was a bit boring. But then I did notice that it has a classic luxury car look from the back....big and boxy. And by the way, I don't really like to change the shape outrageously with body kits and all.....most of the LS430 pictures you guys posted aren't too appealing to me. I like a more refined classier look.....would never put a spoiler on an LS430!!! The interior of the LS430 is superb, best out of all I think. And ofcourse, there is no question about reliability. But I don't like the older LS430, only the newer one. Seems as if the newer one will cost me a pretty penny though, and once again, I don't want to spend so much on a car right now (I hate taking the depreciation hits).
About the S-Class:
As I was walking past the LS, I walked further and saw an 03/04 S-Class also. It was beige color...the lights were alright, but it wasn't as stunning as the LS (they did well with the new LS front). The S-class back looks SWEET though. Interior, not as nice as LS and ofcourse its not as reliable. In addition, compared to the 745il, I don't think the S-Class is that great.
About the Audi:
It's not on their website! I want to learn more about it, but I am sure since its new I won't be able to get it less than $70k. But I would like to atleast learn about it.
About the Infiniti:
I pretty much hate the way the Q45 looks, sorry.
So, all in all, most of the cars I want I will have to have brand new (04 LS, 04 745il, 04 Audi)....which means I can't get them because I am looking to spend less than $50k total. In fact, after this thread, I have changed my outlook on what I think I am going to get all together. Like I said earlier, my wife prefers a minivan or suv because of her handicap, its easier for her to enter/exit. So I am looking more towards that right now. I think I will just get an SUV and then add a flagship to my lineup about a year from today...maybe then I can get a good deal on a used 04 745il?!?
Out of the large 8-passenger SUV's, here is what I am considering:
04 Infiniti Q56
03 Navi
99-01 LX470
The Escalade still looks too much like a luxurized truck, and the inside is crappy.
The old Navi looks boring.
My dream SUV would be something the size of the Escalade ESV (HUGE), the interior of the QX56/LX470/New Navi, with the relaibilty of the LX470, cool features like of the QX56, and an engine comparable to the RX400h (hybrid for long drives and 40mpg instead of 15!). But I will probably have to wait another 5 yrs for that.
As for the current selection, I can probably get a 99-01 LX470 for around $24k (pearl white) which is really good for my price range. I can probably get an 03 Navi for about $30k, again not so bad price wise. And finally, an 04 used QX56 for about $40k.....a little higher than what I would want to spend on an SUV, but, its worth it I think for the QX56.
But then I think of spending almost twice as much for the QX56 than for the LX470 and I start to think if the QX56 is actually going to give me twice the enjoyment all throughout......?
This changes the thread quite a bit, however, I appreciate your responses.
Last edited by nanotech; 12-01-04 at 11:25 PM.
12-02-04 | 05:49 AM
#48
suv
You may have to ask your question in the suv section. I don't know about others but I have no opions on suv's since I've never considered getting one. I know this isn't necessary but I actually hate suv's. They block your view when you're behind them. People usually drive slower in them...especially if they're using the cell. The biggest trip is a lot of them have no more interior space than a car. This really confuses me because why would someone want a great big car based vehicle when they don't need it.
At least you have a need, that's okay. I meet too many people who buy them just because.....
At least you have a need, that's okay. I meet too many people who buy them just because.....
12-02-04 | 06:04 AM
#49
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Before jumping over to an SUV, I would ask the following questions:
1) Why do I want one? Is it for towing, cargo, passengers or the cool factor?
2) How much do I plan on spending bc some of those trucks you mentioned will get up there fast?
As for the QX56, I would avoid that SUV for at least another few years. That truck was recently released, and from some of the reviews, that truck has has very poor ratings in build quality and reliability. It is the same truck as the Nissan Pathfinder Aramada.
FWIW..Rob
1) Why do I want one? Is it for towing, cargo, passengers or the cool factor?
