Seriously, w/o bias bmw745i or LS430CL 04'
12-09-04 | 03:27 PM
#31
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
I had (have) both 745 and LS430
I am the perfect person to answer this question because I traded in a 2002 745i for a 2004 430 LS.
Let me start by saying that I am a BMW person - I owned BMW's for 10 years, beginning with a 325 convertable, then a 528, a 540 (my favorite) and lastly a 745i. I still have mixed feelings about giving up a BMW for a Lexus, but in the end the pros and cons seem to work slightly in favor of the Lexus.
Here are the pros and cons.
FIT AND FINISH - pretty much of a tie. Both the BMW 745i and LS 430 are beautifully crafted cars with lots of wonderful wood and premium leather. The controls feel more solid on the BMW than the lexus and the overall feeling of the car is more solid. The BMW doors close with a wonderful thunk. The Lexus are somewhat tinny in comparison. An interesting thing I noted is that with the BMW Logic 7 stereo on loud, I could not hear the sound outside the car with the doors closed and the windows up. On the Lexus, the sound permiates the car. On the other hand the Lexus has not had a squeak or rattle and the BMW in the same time period had a number. I had a dash board rattle on the 745i that took the dealer 3 times to fix. I also had an odd window air noise that they could never quite fix.
RIDE AND HANDLING - This is where the cars differ most. The Lexus rides like you are on a cloud. As the emperical decible numbers reflect, the Lexus is just plain quiet. When you start the engine, you can forget that it is on. Road bumps are a thing of the past. It is a truly serene experience riding in this car. On long trips to my summer house on Cape Cod from the Boston area, I looked forward to traffic to surrond myself in this quiet sanctuary with XM sattleite radio piped through the very good Mark Levinson sound system. But, oh how I miss the BMW's handling. The Lexus feels like a whale to the BMW's shark. As one reviewer said of the 745, BMW did magic, making the a 4300 pound car feel like a 3 series. The car sticks to the road like it is on a railroad track. I would take a sharp exit turn with the 745 at 90 MPH with confidence. The Lexus does not feel like it could not handle the same turn at 40 MPH. The BMW gives you lots of road noise and feel. The Lexus no noise and limited feel. This is just an area where the cars are different beasts. The irony is that the cars have similar 0-60 times (sub 6 seconds), but where I always felt comfortable pushing the 745 to the limit, the Lexus makes me nervous. It is truly nothing more than a different design philosophy. So, if you car about sports-car like handling the BMW wins; if you car about quiet bliss on a traffic bound Monday morning, the Lexus is your car. I note that Lexus is aware of this disparity and the press reports note the 2007 redesign will make the acr more like the BMW in terms of handling. It is hard here ot pick a winner because of the fundamental difference.
Ergonomics - The Lexus wins this category. I actually liked the BMW iDrive joystick (I am a gadget freak and it appealed to me) But the Lexus is laid out perfectly, with controls where they should be and the best navigation system I have used. The touch screen on the Lexus Nav/Radio/Climate system is so much easier to use than the BMW iDrive. Other the general seemingly lower quality of the materials used on the switches and alike compared to the BMW, the Lexus wins here hands down.
Reliability- This was my real reason for trading in the 745i and not buying either another BMW or the very nice Mercedes S500 that I looked at. My 745i was in the shop more times than I can count, never with mechanical issues, but with crazy issues. Once I got into the BMW and when I spoke the microphone picked up my voice and played it over the audio system. The navigation computer would reset at random. The last straw was a message that "the heater could not work because of alow battery" when the battery was fine and BMW could literally not figure out the problem. If you read the bimmer.org boards you will see that these problems still plague the BMW 7 and 5 series. I just got tired of the unreliability. So, candidly reluctently, I traded it on for the reliable Lexus. And reliable it has been.
So, I am truly torn. If BMW could get its reliability back to its old standard, I would have a 745i today because i enjoy the thrill of driving a 4300 745 that drives like a fine tuned race car. But I am enjoying my LS430 because of its quiet reliable ride.
Hope this helps.
