problem with lexus 5 speed auto?
12-22-04, 07:10 PM
#1
problem with lexus 5 speed auto?
well from another forum i got the following links
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
12-22-04, 07:10 PM
#2
Hesitation issue goes beyond Toyota's luxury line
Friday, December 10, 2004
By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Toyota engineers are working to find an acceptable fix for a hesitation problem in five-speed automatic transmissions in certain of its luxury Lexus and Toyota models, the Japanese automaker said yesterday.
The problem was brought to light this week when the Post-Gazette reported on troubles McMurray resident Timothy W. Farabaugh was having with his 2004 Lexus ES330 ("Hesitating Lexus unsettling for owners," Dec. 8, 2004). The vehicle didn't respond immediately when his wife pressed the accelerator while trying to merge into traffic, causing her to narrowly avoid an accident.
It became clear the problem was more widespread when other readers who saw Wednesday's PG story reported the same hesitation with their Toyotas and other Lexus models.
It turns out that the five-speed automatic in the 2002 to 2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 models also is used in the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX330 sport utility models, two of the company's biggest sellers.
"The engineers in Japan are trying to come up with a fix on this problem ... The first attempt to solve this has not been completely successful," said Toyota spokesman Wade Hoyt. That first attempt "involved reprogramming the computer that controls the transmission," he added.
The reprogramming "relieved part of the problem, but did not completely cure it,'' he said -- a statement with which Alvise Anti of Pittsburgh can concur.
She said her RX330 had the "update -- Lexus calls it the fix -- but obviously it's not working. The car is drivable, but if you are not aware of the problem, it can be dangerous."
Another owner, Beth Caldwell, said her 2004 Toyota Highlander V-6 with the five-speed automatic transmission had the same hesitation problem and that when she took it to the dealer's service department, she was told "that's how the new transmissions are."
Scott McAliley said he got a similar response when he approached his dealer about his 2004 Lexus ES330. He said the dealer told him that, "a.), They couldn't find anything out of the ordinary and b.), The problem would diminish over time as the computer learned our habits."
One 2002 ES330 owner, Michael Moran, said he "made contact with the customer service department at Lexus headquarters in California, which led to a test drive of my car and a resultant confirmation of the malfunctioning transmission.
"I was offered a new 2004 ES330 for $4,000, an offer I unfortunately accepted. ... The 2004 ES330 model I am now driving has an even more pronounced malfunctioning transmission."
There have been no reports of serious or fatal accidents because of the problem.
Spokesman Brad Nelson said that once Toyota comes up with a successful fix, it may issue a technical service bulletin to dealers so they could make repairs on cars when they are brought in or launch a service campaign that would notify owners that there is an issue and that the problem can be corrected.
Hoyt said he believed that only drivers who were unusually sensitive to their cars' shifts and performance would notice the hesitation.
Friday, December 10, 2004
By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Toyota engineers are working to find an acceptable fix for a hesitation problem in five-speed automatic transmissions in certain of its luxury Lexus and Toyota models, the Japanese automaker said yesterday.
The problem was brought to light this week when the Post-Gazette reported on troubles McMurray resident Timothy W. Farabaugh was having with his 2004 Lexus ES330 ("Hesitating Lexus unsettling for owners," Dec. 8, 2004). The vehicle didn't respond immediately when his wife pressed the accelerator while trying to merge into traffic, causing her to narrowly avoid an accident.
It became clear the problem was more widespread when other readers who saw Wednesday's PG story reported the same hesitation with their Toyotas and other Lexus models.
It turns out that the five-speed automatic in the 2002 to 2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 models also is used in the Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX330 sport utility models, two of the company's biggest sellers.
"The engineers in Japan are trying to come up with a fix on this problem ... The first attempt to solve this has not been completely successful," said Toyota spokesman Wade Hoyt. That first attempt "involved reprogramming the computer that controls the transmission," he added.
The reprogramming "relieved part of the problem, but did not completely cure it,'' he said -- a statement with which Alvise Anti of Pittsburgh can concur.
She said her RX330 had the "update -- Lexus calls it the fix -- but obviously it's not working. The car is drivable, but if you are not aware of the problem, it can be dangerous."
Another owner, Beth Caldwell, said her 2004 Toyota Highlander V-6 with the five-speed automatic transmission had the same hesitation problem and that when she took it to the dealer's service department, she was told "that's how the new transmissions are."