2) How much do I plan on spending bc some of those trucks you mentioned will get up there fast?
As for the QX56, I would avoid that SUV for at least another few years. That truck was recently released, and from some of the reviews, that truck has has very poor ratings in build quality and reliability. It is the same truck as the Nissan Pathfinder Aramada.
FWIW..Rob
Originally posted by nanotech
Wow, a lot of interesting thoughts. I didn't think this was going to be such a popular thread. Thanks guys!
About the 745il:
I think you guys have pretty much talked me out of the 745il. I myself love its looks all around except maybe the front sometimes, but then again I don't like the GS from the front either (I love its side and back though). From what you guys are saying and what I am hearing elsewhere, if its going to be a 745il then it has to be atleast a late 03 or even an 04....and I don't want to put that much cash into a car right now.
About the LS430:
I walked past a white 04 LS430 today. I have to say that I actually liked it quite a bit. Like I said, I don't mind the front and the side is ok....its just the back that I thought was a bit boring. But then I did notice that it has a classic luxury car look from the back....big and boxy. And by the way, I don't really like to change the shape outrageously with body kits and all.....most of the LS430 pictures you guys posted aren't too appealing to me. I like a more refined classier look.....would never put a spoiler on an LS430!!! The interior of the LS430 is superb, best out of all I think. And ofcourse, there is no question about reliability. But I don't like the older LS430, only the newer one. Seems as if the newer one will cost me a pretty penny though, and once again, I don't want to spend so much on a car right now (I hate taking the depreciation hits).
About the S-Class:
As I was walking past the LS, I walked further and saw an 03/04 S-Class also. It was beige color...the lights were alright, but it wasn't as stunning as the LS (they did well with the new LS front). The S-class back looks SWEET though. Interior, not as nice as LS and ofcourse its not as reliable. In addition, compared to the 745il, I don't think the S-Class is that great.
About the Audi:
It's not on their website! I want to learn more about it, but I am sure since its new I won't be able to get it less than $70k. But I would like to atleast learn about it.
About the Infiniti:
I pretty much hate the way the Q45 looks, sorry.
So, all in all, most of the cars I want I will have to have brand new (04 LS, 04 745il, 04 Audi)....which means I can't get them because I am looking to spend less than $50k total. In fact, after this thread, I have changed my outlook on what I think I am going to get all together. Like I said earlier, my wife prefers a minivan or suv because of her handicap, its easier for her to enter/exit. So I am looking more towards that right now. I think I will just get an SUV and then add a flagship to my lineup about a year from today...maybe then I can get a good deal on a used 04 745il?!?
Out of the large 8-passenger SUV's, here is what I am considering:
04 Infiniti Q56
03 Navi
99-01 LX470
The Escalade still looks too much like a luxurized truck, and the inside is crappy.
The old Navi looks boring.
My dream SUV would be something the size of the Escalade ESV (HUGE), the interior of the QX56/LX470/New Navi, with the relaibilty of the LX470, cool features like of the QX56, and an engine comparable to the RX400h (hybrid for long drives and 40mpg instead of 15!). But I will probably have to wait another 5 yrs for that.
As for the current selection, I can probably get a 99-01 LX470 for around $24k (pearl white) which is really good for my price range. I can probably get an 03 Navi for about $30k, again not so bad price wise. And finally, an 04 used QX56 for about $40k.....a little higher than what I would want to spend on an SUV, but, its worth it I think for the QX56.
But then I think of spending almost twice as much for the QX56 than for the LX470 and I start to think if the QX56 is actually going to give me twice the enjoyment all throughout......?
This changes the thread quite a bit, however, I appreciate your responses.
Wow, a lot of interesting thoughts. I didn't think this was going to be such a popular thread. Thanks guys!
About the 745il:
I think you guys have pretty much talked me out of the 745il. I myself love its looks all around except maybe the front sometimes, but then again I don't like the GS from the front either (I love its side and back though). From what you guys are saying and what I am hearing elsewhere, if its going to be a 745il then it has to be atleast a late 03 or even an 04....and I don't want to put that much cash into a car right now.
