TRIBUTE THREAD!! 2JZ, you will be missed!!
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
TRIBUTE THREAD!! 2JZ, you will be missed!!
Now forgive me as I am not an expert on this engine. I hope those that are con contribute to the history of this engine, from beginings to what cars it was in, to the different versions of it.
What I DO know is it is one of the most reliable and strongest engines every built by any company. It is an inline-6 DOHC 3.0 liter engine. Clearly it was the base engine in the 92-98 Toyota Supra making 225hp and was used with twin-turbos making 320hp. The first Lexus application was in our SC 300 coupe making 220hp. The engine was used in the Toyota Aristo, our Lexus GS 300 from 93-95 making 215hp. And when Lexus decided to bring us the Altezza, our IS 300, they shoe horned the 2JZ in as Lexus never offered a 4-cylinder car and reserach indicated 4-cylinder luxury cars are not considered luxurious. This was used in the 01-05 IS 300 making 215hp. This engine was a big selling point to tuners and the IS 300. We have had Clublexus Cars of the Month with over 700hp. 400hp is NOTHING to this engine. 1,000hp was reached on Supras and I think 1,400 plus is tops. What is incredible is the engine does not require significant work, it uses the stock block. Today, we have hundreds of turbo and now supercharged SC 300s, GS 300s and IS 300s. The turbo SC 300 was the first turbo Lexus. Tuners and members early figured out that with a few changes, they could make Supra power. We have many great members here with turbo SC 300s making 400-600hp.
What killed it? Well Toyota is about green, green as in the environment and the engine was not nearly as clean as the newer engines. Also, it was heavy, weighing only 2 lbs less than the V-8 used in our Lexus V-8 cars and Lexus is very concerned about keeping weight down for maximum efficiency. Speaking of efficiency, it's fuel economy ratings were barely above a V-8 sedans. Last is technology, with Lexus going towards dual VVTi, direct injection and other new technologies.
So here is the tribute thread for is. The Supra was discontinued in 1998. The SC 300 was not renewed. The 2006 IS and GS will all use new V-6s.
So please share your stories and history and knowledge to this wonderful engine that scares cars from 350Zs to Ferraris and Lamborghinis!
You are gone but not forgotten! And tuners will make sure your name is STILL HEARD!!
#3
You guys have pretty much covered the history of this powerplant, and very well.....there isn't much I can add to that. I have some other comments, though:
This engine does in fact rank up among the very tops in durability......along with the famous Dodge-Plymouth "slant six" 170, 198, and 225 c.i. versions (2.8, 3.3, and 3.7 liters) that was built from 1960 to the mid 1980's. I learned to drive at age 16 in a 225 c.i. Plymouth.......THAT shows you how durable they were ( just kidding ) They routinely went 180,000-200,000 miles in an age when most engines were pretty much shot by 90,000-100,000 miles....and were economical to boot. Chrysler never adapted it to FWD, though....it was too long and heavy.
I, too will miss the 3.0 2JZ. I think it is without question the smoothest 6-banger I have ever driven...especially at idle and lower RPM's...smoother in some ways than the new Avalon's V6 that I recently test-drove. Mike, I think that much of the durability of this engine you mentioned comes from its weight.......being within a couple of pounds of the 4.3, the fact that they obviously put some metal into it, ( like the heavy Chrysler slant-six ) and , of course, the fact that it is a Toyota design to begin with. And, unlike its sister 3.0 V6 in the ES and RX, this engine would not bite back with sludge and gel if you were a little lax on oil changes....which of course you shouldn't be in the first place.
My only complaints with this engine are the oil filter location ( for DIY'ers, it could be MUCH better ) and the rather poor gas mileage by today's standards ( on premium gas, too) in stop-and-go driving, which I think is partly due to its weight and partly the IS300 transmission gearing and final-drive ratio....though in 5th gear highway driving the engine is quite relaxed.
The only other problems with this engine, IMO, were not the engine's fault and were due to the stubbornness of Lexus marketing and management. First, when the original (and beautiful ) SC300 was dropped, it was never replaced....only the 4.3 V8 carried over into the new Audi-TT look-alike. I have commented on this several times on other threads and will do so one last time in the final tribute........this policy IMO was a mistake. The new SC430 was just TOO expensive........it started at 61K. And even though I didn't particularly like the new body style, I liked the new SC's folding trick top and marvelous interior and would have strongly considered a new SC300 even though it probably would have ended up costing more than the IS300 I would up with. And they didn't do the SC in yellow either like my car.