Let me start by saying that I am a BMW person - I owned BMW's for 10 years, beginning with a 325 convertable, then a 528, a 540 (my favorite) and lastly a 745i. I still have mixed feelings about giving up a BMW for a Lexus, but in the end the pros and cons seem to work slightly in favor of the Lexus.
Here are the pros and cons.
FIT AND FINISH - pretty much of a tie. Both the BMW 745i and LS 430 are beautifully crafted cars with lots of wonderful wood and premium leather. The controls feel more solid on the BMW than the lexus and the overall feeling of the car is more solid. The BMW doors close with a wonderful thunk. The Lexus are somewhat tinny in comparison. An interesting thing I noted is that with the BMW Logic 7 stereo on loud, I could not hear the sound outside the car with the doors closed and the windows up. On the Lexus, the sound permiates the car. On the other hand the Lexus has not had a squeak or rattle and the BMW in the same time period had a number. I had a dash board rattle on the 745i that took the dealer 3 times to fix. I also had an odd window air noise that they could never quite fix.
RIDE AND HANDLING - This is where the cars differ most. The Lexus rides like you are on a cloud. As the emperical decible numbers reflect, the Lexus is just plain quiet. When you start the engine, you can forget that it is on. Road bumps are a thing of the past. It is a truly serene experience riding in this car. On long trips to my summer house on Cape Cod from the Boston area, I looked forward to traffic to surrond myself in this quiet sanctuary with XM sattleite radio piped through the very good Mark Levinson sound system. But, oh how I miss the BMW's handling. The Lexus feels like a whale to the BMW's shark. As one reviewer said of the 745, BMW did magic, making the a 4300 pound car feel like a 3 series. The car sticks to the road like it is on a railroad track. I would take a sharp exit turn with the 745 at 90 MPH with confidence. The Lexus does not feel like it could not handle the same turn at 40 MPH. The BMW gives you lots of road noise and feel. The Lexus no noise and limited feel. This is just an area where the cars are different beasts. The irony is that the cars have similar 0-60 times (sub 6 seconds), but where I always felt comfortable pushing the 745 to the limit, the Lexus makes me nervous. It is truly nothing more than a different design philosophy. So, if you car about sports-car like handling the BMW wins; if you car about quiet bliss on a traffic bound Monday morning, the Lexus is your car. I note that Lexus is aware of this disparity and the press reports note the 2007 redesign will make the acr more like the BMW in terms of handling. It is hard here ot pick a winner because of the fundamental difference.
Ergonomics - The Lexus wins this category. I actually liked the BMW iDrive joystick (I am a gadget freak and it appealed to me) But the Lexus is laid out perfectly, with controls where they should be and the best navigation system I have used. The touch screen on the Lexus Nav/Radio/Climate system is so much easier to use than the BMW iDrive. Other the general seemingly lower quality of the materials used on the switches and alike compared to the BMW, the Lexus wins here hands down.
Reliability- This was my real reason for trading in the 745i and not buying either another BMW or the very nice Mercedes S500 that I looked at. My 745i was in the shop more times than I can count, never with mechanical issues, but with crazy issues. Once I got into the BMW and when I spoke the microphone picked up my voice and played it over the audio system. The navigation computer would reset at random. The last straw was a message that "the heater could not work because of alow battery" when the battery was fine and BMW could literally not figure out the problem. If you read the bimmer.org boards you will see that these problems still plague the BMW 7 and 5 series. I just got tired of the unreliability. So, candidly reluctently, I traded it on for the reliable Lexus. And reliable it has been.
So, I am truly torn. If BMW could get its reliability back to its old standard, I would have a 745i today because i enjoy the thrill of driving a 4300 745 that drives like a fine tuned race car. But I am enjoying my LS430 because of its quiet reliable ride.
Hope this helps.
12-09-04 | 04:19 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: I had (have) both 745 and LS430
Originally posted by ihparker
I am the perfect person to answer this question because I traded in a 2002 745i for a 2004 430 LS.
