RON430

I thought the RL won the "Best Luxury Sedan" Category? Don't remember a dollar figure associated with it like CR. I don't have the magazine with me here so I might be wrong. But most of these guys only take new models which means this was the year for the 5. So I am still very impressed that C&D didn't pick the new 5 regardless of the competition. Just can't remember that happening in a loooooooooooong time. Oh those French.

LexFather

The way to win the award is:
1. All new design
2. Or be a previous winner
3. And you have to be under the dollar amount (I think it is 2 times what the avg new car cost is)


They used to just have 10 best, some used to be in the same category. I've seen the 3, A4 win the say year and the GS/5 win the same year. For them to name a car best in class is absolute bullcrap

doug_999

I have a couple of thoughts...
1. I seem to remember the 5 being included last year in the nominees - that would mean that it should NOT have been included this year (cause it did not win nor was it changed significantly). Either they screwed up and gave it two chances, or it is a misprint and it was not considered this year.
2. I think they also screwed up by assigning categories to the cars - they even sort of just mention "btw, we kind of gave categories to the cars that won". It makes it seem like the RL is the king of luxury and we all know it is not. The 10 best should be the 10 best cars and not based on category. I maintain it was not category based and they just picked them after the fact.

Now regarding the new 5...
Well our friend CR says it is one of the least reliable cars out there (most first year German cars are bad, but still). They also point to the number of computers and motors on these cars (I think I read the 745 has 139 of them - even the wipers change angles) - no wonder they have issues.

But let's get to the point. I sat in a new 5 the other day. I can not believe how terrible a job they did on the inside of that car. I've never been a fan of the outside either (yet I am one of four people that like the 745). Will I consider a 545 for my next car? Yes, unfortunately I have to. Do I wish the headlights and taillights looked like the 6? YES - do I wish it had an interior like the new GS or RL? - darn straight. Do I wish it had regular variable assist steering instead of Active Steering?- YES. They took the car to the nth degree. It still is the ultimate driving machine - but it now could be labeled "the ultimate driving machine with a lot of quirks and a butt ugly interior" - IMHO of course

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Thank you Doug. I agree the interior is TERRIBLE. Ugly AND cheap looking.

Car drives great though (I flogged one around a cone course).

But with that interior I would never buy one.

RON430

Got the magazine now. Base price limit is $70,000 as that is 2.5 times the average US car cost. The 5 is included in the list of nominees and with that base price, the 545 is included and was beat by the RL. Whodathunk.

RON430

Got the magazine now and the base price limit is $70,000 and the 5 series is included. As for the Acura win, I didn't se the RL until the middle of November and just still trying to figure the thing out. Saw it at the SF auto show and at least at an auto show, I wasn't too impressed. It sounds like it has a trick drive train but I hope the electrics are well sorted out. Other threads talk about it and I still have problems with it for 50K. WIth a limit of 70K there are others I would pick too but because it has to be new or significantly upgraded this year or a last year nominee, maybe that shifted it to the RL.

When I look at the MT COTY (won by the 300C - not the Touring or 6 cyl model 300), they also give good marks to the RL but the 0-60 of 7.0 sec isn't awe inspiring. Not dumping on the RL, it was faster than the:

Buick La Crosse
Ford FIve Hundred
Honda Odyssey
Kia Amati
Kia Spetra5
Mazda 3s
Mercury MontegoAWD Premier
Pontiac G6 GT
Scion tC

but it was also slower than:

Audi A6 4.2
BMW 645 Ci
Cadillac STS
Chevrolet Corvette Z51
Chrysler 300C
Dodge Magnum RT
Ford Mustang GT
Honda Accord Hybrid
Lotus Elise Sport
Mercedes Benz SLK350
Porsche Carrera S
Saab 9-2x Aero
Subaru Legacy GT
Volvo S40 T5 AWD

Not that hung up on 0-60 but a 50K performance sedan ought to be quicker than an Accord hybrid. Just my opinion.