About the LS430:
I walked past a white 04 LS430 today. I have to say that I actually liked it quite a bit. Like I said, I don't mind the front and the side is ok....its just the back that I thought was a bit boring. But then I did notice that it has a classic luxury car look from the back....big and boxy. And by the way, I don't really like to change the shape outrageously with body kits and all.....most of the LS430 pictures you guys posted aren't too appealing to me. I like a more refined classier look.....would never put a spoiler on an LS430!!! The interior of the LS430 is superb, best out of all I think. And ofcourse, there is no question about reliability. But I don't like the older LS430, only the newer one. Seems as if the newer one will cost me a pretty penny though, and once again, I don't want to spend so much on a car right now (I hate taking the depreciation hits).
About the S-Class:
As I was walking past the LS, I walked further and saw an 03/04 S-Class also. It was beige color...the lights were alright, but it wasn't as stunning as the LS (they did well with the new LS front). The S-class back looks SWEET though. Interior, not as nice as LS and ofcourse its not as reliable. In addition, compared to the 745il, I don't think the S-Class is that great.
About the Audi:
It's not on their website! I want to learn more about it, but I am sure since its new I won't be able to get it less than $70k. But I would like to atleast learn about it.
About the Infiniti:
I pretty much hate the way the Q45 looks, sorry.
So, all in all, most of the cars I want I will have to have brand new (04 LS, 04 745il, 04 Audi)....which means I can't get them because I am looking to spend less than $50k total. In fact, after this thread, I have changed my outlook on what I think I am going to get all together. Like I said earlier, my wife prefers a minivan or suv because of her handicap, its easier for her to enter/exit. So I am looking more towards that right now. I think I will just get an SUV and then add a flagship to my lineup about a year from today...maybe then I can get a good deal on a used 04 745il?!?
Out of the large 8-passenger SUV's, here is what I am considering:
04 Infiniti Q56
03 Navi
99-01 LX470
The Escalade still looks too much like a luxurized truck, and the inside is crappy.
The old Navi looks boring.
My dream SUV would be something the size of the Escalade ESV (HUGE), the interior of the QX56/LX470/New Navi, with the relaibilty of the LX470, cool features like of the QX56, and an engine comparable to the RX400h (hybrid for long drives and 40mpg instead of 15!). But I will probably have to wait another 5 yrs for that.
As for the current selection, I can probably get a 99-01 LX470 for around $24k (pearl white) which is really good for my price range. I can probably get an 03 Navi for about $30k, again not so bad price wise. And finally, an 04 used QX56 for about $40k.....a little higher than what I would want to spend on an SUV, but, its worth it I think for the QX56.
But then I think of spending almost twice as much for the QX56 than for the LX470 and I start to think if the QX56 is actually going to give me twice the enjoyment all throughout......?
This changes the thread quite a bit, however, I appreciate your responses.
12-02-04 | 12:53 PM
#50
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Originally posted by tetra7
As for the QX56, I would avoid that SUV for at least another few years. That truck was recently released, and from some of the reviews, that truck has has very poor ratings in build quality and reliability. It is the same truck as the Nissan Pathfinder Aramada.
As for the QX56, I would avoid that SUV for at least another few years. That truck was recently released, and from some of the reviews, that truck has has very poor ratings in build quality and reliability. It is the same truck as the Nissan Pathfinder Aramada.
Last edited by DwnUnder23; 12-02-04 at 01:11 PM.
12-02-04 | 01:11 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by DwnUnder23
Poor reliability for the QX56? it's only been out this year, where did your hear that?
Poor reliability for the QX56? it's only been out this year, where did your hear that?
Even the magazine reviews have been less than flattering.http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...c01-327244.htm
Last edited by LexFather; 12-02-04 at 01:15 PM.