Let me start by saying that I am a BMW person - I owned BMW's for 10 years, beginning with a 325 convertable, then a 528, a 540 (my favorite) and lastly a 745i. I still have mixed feelings about giving up a BMW for a Lexus, but in the end the pros and cons seem to work slightly in favor of the Lexus.
Here are the pros and cons.
FIT AND FINISH - pretty much of a tie. Both the BMW 745i and LS 430 are beautifully crafted cars with lots of wonderful wood and premium leather. The controls feel more solid on the BMW than the lexus and the overall feeling of the car is more solid. The BMW doors close with a wonderful thunk. The Lexus are somewhat tinny in comparison. An interesting thing I noted is that with the BMW Logic 7 stereo on loud, I could not hear the sound outside the car with the doors closed and the windows up. On the Lexus, the sound permiates the car. On the other hand the Lexus has not had a squeak or rattle and the BMW in the same time period had a number. I had a dash board rattle on the 745i that took the dealer 3 times to fix. I also had an odd window air noise that they could never quite fix.
RIDE AND HANDLING - This is where the cars differ most. The Lexus rides like you are on a cloud. As the emperical decible numbers reflect, the Lexus is just plain quiet. When you start the engine, you can forget that it is on. Road bumps are a thing of the past. It is a truly serene experience riding in this car. On long trips to my summer house on Cape Cod from the Boston area, I looked forward to traffic to surrond myself in this quiet sanctuary with XM sattleite radio piped through the very good Mark Levinson sound system. But, oh how I miss the BMW's handling. The Lexus feels like a whale to the BMW's shark. As one reviewer said of the 745, BMW did magic, making the a 4300 pound car feel like a 3 series. The car sticks to the road like it is on a railroad track. I would take a sharp exit turn with the 745 at 90 MPH with confidence. The Lexus does not feel like it could not handle the same turn at 40 MPH. The BMW gives you lots of road noise and feel. The Lexus no noise and limited feel. This is just an area where the cars are different beasts. The irony is that the cars have similar 0-60 times (sub 6 seconds), but where I always felt comfortable pushing the 745 to the limit, the Lexus makes me nervous. It is truly nothing more than a different design philosophy. So, if you car about sports-car like handling the BMW wins; if you car about quiet bliss on a traffic bound Monday morning, the Lexus is your car. I note that Lexus is aware of this disparity and the press reports note the 2007 redesign will make the acr more like the BMW in terms of handling. It is hard here ot pick a winner because of the fundamental difference.
Ergonomics - The Lexus wins this category. I actually liked the BMW iDrive joystick (I am a gadget freak and it appealed to me) But the Lexus is laid out perfectly, with controls where they should be and the best navigation system I have used. The touch screen on the Lexus Nav/Radio/Climate system is so much easier to use than the BMW iDrive. Other the general seemingly lower quality of the materials used on the switches and alike compared to the BMW, the Lexus wins here hands down.
Reliability- This was my real reason for trading in the 745i and not buying either another BMW or the very nice Mercedes S500 that I looked at. My 745i was in the shop more times than I can count, never with mechanical issues, but with crazy issues. Once I got into the BMW and when I spoke the microphone picked up my voice and played it over the audio system. The navigation computer would reset at random. The last straw was a message that "the heater could not work because of alow battery" when the battery was fine and BMW could literally not figure out the problem. If you read the bimmer.org boards you will see that these problems still plague the BMW 7 and 5 series. I just got tired of the unreliability. So, candidly reluctently, I traded it on for the reliable Lexus. And reliable it has been.
So, I am truly torn. If BMW could get its reliability back to its old standard, I would have a 745i today because i enjoy the thrill of driving a 4300 745 that drives like a fine tuned race car. But I am enjoying my LS430 because of its quiet reliable ride.
Hope this helps.
I am the perfect person to answer this question because I traded in a 2002 745i for a 2004 430 LS.
Let me start by saying that I am a BMW person - I owned BMW's for 10 years, beginning with a 325 convertable, then a 528, a 540 (my favorite) and lastly a 745i. I still have mixed feelings about giving up a BMW for a Lexus, but in the end the pros and cons seem to work slightly in favor of the Lexus.