Scott McAliley said he got a similar response when he approached his dealer about his 2004 Lexus ES330. He said the dealer told him that, "a.), They couldn't find anything out of the ordinary and b.), The problem would diminish over time as the computer learned our habits."
One 2002 ES330 owner, Michael Moran, said he "made contact with the customer service department at Lexus headquarters in California, which led to a test drive of my car and a resultant confirmation of the malfunctioning transmission.
"I was offered a new 2004 ES330 for $4,000, an offer I unfortunately accepted. ... The 2004 ES330 model I am now driving has an even more pronounced malfunctioning transmission."
There have been no reports of serious or fatal accidents because of the problem.
Spokesman Brad Nelson said that once Toyota comes up with a successful fix, it may issue a technical service bulletin to dealers so they could make repairs on cars when they are brought in or launch a service campaign that would notify owners that there is an issue and that the problem can be corrected.
Hoyt said he believed that only drivers who were unusually sensitive to their cars' shifts and performance would notice the hesitation.
12-22-04, 07:10 PM
#3
Hesitating Lexus unsettling for owners
Wednesday, December 08, 2004
By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A transmission problem in 2002 to 2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 sedans can cause hesitation before the car accelerates in certain situations -- and create some unsettling moments for the cars' owners.
Drivers have experienced a transmission problem with the Lexus ES330, above, which caused the car to hesitate.
Click photo for larger image.
McMurray resident Timothy W. Farabaugh was among those who experienced the problem with his 2004 Lexus ES330, and Consumer Reports has uncovered similar difficulties with the pricey model, which ranges from the mid-$30,000s to mid-$40,000s..
Farabaugh said his wife, Judy, experienced the hesitation problem firsthand when approaching a four lane highway with a yield sign. "After almost coming to a stop, and at the proper point in time, she pressed on the accelerator in order to merge into the far right lane that was wide open. ... Nothing happened.
"Then her car lunged into the intended lane, only to have a car that just changed lanes come bearing down on her, horn blowing, hands and fingers waving," Farabaugh said. "This was a very dangerous situation that almost resulted in the car being hit from behind. Impact was avoided by only inches."
David Champion, director of automobile testing for Consumer Reports said his staff also had problems with transmission delay when testing the 2004 Lexus ES330. "Your reader's experience does sound a lot worse than what we experienced, but that might be just the difference between cars."
Farabaugh said he was told that the problem related to a new "drive-by-wire" system in which the drivetrain went from a direct drive by cable to a system of commands that communicates between the gas pedal, the computer, the transmission and the engine." In other words, he said, "Instead of the gas pedal being connected directly to a series of cables and rods, the gas pedal now communicates with a computer and the computer tells the transmission and engine what to do."
Champion said he wasn't so sure that the "drive-by-wire" system was the problem.
"We've driven quite a few new cars that have drive-by-wire, and they don't have that problem,'' he said. "But we do know from our reliability data that both the 2002 model and the 2004 models seem to have had transmission problems -- a higher incident of transmission problems, than the average car."
A Lexus spokesman said the firm was aware of the problem and was investigating both the cause and the extensiveness of it. There have been no reports of accidents caused by the problem, but, "We did find a few complaints -- not a lot -- about the car hesitating excessively in certain conditions, after firm pressure was applied on the accelerator pedal and trying to accelerate quickly," said Brad Nelson, a Lexus public relations consultant said.
He said the problems were confined to the 2002-2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 models, all of which are equipped with five speed automatic transmissions.
"The transmissions on the cars have a sophisticated system that learns driver habits and adjusts itself to fit their driving pattern. The transmission acts to minimize what we call shift shock by regulating the onset of power," Nelson said.
"One byproduct of this is that there is a small delay between the time that a driver pushes the throttle and a feeling of strong acceleration. This can vary depending upon the learned driving pattern."
Lexus has several options should it be determined that remedies must be made, Nelson said.
"One option would be a service campaign where all owners are notified that there is an issue and that there is a fix for it. Then there is what we call a technical service information bulletin that is sent to dealers, and when customers have a particular complaint, the dealers can address [it]," Nelson said.
"Typically, when there are just a handful of people and cars involved and it is not considered a widespread or major issue, we try to handle things through a technical service information bulletin."