12-02-04 | 01:35 PM
#52
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
It has awful reliablity. Rattles, things not working, bad brakes etc. Go to any Nissan forum and read for yourself. It is built in Mississippi where Nissan shipped 200 engineers from Japan to find out what was wrong. They blamed the workers. Even the magazine reviews have been less than flattering.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...c01-327244.htm
It has awful reliablity. Rattles, things not working, bad brakes etc. Go to any Nissan forum and read for yourself. It is built in Mississippi where Nissan shipped 200 engineers from Japan to find out what was wrong. They blamed the workers.
Even the magazine reviews have been less than flattering.http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...c01-327244.htm
Most actual owners (not news reports) have had good luck with them with only a few with some bad experiences (every car does at some point or another) but it doesn’t have “awful” reliability:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/infi...ox.1.Infiniti*
12-02-04 | 04:16 PM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: MD
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
It has awful reliablity. Rattles, things not working, bad brakes etc. Go to any Nissan forum and read for yourself. It is built in Mississippi where Nissan shipped 200 engineers from Japan to find out what was wrong. They blamed the workers. Even the magazine reviews have been less than flattering.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...c01-327244.htm
It has awful reliablity. Rattles, things not working, bad brakes etc. Go to any Nissan forum and read for yourself. It is built in Mississippi where Nissan shipped 200 engineers from Japan to find out what was wrong. They blamed the workers.
Even the magazine reviews have been less than flattering.http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...c01-327244.htm
Anyway, nanotech, I don't actually understand why an SUV would be easier for your wife to get into if she's handicapped. However, the Ford Five Hundred was designed for people like you in mind. A little higher up to get that SUV-like feeling of being high on the road, and also to make it a little easier to enter/exit. Not exactly a flagship, but maybe you should take a look just to see if you and your wife like the ride height.
12-02-04 | 06:07 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by DwnUnder23
Those are minor things and it doesn't happen to all of them.
Most actual owners (not news reports) have had good luck with them with only a few with some bad experiences (every car does at some point or another) but it doesn’t have “awful” reliability:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/infi...ox.1.Infiniti*
Those are minor things and it doesn't happen to all of them.
Most actual owners (not news reports) have had good luck with them with only a few with some bad experiences (every car does at some point or another) but it doesn’t have “awful” reliability:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/infi...ox.1.Infiniti*
Well, give those owners 2 years. Between the re-sale value of a melted snicker and the issues appearing, their views will change significantly. You can already get QXs for 4k off MSRP.
12-02-04 | 08:45 PM
#55
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Welcome to Clublexus. I don't mean to come off as harsh. Well, give those owners 2 years. Between the re-sale value of a melted snicker and the issues appearing, their views will change significantly. You can already get QXs for 4k off MSRP.
Welcome to Clublexus. I don't mean to come off as harsh.
Well, give those owners 2 years. Between the re-sale value of a melted snicker and the issues appearing, their views will change significantly. You can already get QXs for 4k off MSRP.
Last edited by DwnUnder23; 12-02-04 at 08:45 PM.
12-02-04 | 10:14 PM
#56
Hello again,
I am definitely not getting an SUV for the "coolness factor." I need it because its big enough to where all my family can travel comfortably for long distances. Plus its easier for my wife to enter and exit because she can walk but one of her legs is actually a prosthetic so she just feels more secure when she slides UP into a van or suv rather than having to fall down onto the seat of a car.
Nobody said anything about the Navi?
I am definitely not getting an SUV for the "coolness factor." I need it because its big enough to where all my family can travel comfortably for long distances. Plus its easier for my wife to enter and exit because she can walk but one of her legs is actually a prosthetic so she just feels more secure when she slides UP into a van or suv rather than having to fall down onto the seat of a car.
Nobody said anything about the Navi?
12-02-04 | 10:19 PM
#57
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Good then..well if those are your requirements, then why not these choices?