Here are the pros and cons.
FIT AND FINISH - pretty much of a tie. Both the BMW 745i and LS 430 are beautifully crafted cars with lots of wonderful wood and premium leather. The controls feel more solid on the BMW than the lexus and the overall feeling of the car is more solid. The BMW doors close with a wonderful thunk. The Lexus are somewhat tinny in comparison. An interesting thing I noted is that with the BMW Logic 7 stereo on loud, I could not hear the sound outside the car with the doors closed and the windows up. On the Lexus, the sound permiates the car. On the other hand the Lexus has not had a squeak or rattle and the BMW in the same time period had a number. I had a dash board rattle on the 745i that took the dealer 3 times to fix. I also had an odd window air noise that they could never quite fix.
RIDE AND HANDLING - This is where the cars differ most. The Lexus rides like you are on a cloud. As the emperical decible numbers reflect, the Lexus is just plain quiet. When you start the engine, you can forget that it is on. Road bumps are a thing of the past. It is a truly serene experience riding in this car. On long trips to my summer house on Cape Cod from the Boston area, I looked forward to traffic to surrond myself in this quiet sanctuary with XM sattleite radio piped through the very good Mark Levinson sound system. But, oh how I miss the BMW's handling. The Lexus feels like a whale to the BMW's shark. As one reviewer said of the 745, BMW did magic, making the a 4300 pound car feel like a 3 series. The car sticks to the road like it is on a railroad track. I would take a sharp exit turn with the 745 at 90 MPH with confidence. The Lexus does not feel like it could not handle the same turn at 40 MPH. The BMW gives you lots of road noise and feel. The Lexus no noise and limited feel. This is just an area where the cars are different beasts. The irony is that the cars have similar 0-60 times (sub 6 seconds), but where I always felt comfortable pushing the 745 to the limit, the Lexus makes me nervous. It is truly nothing more than a different design philosophy. So, if you car about sports-car like handling the BMW wins; if you car about quiet bliss on a traffic bound Monday morning, the Lexus is your car. I note that Lexus is aware of this disparity and the press reports note the 2007 redesign will make the acr more like the BMW in terms of handling. It is hard here ot pick a winner because of the fundamental difference.
Ergonomics - The Lexus wins this category. I actually liked the BMW iDrive joystick (I am a gadget freak and it appealed to me) But the Lexus is laid out perfectly, with controls where they should be and the best navigation system I have used. The touch screen on the Lexus Nav/Radio/Climate system is so much easier to use than the BMW iDrive. Other the general seemingly lower quality of the materials used on the switches and alike compared to the BMW, the Lexus wins here hands down.
Reliability- This was my real reason for trading in the 745i and not buying either another BMW or the very nice Mercedes S500 that I looked at. My 745i was in the shop more times than I can count, never with mechanical issues, but with crazy issues. Once I got into the BMW and when I spoke the microphone picked up my voice and played it over the audio system. The navigation computer would reset at random. The last straw was a message that "the heater could not work because of alow battery" when the battery was fine and BMW could literally not figure out the problem. If you read the bimmer.org boards you will see that these problems still plague the BMW 7 and 5 series. I just got tired of the unreliability. So, candidly reluctently, I traded it on for the reliable Lexus. And reliable it has been.
So, I am truly torn. If BMW could get its reliability back to its old standard, I would have a 745i today because i enjoy the thrill of driving a 4300 745 that drives like a fine tuned race car. But I am enjoying my LS430 because of its quiet reliable ride.
Hope this helps.
12-09-04 | 06:10 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,337
Likes: 15
From: wisconsin
Reliability is my priority thus my GS is my second Lexus. My first Lexus was a pre-owned 93 LS400. I traded the LS4 at 95K miles, not a single problem during my four years of ownership. A colleague of mine owned a 3 series BMW and now a MB CLK430, not sure why when he mention his MB or BMW it is always shop repair talk
12-09-04 | 09:59 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: IL
Ok, guys, let's have some fun with some of these posts
Mikeyboy is 2/3 right here - the 745 is more performance and the 430 is straight luxury. The 02 745 should be avoided like the plague. But previous models (from 1996 on up), even the 02, never had a 40% engine failure rate. You might be referring to the Nikasil engine block issues - which I think only affected 1994, 1995, and 1996 740s.
and now on to DDLexus - who is not a math major....