The second major error with this engine on Lexus' part, IMO (although Lexus apparantly is going to address this on the new IS ) was not adapting it to AWD. I would have bought one in a heartbeat....even before the SC300. But......maybe there were good reasons for this....I have an open mind on it, and even though I think it was an error, I might be wrong. It might due to the long engine and transmission length making it difficult to adapt it to front differentials and other AWD hardware, or maybe it was that Lexus just didn't feel the IS sold well enough to warrant another major investment in the present version. Look at what happened when the SportCross came out....that was a complete flop.
Well, I join Mike in saying so long, old friend.... at least in new vehicles. It's not all bad news, though.... I'm sure Toyota / Lexus will keep at least some new or remanufactured engines in production a few more years to address those cars with warranty issues or accident damage.
This engine does in fact rank up among the very tops in durability......along with the famous Dodge-Plymouth "slant six" 170, 198, and 225 c.i. versions (2.8, 3.3, and 3.7 liters) that was built from 1960 to the mid 1980's. I learned to drive at age 16 in a 225 c.i. Plymouth.......THAT shows you how durable they were ( just kidding ) They routinely went 180,000-200,000 miles in an age when most engines were pretty much shot by 90,000-100,000 miles....and were economical to boot. Chrysler never adapted it to FWD, though....it was too long and heavy.
I, too will miss the 3.0 2JZ. I think it is without question the smoothest 6-banger I have ever driven...especially at idle and lower RPM's...smoother in some ways than the new Avalon's V6 that I recently test-drove. Mike, I think that much of the durability of this engine you mentioned comes from its weight.......being within a couple of pounds of the 4.3, the fact that they obviously put some metal into it, ( like the heavy Chrysler slant-six ) and , of course, the fact that it is a Toyota design to begin with. And, unlike its sister 3.0 V6 in the ES and RX, this engine would not bite back with sludge and gel if you were a little lax on oil changes....which of course you shouldn't be in the first place.
My only complaints with this engine are the oil filter location ( for DIY'ers, it could be MUCH better ) and the rather poor gas mileage by today's standards ( on premium gas, too) in stop-and-go driving, which I think is partly due to its weight and partly the IS300 transmission gearing and final-drive ratio....though in 5th gear highway driving the engine is quite relaxed.
The only other problems with this engine, IMO, were not the engine's fault and were due to the stubbornness of Lexus marketing and management. First, when the original (and beautiful ) SC300 was dropped, it was never replaced....only the 4.3 V8 carried over into the new Audi-TT look-alike. I have commented on this several times on other threads and will do so one last time in the final tribute........this policy IMO was a mistake. The new SC430 was just TOO expensive........it started at 61K. And even though I didn't particularly like the new body style, I liked the new SC's folding trick top and marvelous interior and would have strongly considered a new SC300 even though it probably would have ended up costing more than the IS300 I would up with. And they didn't do the SC in yellow either like my car.
The second major error with this engine on Lexus' part, IMO (although Lexus apparantly is going to address this on the new IS ) was not adapting it to AWD. I would have bought one in a heartbeat....even before the SC300. But......maybe there were good reasons for this....I have an open mind on it, and even though I think it was an error, I might be wrong. It might due to the long engine and transmission length making it difficult to adapt it to front differentials and other AWD hardware, or maybe it was that Lexus just didn't feel the IS sold well enough to warrant another major investment in the present version. Look at what happened when the SportCross came out....that was a complete flop.
Well, I join Mike in saying so long, old friend.... at least in new vehicles. It's not all bad news, though.... I'm sure Toyota / Lexus will keep at least some new or remanufactured engines in production a few more years to address those cars with warranty issues or accident damage.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-05-05 at 08:53 AM.
#6
all hail
Truly impressive. Right up there with the old BMW 1.5L 4-cylinders from the 2002 I believe (???-- correct me if I'm wrong). In the same way, BMW was able to use a stock production block and turbo it to 1500HP for use in F1.
Long live the 2JZ. You will be missed tremendously, but you will be with us always, never forgotten.
Long live the 2JZ. You will be missed tremendously, but you will be with us always, never forgotten.