1) Toyota's new minivan which is definitely on par with Lexus
2) Some of the new station wagons coming out like the AllRoad by Audi..some Volvos?
Sounds like you want something with a more commanding view and ppl carrier. You did not state you needed either cargo room or towing capacity. So, I would eliminate the SUVs and look at the other two options IMO.
FWIW...Rob
1) Toyota's new minivan which is definitely on par with Lexus
2) Some of the new station wagons coming out like the AllRoad by Audi..some Volvos?
Sounds like you want something with a more commanding view and ppl carrier. You did not state you needed either cargo room or towing capacity. So, I would eliminate the SUVs and look at the other two options IMO.
FWIW...Rob
Originally posted by nanotech
Hello again,
I am definitely not getting an SUV for the "coolness factor." I need it because its big enough to where all my family can travel comfortably for long distances. Plus its easier for my wife to enter and exit because she can walk but one of her legs is actually a prosthetic so she just feels more secure when she slides UP into a van or suv rather than having to fall down onto the seat of a car.
Nobody said anything about the Navi?
Hello again,
I am definitely not getting an SUV for the "coolness factor." I need it because its big enough to where all my family can travel comfortably for long distances. Plus its easier for my wife to enter and exit because she can walk but one of her legs is actually a prosthetic so she just feels more secure when she slides UP into a van or suv rather than having to fall down onto the seat of a car.
Nobody said anything about the Navi?
12-02-04 | 10:26 PM
#59
No way to station wagons and I want a BIG suv, so I don't want the GX470 (plus I dont like the way it looks).
I was actually considering the Sequoia....but I think I want to really stay up in the "luxury" segment, my brother-in-law already has a Sequoia Limited, and 3 of my brothers already have Sienna's. They are really good vans and the new ones even better, but I like the commanding position of SUV's a bit more, even if they are more expensive and cost more to run (fuel efficiency).
I was actually considering the Sequoia....but I think I want to really stay up in the "luxury" segment, my brother-in-law already has a Sequoia Limited, and 3 of my brothers already have Sienna's. They are really good vans and the new ones even better, but I like the commanding position of SUV's a bit more, even if they are more expensive and cost more to run (fuel efficiency).
12-02-04 | 10:35 PM
#60
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally posted by nanotech
No way to station wagons and I want a BIG suv, so I don't want the GX470 (plus I dont like the way it looks).
I was actually considering the Sequoia....but I think I want to really stay up in the "luxury" segment, my brother-in-law already has a Sequoia Limited, and 3 of my brothers already have Sienna's. They are really good vans and the new ones even better, but I like the commanding position of SUV's a bit more, even if they are more expensive and cost more to run (fuel efficiency).
No way to station wagons and I want a BIG suv, so I don't want the GX470 (plus I dont like the way it looks).
I was actually considering the Sequoia....but I think I want to really stay up in the "luxury" segment, my brother-in-law already has a Sequoia Limited, and 3 of my brothers already have Sienna's. They are really good vans and the new ones even better, but I like the commanding position of SUV's a bit more, even if they are more expensive and cost more to run (fuel efficiency).
I say grab either an older LandCruiser or wait for the new model to come out to get a really good deal on the discontinued body style. LandCruisers are not as large as the Seq but def more exclusive. LandCruisers are well reknown throughout the world, solid as a tank (ive actually seen Cruisers limp home with cyclinders deactivated) and dependable. It is also cheaper than the LX470. I don't know much bout the Navi, but what I do know, that SUV is about as exciting as drinking hot cawfee in the scorching African heat. Other options are: RangeRover, LandRover LR3...DO NOT BUY THE DISCOVERY. I have a friend who works in the service department for LandRover, and he highly suggested that I avoid the DISCO at all costs!
Or if you wanted to, you could look at Cadillacs SUV alternative, BMW X5, or some x-overs.
Last edited by tetra7; 12-02-04 at 10:51 PM.