DD, um, when I multiply 70*.44 I get 30.8 (not 30)
When I multiply 58*.46 I get 26.68
But hey, let's compare apples to apples and take a 70K ultra 430 vs. the 745 at 70k (two more equivalent cars). Now we have
70*.44=30.8
70*.46=32.2
For a difference of $1,400 not $9,000 as you come up with.
Alas, my GS430 is one of the most expensive cars out there to insure - even so, it is only $120 more per year than my 540 was - big deal.
And finally, this classic post
The LS430 is a better driving and handling car than the 745? Are you crazy man? You obviously are not a true Morris and that must just be your married name - tell me this is true cause otherwise, I've got to start tracing my family tree and find out where it when bad
I point you to ihparker's post - here is a guy who has had both cars for a period of time. Read it - it is dead on.
Originally posted by mikeyboy
I personally never drove the LS430 but have driven numerous 745s and 760s. The 430 is straight luxury, truly one of the classiest and finest vehicles to every lay on the road, period. 745 is more performance.
If you do go with the 745, DO NOT GET AN 02 OR PREVIOUS MODEL. 40% of them have engine failure and many many many endless electrical issues.
I personally never drove the LS430 but have driven numerous 745s and 760s. The 430 is straight luxury, truly one of the classiest and finest vehicles to every lay on the road, period. 745 is more performance.
If you do go with the 745, DO NOT GET AN 02 OR PREVIOUS MODEL. 40% of them have engine failure and many many many endless electrical issues.
and now on to DDLexus - who is not a math major....
Originally posted by DDLexus
As mentioned before, the resale value on the 7 series (all of them) is worse than the Lexus. In 4 years, it will be worth 44% of the original value. The Lexus will be 46%. Doing the math...
List Price:
$70k (745i) --- $58k (LS430)
Resale in 4 yrs.
$30k (745i) --- $27k (LS430)
Depreciation:
$40k ---$31k
Insurance is higher on the Bimmer. Gas mileage is roughly the same. 5 yr service cost is higher also. Just makes sense to me....
As mentioned before, the resale value on the 7 series (all of them) is worse than the Lexus. In 4 years, it will be worth 44% of the original value. The Lexus will be 46%. Doing the math...
List Price:
$70k (745i) --- $58k (LS430)
Resale in 4 yrs.
$30k (745i) --- $27k (LS430)
Depreciation:
$40k ---$31k
Insurance is higher on the Bimmer. Gas mileage is roughly the same. 5 yr service cost is higher also. Just makes sense to me....
When I multiply 58*.46 I get 26.68
But hey, let's compare apples to apples and take a 70K ultra 430 vs. the 745 at 70k (two more equivalent cars). Now we have
70*.44=30.8
70*.46=32.2
For a difference of $1,400 not $9,000 as you come up with.
Alas, my GS430 is one of the most expensive cars out there to insure - even so, it is only $120 more per year than my 540 was - big deal.
And finally, this classic post
Originally posted by morris
I drove them both side by side this summer at the lexus driving event ini Atlanta. The LS is a better driving and handling car hnads down. Driving the 745 while not as bad as the S500 which I also drove has the feeling of driving a boat. It is lumbering, soft, unresponsive, no road feel. It does look nice though and has more status I would say. The LS430 is tight responsive feels sporty plus all that consumer reports stuff. The 745 seems to have a record of being in the shop pretty frequently.
I drove them both side by side this summer at the lexus driving event ini Atlanta. The LS is a better driving and handling car hnads down. Driving the 745 while not as bad as the S500 which I also drove has the feeling of driving a boat. It is lumbering, soft, unresponsive, no road feel. It does look nice though and has more status I would say. The LS430 is tight responsive feels sporty plus all that consumer reports stuff. The 745 seems to have a record of being in the shop pretty frequently.