#7
Originally Posted by AdrianXT
Truly impressive. Right up there with the old BMW 1.5L 4-cylinders from the 2002 I believe (???-- correct me if I'm wrong). In the same way, BMW was able to use a stock production block and turbo it to 1500HP for use in F1.
Trending Topics
#9
I am looking forward to finding a used GS300 and experiencing this engine. I have driven an is300 and sc300 briefly and I enjoyed the smoothness of the engine but felt it could use a little more power. Unfortunately it seems every manufacture is phasing out their inline sixes for v-6 except BMW. I think susuki, tvr, and chevy still use them but they are not that significant. Its ashame because inline sixes are stronger then v-6s, smoother, and better suited to FI. One thing that bugged me about lexus is that they did not give the is300 enough hp when it came out to outperform the 3 series and all the other high powered 6 cylinders from japan like the TL-S and G35. That engine should be putting out at least 250hp by now and would probrably outperform most of its competiton and sell better if it did
If toyota does bring back the supra it is not going to be the same without the overbuilt strong turbo inline 6. Same with the skyline GTR.
If toyota does bring back the supra it is not going to be the same without the overbuilt strong turbo inline 6. Same with the skyline GTR.
#10
I've been fortunate enough to own (2) Supra TT's now, one 93' and one 97'. My fondest memories of them to this day:
#1 - Blowing out not 1 but 2, spark plugs tips at Sears Point Raceway, still running a 12.8 AND going home with no problems.
#2 - Dynoing 412 RWHP and watching all the domestic boys drop their jaws. BPU owns.
#3 - Dynoing 345RWHP stock on my 97' Supra TT
#4 - Running 170mph down I5. TRAC mod ftw!
#5 - Entering into the middle "display of exhibition" between a Saleen Mustang / Camaro Z28 at a stoplight, and just gassing the car to let the BOV purge. Light turns green, no one wanted to go fast
#1 - Blowing out not 1 but 2, spark plugs tips at Sears Point Raceway, still running a 12.8 AND going home with no problems.
#2 - Dynoing 412 RWHP and watching all the domestic boys drop their jaws. BPU owns.
#3 - Dynoing 345RWHP stock on my 97' Supra TT
#4 - Running 170mph down I5. TRAC mod ftw!
#5 - Entering into the middle "display of exhibition" between a Saleen Mustang / Camaro Z28 at a stoplight, and just gassing the car to let the BOV purge. Light turns green, no one wanted to go fast
#11
Don't worry fellas. She is not gone or ever forgotten. The junkyards are filling with them more and more everyday so don't worry. There will be parts for a lot longer than most of us can maintain interest. The 3S-GTE was killed off prematurely and it still has a stronghold. And this with a motor that is nearly impossible to get your hands on domestically and with a comparably less friendly aftermarket.
The 2JZ is a legend. Production stopping will do nothing for it's reputation. That rep is lead by Supras, SC's and IS's and there's PLENTY of these to go around.
I'm actually surprised this motor made it this far. V6's are easier to package, put farther back, use in more configurations, are lighter, and easier share platforms with than longer straight 6's. I prefer the straight 6 don't get me wrong. But at a manufacturing standpoint the V6 makes more sense for Lexus. Especially when AWD is introduced into the product line. It just had to go.
Long live the king. It's not going anywhere.
The 2JZ is a legend. Production stopping will do nothing for it's reputation. That rep is lead by Supras, SC's and IS's and there's PLENTY of these to go around.
I'm actually surprised this motor made it this far. V6's are easier to package, put farther back, use in more configurations, are lighter, and easier share platforms with than longer straight 6's. I prefer the straight 6 don't get me wrong. But at a manufacturing standpoint the V6 makes more sense for Lexus. Especially when AWD is introduced into the product line. It just had to go.
Long live the king. It's not going anywhere.
#12
1sick, great pic.....great tribute. You've outdone yourself this time.
There are times I wish it had more power but the sound, the smoothness, the sweetness...it's just bad to the bone. Long live the 2JZ!!!
There are times I wish it had more power but the sound, the smoothness, the sweetness...it's just bad to the bone. Long live the 2JZ!!!
#15
Originally Posted by flipside909
The 2JZ was introduced for the MKIV JZA80 in 1993. The 1992 Supra MKIII was 7M powered. But yes the 2JZ engine was legendary, not to forget it's 0.5L smaller brother the 1JZ.
*JZ POWAH!