As for the 5, I am not a big fan either. I had thought it might be the right size for Bangles nightmares but it may be the worst. Actually made the 7 look better thought out. As for the interiors, I have no idea what is going on. I used to be impressed with MB S class interiors but it seems like they have also taken a big step backwards in the quality of materials as well. I was never that aware of all the plastic in the S class as I was this year and it isn't particularly high quality plastic anymore. CLS is an interesting concept but I would really like to see how comfortable that thing is. Hard to believe it could be that comfortable being as low as it is. Still hard to believe that the RL beat the 5. It would be nice if one of these magazines could not sell out to the advertisers and tell us why the losers lost as well as why the winner won. OK, I know that's not going to happen.

LexFather

Funny but for all the SH-AWD, no RL owner is going go use it. The car looks like an Accord. And interior room is like an Accord. And its as fast as an Accord. Sh-AWD, myabe .0007% of owners are going to track their car. The Electronics are nice but not a neccesity. For 50k, A v-8 is. Sorry. Yes its an improvement over the old car but that car was so sorry, ANYTHING is an improvement. I'd rather the TL than the RL. And that is Acuras problem. Visit their boards. TSX owners think the TSX is better than the TL (it wins the awards). TL owners think the RL is not worth the extra dough (its faster, looks much better).The funniest part is RSX owners can't wait to dump their FWD cars for RWD ones (they do not want to move up the marque). Weird With other marques, YOU KNOW when you buy the next level model. It is clear. And people tend to look up to the higher level cars and aspire to it.

Now to the 5. Funny, but its still a 5. It SOUNDS like it is worth 50k. Feeble, yes, but I'd pay the extra coin to say "yeah, that is my 5" than to say "yeah that is my RL (as confused person gazes on, WTF is that). The exterior is love or hate but different. Same with the interior. You have a wonderful suspension and a low 5 sec car with the 545. Manual is an option. But I could own a 5.There is an aftermarket for it. You can mod it, make it better. There is an enthusiast circle for it. For 50k, I need that.

RON430

Lord help me, but I agree that I could sooner se myself paying 50 plus for a 5 than an RL. Even worse, if that freshened 7 gets the performance it is rumored to be getting, that may make me do something foolish. I don't want to continue to dump on the RL, especially because I doubt I will drive one, it just doesn't appeal to me. But I am interested in the folks who want AWD for inclement weather purposes. If you have better info, please add it in but the AWD in the RL looks like a performance enhancement and not the type of AWD that helps in inclement weather. It might work well but it looks like the electronics are not only helping out in cornering but overcoming that FWD bias. They might be forecasting the future but bimmer just flat knows how to get suspensions right. If bimmer would ditch a lot of their electronics I think they would have better cars and better reliability but no one is asking me. But if bimmer and Merc are downgrading the materials that us poor humans interact with in order to cram in more useless electronics, well, you know how this is going. So, outside of the RL win, does anyone think anything about the rest of the CD list or their conclusions? Sorry if this gets the thread off topic.

doug_999

Like I said, I'm not sure it was included - it might be a misprint cause I swear it was included last year (I'm on the road so I can't check). Even so, cars that win 10 best do lose in comparisons.

I friend of mine at an Acura dealer tells me the RL is incredible but too soft. He just ordered a TL instead. However, the A-Spec handling package will be out in the spring for the RL and that should make it a pretty sweet ride.

Personally, if I was in the market for a 6-Cyl car, the RL would be at the top of my list - cause for $50K you just can't beat what it offers. And for those who say it looks like an Accord, two thoughts...
1. The Accord is pretty darn good looking IMHO
2. I still bet it turns more heads than a 5 series

rogers2

About 2 weeks ago I took my NSX in for service and in the corner of my eye I spotted a new Acura rl. The first thing I said to my service manager was that the car looks like a big accord and he agreed. But the most important thing he said was that this car isn't about the exterior its shows its true colors once you're behind the wheel. Since that day I haven't bad mouthed the car once b/c I haven't test driven the car. Most people who pass judge on this car haven't even test driven the car more less look inside one at the dealership. Stop quote **** you see on other forums or what someone else says. Tests drive the car then tell me your honest opinion.