I point you to ihparker's post - here is a guy who has had both cars for a period of time. Read it - it is dead on.
12-09-04 | 10:23 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 2
From: Ventura, Ca
Without Bias,
The 2004 LS430 will get my vote.....You get a lot of car for the dollar. I'm not saying the BMW is bad, but styling is what made the decision for me. Mr. Bangle killed it in my opinion.
Otherwise, I'll take a Moonlight/Saddle '04 LS430 and slap a Wald Kit and some nice HRE's on it
The 2004 LS430 will get my vote.....You get a lot of car for the dollar. I'm not saying the BMW is bad, but styling is what made the decision for me. Mr. Bangle killed it in my opinion.
Otherwise, I'll take a Moonlight/Saddle '04 LS430 and slap a Wald Kit and some nice HRE's on it
12-10-04 | 06:57 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
From: fl
i think the 745i won...
idid understand the i thing as being a possible problem...
but the thing is both cars are used, and they both have 8ks on them. the BMW is in way better condition and looks imacualte..the prices are similarily the same..the BMW is gorgeous drives like a dream, and for me i like the idea that oil changes, brakes, all service is under warranty. thats a big issue for me. the LS430 will be changing soon enough..im sure in 2-3yrs when i decide to sell the irobot, i will still get some good money on it..regardless of anything, its still a 7-series..yea the LS is reliable, but the 7-series, is the s&*t. it looks tough and demands a presence. i dont see myself losing to much money on either one as far as resale especially considering the 745 wont change design, till 09'. i always like the styling of the 745 w/ the big *** 19" sport rims..i even got it w/ the bullet proof glass, well shatter proof glass...this is my chance to really see for myself what the 7series is all about..but i do like the easy craft of the LS, inotherwords i cant go wrong w/ either one..
idid understand the i thing as being a possible problem...
but the thing is both cars are used, and they both have 8ks on them. the BMW is in way better condition and looks imacualte..the prices are similarily the same..the BMW is gorgeous drives like a dream, and for me i like the idea that oil changes, brakes, all service is under warranty. thats a big issue for me. the LS430 will be changing soon enough..im sure in 2-3yrs when i decide to sell the irobot, i will still get some good money on it..regardless of anything, its still a 7-series..yea the LS is reliable, but the 7-series, is the s&*t. it looks tough and demands a presence. i dont see myself losing to much money on either one as far as resale especially considering the 745 wont change design, till 09'. i always like the styling of the 745 w/ the big *** 19" sport rims..i even got it w/ the bullet proof glass, well shatter proof glass...this is my chance to really see for myself what the 7series is all about..but i do like the easy craft of the LS, inotherwords i cant go wrong w/ either one..
12-10-04 | 07:01 AM
#40
Originally posted by doug_999
Ok, guys, let's have some fun with some of these posts
Mikeyboy is 2/3 right here - the 745 is more performance and the 430 is straight luxury. The 02 745 should be avoided like the plague. But previous models (from 1996 on up), even the 02, never had a 40% engine failure rate. You might be referring to the Nikasil engine block issues - which I think only affected 1994, 1995, and 1996 740s.
and now on to DDLexus - who is not a math major....
DD, um, when I multiply 70*.44 I get 30.8 (not 30)
When I multiply 58*.46 I get 26.68
But hey, let's compare apples to apples and take a 70K ultra 430 vs. the 745 at 70k (two more equivalent cars). Now we have
70*.44=30.8
70*.46=32.2
For a difference of $1,400 not $9,000 as you come up with.
Alas, my GS430 is one of the most expensive cars out there to insure - even so, it is only $120 more per year than my 540 was - big deal.
And finally, this classic post
The LS430 is a better driving and handling car than the 745? Are you crazy man? You obviously are not a true Morris and that must just be your married name - tell me this is true cause otherwise, I've got to start tracing my family tree and find out where it when bad
I point you to ihparker's post - here is a guy who has had both cars for a period of time. Read it - it is dead on.