Wednesday, December 08, 2004
By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A transmission problem in 2002 to 2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 sedans can cause hesitation before the car accelerates in certain situations -- and create some unsettling moments for the cars' owners.
Drivers have experienced a transmission problem with the Lexus ES330, above, which caused the car to hesitate.
Click photo for larger image.
McMurray resident Timothy W. Farabaugh was among those who experienced the problem with his 2004 Lexus ES330, and Consumer Reports has uncovered similar difficulties with the pricey model, which ranges from the mid-$30,000s to mid-$40,000s..
Farabaugh said his wife, Judy, experienced the hesitation problem firsthand when approaching a four lane highway with a yield sign. "After almost coming to a stop, and at the proper point in time, she pressed on the accelerator in order to merge into the far right lane that was wide open. ... Nothing happened.
"Then her car lunged into the intended lane, only to have a car that just changed lanes come bearing down on her, horn blowing, hands and fingers waving," Farabaugh said. "This was a very dangerous situation that almost resulted in the car being hit from behind. Impact was avoided by only inches."
David Champion, director of automobile testing for Consumer Reports said his staff also had problems with transmission delay when testing the 2004 Lexus ES330. "Your reader's experience does sound a lot worse than what we experienced, but that might be just the difference between cars."
Farabaugh said he was told that the problem related to a new "drive-by-wire" system in which the drivetrain went from a direct drive by cable to a system of commands that communicates between the gas pedal, the computer, the transmission and the engine." In other words, he said, "Instead of the gas pedal being connected directly to a series of cables and rods, the gas pedal now communicates with a computer and the computer tells the transmission and engine what to do."
Champion said he wasn't so sure that the "drive-by-wire" system was the problem.
"We've driven quite a few new cars that have drive-by-wire, and they don't have that problem,'' he said. "But we do know from our reliability data that both the 2002 model and the 2004 models seem to have had transmission problems -- a higher incident of transmission problems, than the average car."
A Lexus spokesman said the firm was aware of the problem and was investigating both the cause and the extensiveness of it. There have been no reports of accidents caused by the problem, but, "We did find a few complaints -- not a lot -- about the car hesitating excessively in certain conditions, after firm pressure was applied on the accelerator pedal and trying to accelerate quickly," said Brad Nelson, a Lexus public relations consultant said.
He said the problems were confined to the 2002-2004 Lexus ES300 and ES330 models, all of which are equipped with five speed automatic transmissions.
"The transmissions on the cars have a sophisticated system that learns driver habits and adjusts itself to fit their driving pattern. The transmission acts to minimize what we call shift shock by regulating the onset of power," Nelson said.
"One byproduct of this is that there is a small delay between the time that a driver pushes the throttle and a feeling of strong acceleration. This can vary depending upon the learned driving pattern."
Lexus has several options should it be determined that remedies must be made, Nelson said.
"One option would be a service campaign where all owners are notified that there is an issue and that there is a fix for it. Then there is what we call a technical service information bulletin that is sent to dealers, and when customers have a particular complaint, the dealers can address [it]," Nelson said.
"Typically, when there are just a handful of people and cars involved and it is not considered a widespread or major issue, we try to handle things through a technical service information bulletin."
12-22-04, 07:46 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
This problem is not new...it has been a significant source of owner complaints for several years. Much has been posted in CL forums about it.
And it does not affect just the front-drive and AWD Camry-derived vehicles the article described but also some of the E-Shift rear-drive IS300's as well. With the IS, though, it is not so much a matter of a start-up from rest as it is a rolling start from about 5 MPH or so.
In both cases....the FWD / AWD and the RWD cars....I think it is not just transmssion-related, or even drive-by-wire. If it was, the transmission reprogramming would probably have taken care of it. It looks to me like an emissions-related programming in the fuel injection where the fuel mixture and the injectors go auto-lean for a few seconds and just don't spray enough gas into the manifold and cylinders for a optimum burn condition during peak engine load. This is somewhat similiar to those awful carburators built during the late 1970's and 1980's with the spring-loaded butterfly valves that went off of full choke WAY too early with cold engines and shesitated, bucked, and stalled during warmup.....only in this case it happen all the time, cold and warm.
And it does not affect just the front-drive and AWD Camry-derived vehicles the article described but also some of the E-Shift rear-drive IS300's as well. With the IS, though, it is not so much a matter of a start-up from rest as it is a rolling start from about 5 MPH or so.