RON430

I don't have the mag in front of me anymore either but I read the article a bit more thoroughly last night and there were three nominees that they couldn't get examples of so they were not rated. One of them was the CLS 500. Not sure exactly why I read these mags anymore but with all the provisos, not sure what this list means.

My wife has always found Acuras to be too soft for her tastes. The GS with the bilsteins is probably too harsh for her tastes but she flat won't consider a bimmer after our experiences with them.

Another shock, I disagree with you Doug. I can't see how the RL is going to turn heads on the street. Most people won't even know what they are looking at. At least the 5 stands out. But you know, not standing out isn't necessarily a bad thing. I actually hope Acura does well with this thing. After all those years of just not being a player, it would be nice to see them offer an alternative. Not like anything in this class is perfect. Maybe I will go drive one but I will wait and see what the sales are like. They shouldn't do any worse than the old model unless the price scares some folks off. Maybe sticker shock is returning. After looking at some wine for the holidays, I am pretty impressed by the wine prices now. Sure glad the Fed governors don't have to fill up their car with gas or go buy a bottle of wine, easier for them to believe there is no inflation. Maybe I need to ratchet up my value equations.

RON430

Sure interesting how many people have their panties in a bunch over a car that no one seems to have driven yet. I would like to get a comment from a bimmerista who trades his 5 in on one to hear his comments. At the auto show, you obviously couldn't drive it but I could sit in it. The thing that attracted me to the GS was the interior room and the RL doesn't seem as roomy to me. I see the RL is rated at something like 99 cu ft interior space while the GS is something like a 100 cu ft but the RL just seemed noticeably tighter. The back seat in the GS isn't exactly spacious but the RL seems even tighter. So I guess I am just not a candidate for the RL and that probably takes my vote away. Leaning more toward an LS or, forgive me, a 7 for next time.

dseag2

Sounds like a fairly unbiased discussion, so as someone who has driven the RL because he now owns one I'd like to offer a few comments:

-I'm not overly concerned about the styling because it's nice to be "understated" once in a while.
-I'll never take the car to the track, but I do enjoy spirited driving, so I'm very happy with this car.
-The interior is a model of ergonomic efficiency, even with the ****-controlled nav system, and it's comfortable. I've always leaned toward more traditional instrumentation, but I like the layout. Materials/lighting are beautiful too.
-I don't care about the size of the car, and I don't equate "big car" with "more expensive". It's usually just me and (occasionally) another passenger. I have an SUV for that.
-Everything from the paint to the leather is top-notch.

I've never driven a 5-Series, but I did own an '01330Ci (considered one of the "marques") and although it was fun, I didn't see what the big deal was. I loved my SC430 and my GS300, but neither were much fun to drive (even after L-tuned). My A6 4.2 was a great car, but the service sucked. My '04 TL was a fun, beautiful car but wasn't as luxurious as the RL. Those cars are my primary frame of reference, and for my purposes, the RL is the best overall package. I realize cars get better each year with the introduction of new technology, so the new GS and new M should be quite interesting.

Just wanted to interject the opinion of someone who has driven the car, so hopefully I haven't offended anyone. I try to make a point not to come into other forums and bash other brands. You never know what you will end up owning.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Excellent feedback. Folks here comparing the 5 series to the RL don't get it - they're completely different target customers. RL more focused on refined luxury ride with some neat features and 5 series still focused on being a 'drivers' car. But more importantly people aren't looking at the cost. Does anyone really think you can get a 545 for 50K? Dream on - try $60! The 530i is nothing special, even has dinky 16" wheels.

doug_999

Man you have had a lot of cars - I envy you!