Ok, guys, let's have some fun with some of these posts
Mikeyboy is 2/3 right here - the 745 is more performance and the 430 is straight luxury. The 02 745 should be avoided like the plague. But previous models (from 1996 on up), even the 02, never had a 40% engine failure rate. You might be referring to the Nikasil engine block issues - which I think only affected 1994, 1995, and 1996 740s.
and now on to DDLexus - who is not a math major....
DD, um, when I multiply 70*.44 I get 30.8 (not 30)
When I multiply 58*.46 I get 26.68
But hey, let's compare apples to apples and take a 70K ultra 430 vs. the 745 at 70k (two more equivalent cars). Now we have
70*.44=30.8
70*.46=32.2
For a difference of $1,400 not $9,000 as you come up with.
Alas, my GS430 is one of the most expensive cars out there to insure - even so, it is only $120 more per year than my 540 was - big deal.
And finally, this classic post
The LS430 is a better driving and handling car than the 745? Are you crazy man? You obviously are not a true Morris and that must just be your married name - tell me this is true cause otherwise, I've got to start tracing my family tree and find out where it when bad
I point you to ihparker's post - here is a guy who has had both cars for a period of time. Read it - it is dead on.
Ii have to stand by my observations, maybe it was different for previous years models but for me the LS gave a much tighter ride.
12-10-04 | 08:19 AM
#41
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 25
From: Alabama
Originally posted by doug_999
Ok, guys, let's have some fun with some of these posts
Mikeyboy is 2/3 right here - the 745 is more performance and the 430 is straight luxury. The 02 745 should be avoided like the plague. But previous models (from 1996 on up), even the 02, never had a 40% engine failure rate. You might be referring to the Nikasil engine block issues - which I think only affected 1994, 1995, and 1996 740s.
and now on to DDLexus - who is not a math major....
DD, um, when I multiply 70*.44 I get 30.8 (not 30)
When I multiply 58*.46 I get 26.68
But hey, let's compare apples to apples and take a 70K ultra 430 vs. the 745 at 70k (two more equivalent cars). Now we have
70*.44=30.8
70*.46=32.2
For a difference of $1,400 not $9,000 as you come up with.
Alas, my GS430 is one of the most expensive cars out there to insure - even so, it is only $120 more per year than my 540 was - big deal.
And finally, this classic post
The LS430 is a better driving and handling car than the 745? Are you crazy man? You obviously are not a true Morris and that must just be your married name - tell me this is true cause otherwise, I've got to start tracing my family tree and find out where it when bad
I point you to ihparker's post - here is a guy who has had both cars for a period of time. Read it - it is dead on.
Ok, guys, let's have some fun with some of these posts
Mikeyboy is 2/3 right here - the 745 is more performance and the 430 is straight luxury. The 02 745 should be avoided like the plague. But previous models (from 1996 on up), even the 02, never had a 40% engine failure rate. You might be referring to the Nikasil engine block issues - which I think only affected 1994, 1995, and 1996 740s.
and now on to DDLexus - who is not a math major....
DD, um, when I multiply 70*.44 I get 30.8 (not 30)
When I multiply 58*.46 I get 26.68
But hey, let's compare apples to apples and take a 70K ultra 430 vs. the 745 at 70k (two more equivalent cars). Now we have
70*.44=30.8
70*.46=32.2
For a difference of $1,400 not $9,000 as you come up with.
Alas, my GS430 is one of the most expensive cars out there to insure - even so, it is only $120 more per year than my 540 was - big deal.
And finally, this classic post
The LS430 is a better driving and handling car than the 745? Are you crazy man? You obviously are not a true Morris and that must just be your married name - tell me this is true cause otherwise, I've got to start tracing my family tree and find out where it when bad
I point you to ihparker's post - here is a guy who has had both cars for a period of time. Read it - it is dead on.
Now for my math skills. Guess you think you're onto something here. I quoted base prices for each car. Your comparisson of a $70 Ultra pkg to a $70k base 7 series is invalid. The depreciation comparision will not work here. I used values from Kiplinger to arrive at these results. I did some rounding, sure, but that doesn't make up for the near $9k difference in depreciation values. I'm sure you missed the point. Maybe you should read it again.