In both cases....the FWD / AWD and the RWD cars....I think it is not just transmssion-related, or even drive-by-wire. If it was, the transmission reprogramming would probably have taken care of it. It looks to me like an emissions-related programming in the fuel injection where the fuel mixture and the injectors go auto-lean for a few seconds and just don't spray enough gas into the manifold and cylinders for a optimum burn condition during peak engine load. This is somewhat similiar to those awful carburators built during the late 1970's and 1980's with the spring-loaded butterfly valves that went off of full choke WAY too early with cold engines and shesitated, bucked, and stalled during warmup.....only in this case it happen all the time, cold and warm.
12-22-04, 09:10 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC/ATL
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once or twice when I was rolling in traffic on the highway and put the pedal down the car would not move and I had the computer reprogram, I'd take an 04 ES330 to resolve my problem
12-22-04, 09:52 PM
#6
This is not entirely encouraging news. When I learned of the ECU reprogram for the RX330s from other owners I elected not to have it done since my RX330 has not had any hesitation problems that I can detect. I wanted to leave well enough alone until I was certain I had a problem. So far though I have 32K miles on my 04 RX330 and haven't experienced the hesitation problem. I thought it was mostly in the RX330s but I guess not. I'll be keeping a close eye on this situation.
12-22-04, 10:17 PM
#7
yeah that's why i didn't say anything more than just posting the links. there are examples, and lexus is looking into it. if it's really problematic and lexus is doing recall, i guess it's ok (at least they are fixing problems entirely)
Trending Topics
12-23-04, 07:18 AM
#8
I have had the same issue with my 2004 GX, it's like it stays in a higher gear when you are slowing down to about 5mph then when you try to take off the car does not go anywhere then all of a sudden it drops down a gear and you then have power. It's like it does not know what gear you should be in then it just slams you in a lower gear. I hope they find a fix soon, my dealer told me it was normal 
.
.
12-23-04, 09:03 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
so it's the tranny, I thought this whole time the hesitation came from the drive-by-wire system, I do notice some hesitation on the GS <2002 300> specially when I want to really take off, it takes quite a couple of seconds for it to actually take off, it's really annoying at times
Last edited by Skulinex; 12-23-04 at 09:04 AM.
12-23-04, 09:19 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Skulinex
so it's the tranny, I thought this whole time the hesitation came from the drive-by-wire system, I do notice some hesitation on the GS <2002 300> specially when I want to really take off, it takes quite a couple of seconds for it to actually take off, it's really annoying at times
my sc430 also has weak throttle compared to my gs400. i have to press it harder to just get it to go. i always thought it's just a drive by wire with the ecu setup issue. i don't have any problems on hesitation though. i press on the gas hard enough and it will down shift right the way
12-23-04, 01:15 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
The fact that various ECU re-programmings have not completely cured it still makes me think that it is not only the transmission but a lean fuel mixture on accelerating at low speeds as well.
12-23-04, 06:21 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 808
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a similar situation a couple days ago, coming to a yield, then crossing a 2-lane highway with cars coming, I stepped on the gas, nothing, so I stepped more, then a surge of power came, almost making the front wheels spin out, but I know how this SUV drives, so I was in control. I don't think the tranny "learns" the driver, it is definitely the other way around! The one thing I hate, is when accelerating, then letting off the gas cause of a slow car in front of you, then pressing the gas lightly, it does this jerky shift between 1-2-1-2 
I HATE THAT!
The '04 ES I had as a loaner, had no problem.
I HATE THAT!The '04 ES I had as a loaner, had no problem.
12-27-04, 01:01 AM
#14
Originally Posted by msilverIS
I had a similar situation a couple days ago, coming to a yield, then crossing a 2-lane highway with cars coming, I stepped on the gas, nothing, so I stepped more, then a surge of power came, almost making the front wheels spin out, but I know how this SUV drives, so I was in control. I don't think the tranny "learns" the driver, it is definitely the other way around! The one thing I hate, is when accelerating, then letting off the gas cause of a slow car in front of you, then pressing the gas lightly, it does this jerky shift between 1-2-1-2 I HATE THAT!
The '04 ES I had as a loaner, had no problem.
I HATE THAT!The '04 ES I had as a loaner, had no problem.