I agree the GS is an expensive car to insure. I had one also. Again, referring to Kiplinger. The insurance rates are provided for the respective cars on their base form. There is a significant difference. Look that word up in your statistics text book.
12-10-04 | 02:14 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: IL
Originally posted by DDLexus
My poor uninformed friend... Let me begin by telling you that Consumer Reports lists the years to avoid on the 7 series. They include: 97, 98, 02 and 03. 96 and 99 had insufficient data and 00 & 01 have average reliability. So, for the $70k base price, this downright sucks. The LS has better than averave rating from 96-03. Consumer Reports man! That means much more than some magazine that only test new cars and then dumps them off after a few thousand miles. Wake up.
Now for my math skills. Guess you think you're onto something here. I quoted base prices for each car. Your comparisson of a $70 Ultra pkg to a $70k base 7 series is invalid. The depreciation comparision will not work here. I used values from Kiplinger to arrive at these results. I did some rounding, sure, but that doesn't make up for the near $9k difference in depreciation values. I'm sure you missed the point. Maybe you should read it again.
I agree the GS is an expensive car to insure. I had one also. Again, referring to Kiplinger. The insurance rates are provided for the respective cars on their base form. There is a significant difference. Look that word up in your statistics text book.
My poor uninformed friend... Let me begin by telling you that Consumer Reports lists the years to avoid on the 7 series. They include: 97, 98, 02 and 03. 96 and 99 had insufficient data and 00 & 01 have average reliability. So, for the $70k base price, this downright sucks. The LS has better than averave rating from 96-03. Consumer Reports man! That means much more than some magazine that only test new cars and then dumps them off after a few thousand miles. Wake up.
Now for my math skills. Guess you think you're onto something here. I quoted base prices for each car. Your comparisson of a $70 Ultra pkg to a $70k base 7 series is invalid. The depreciation comparision will not work here. I used values from Kiplinger to arrive at these results. I did some rounding, sure, but that doesn't make up for the near $9k difference in depreciation values. I'm sure you missed the point. Maybe you should read it again.
I agree the GS is an expensive car to insure. I had one also. Again, referring to Kiplinger. The insurance rates are provided for the respective cars on their base form. There is a significant difference. Look that word up in your statistics text book.
Next, a base LS and a base 745i are in two different categories - option up the base LS to the Ultra category and you get the apples to apples comparison - oh and with the exception of NAV on a TL, I know of no other car whose residual value changes based on the options you get. However, I would agree, a $70K LS430 would depreciate faster than a $58K LS430 - that's your point right?
12-10-04 | 02:59 PM
#44
Racer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 25
From: Alabama
more fuzzy math
Fuzzy math? maybe. I gave it a shot. I know the 7 series car is better compared to the LS Ultra, but I don't have any financials to support the 5 yr service, depreciation, etc. See the image below...
12-10-04 | 03:18 PM
#45
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
From: fl
funny...if u look up in kbb.com, or the famous black little book those dealers carry like the grail. the BMW is 10k more. so what are u guys trying to tell me..its only one year and the car is still worth 55k while the lexus is worth 44k..now if both cars were brand new than the comparisons are possibk\le, b/c of the inital price drop. anyway, b4 making my decision i drove an CL600, no not the s500, but the V12 monster,,let me tell you, that car is freaking incredible...thats actually and understatment. anyway my point is the car was once 135k..now i can buy it for 60k..depreciation..now try and wait another 10yrs b4 it drops to 50k..its going to take a while..the car will not depreciate as much after the inital year...anyways..im not here to make points of reliabilty but to rxplain how awesome u feel in an 745i..class, comfort, and the power and handling of the car. yea, the seats of the lexus is more comfortable, but i love the underlyinhg strength in the car, the doors, the exterior, and i love my 19" stock rims w/ air suspension..look the car is the bomb..and ill be saying good bye on a thread soon, for those awesome people out there who take time to help me out..thanks...
but ill be back..
but ill be back..