1984911Tar

I was wondering if anyone has an experiance with the 2005 S60R?

Looks like a pretty cool car, a little more then I want to spend.

Michael

jet864

I love love love it! Haven't gotten any wheel time but everything I've heard (mags and owners) is good. My one wish is that it had a more Subaru/Audi AWD system. Starting at $37k its quite the value for a 300hp luxury sports sedan.

James

rdollie

No, no, no. The Haldex II setup on the Volvo S60R is much more performance oriented than the AWD setups on the Subies and the Torsen Quattro setups. The Haldex II setup on the R is VERY unique. First, it distributes power based on acceleration meaning when you step on it the car shoves all the power to the rear and is RWD when you want it.

In the curves the active chassis and AWD system work together with a slew of sensors and will actually oversteer entering a corner, exhibit neutral handling at the apex, and understeer on exit for very fast cornering.

The S60R like all cars has its shortcomings but the AWD system isn't one of them if it is working properly in my experience (I've autocrossed the R a couple of times and it does quite well considering it's heavy weight - it's biggest disadvantage against say a STI.)

You can buy the S60R for $35,xxx under Volvo's overseas delivery program and that includes airfare for two, hotel, shipping, insurance, etc. It's a relative bargain.

1984911Tar

Under 35K, when I priced it with all the goodies it was like 43K!

jet864

My understanding was that the most biased it will become is 50/50 and during cruising its something like 10/90. I agree that Haldex is advanced and functions well but for me, personally, I prefer something less complex and more...old fashioned I guess one could say. I really enjoy how Subarus and Audis feel under various conditions and am not sure if Haldex can supply that. Again, this is just my opinion.

James

SecPole14

Yup. Freakin' Haldex won't even send power to the back unless it senses slip. Different strokes, I guess.

The S60R seems to be a bargain, but there are just too many no-nos for my taste. Curiously, the S60 structure is weaker than some previous Volvo models, which is disappointing.

But it does have looks and a healthy amount of performance. All in all, this car's pros and cons balance out to make me have a very neutral feeling about it. Very "eh."

rdollie

Yup, that $35k number is for a 6-speed R with leather, bi-xenons, and the other standard goodies. If you want the Dolby Pro II stereo, navigation system, etc etc. it's going to cost but it's still much much cheaper than a S4 or M3 and for $2k or so in aftermarket parts you can insure no S4 is going to outrun you (both the S4 and S60R are a bit too heavy for serious extended track use though and the S4 plows too much with the V8 hanging in front of the axle.)

rdollie

No doubt, Torsen feels a bit different. It's a purely mechanical solution with a static torque split. It will feel consistently the same regardless of conditions even when you would prefer and benefit from a diffent torque split.

Volvo's AWD systems are hard to stay on top of. To the best of my knowledge they currently actually have THREE different Haldex implementations in production (the latest is dubbed 'Instant Traction' and eliminates the last single advantage a Torsen diff. used to have while offer several unique advantages.) The AWD setup on the Volvo R's is a bit different from their other two setups but it does allow up to 100% of the power to be shoved to the rear as well as distribution of power from side to side as I recall:

http://208.34.84.160/S60R_V70R_PK/co...tronic_AWD.pdf

rdollie

No, you're wrong on a couple of items I'm afraid. This particular Haldex setup distributes power based on ACCELERATION OR WHEELSLIP:

http://208.34.84.160/S60R_V70R_PK/co...tronic_AWD.pdf

Regarding the structure comment you are simply 100% off here I'm afraid. The S60 is built on Volvo's large car platform the P2 and it is easily the strongest and tightest platform they built with the possible exception of their newer P1 small car platform (I haven't seen any hertz numbers on this one yet.)

GFerg

Yep. I've spent way to much time with the S60R/V70R. Its a great car. Go for it. If you want to see what I think about the R, just click on the linky. Its just a pretty short review on the R and the rest of there car line up. If you want more info and more of my opinions, just hit me up.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ght=Volvo+Line

mmarshall

Jim.....you're generally on the right track.
rdollie is correct that the Volvo Haldex AWD ( a system, incedentially, shared with Ford on some of the newer Ford AWD designs like the Freestyle and Five Hundred) is somewhat better suited for the high-performance driving and autocrossing he is referring to...as is the new Acura SHD AWD on the new RL, but for YOUR specific needs in the Seattle area there (such as just going through a lot of rain, wet snow and the Coastal mountains) and the price ranges you are looking at, it is really hard to beat Subaru. Subies use 5 different AWD center-differential systems depending on specific engine-transmission combinations. See this web site for details it is very informative:

http://www.subaru.com./allwheeldrive/ver2005/index.jsp

It it generally acknowledged that Subaru makes the best and the most well-tested AWD systems in the $30,000 and under range. The inexpensive Toyota and Honda AWD systems used in the RAV4, Matrix, and CRV / Element are ALSO very reliable but they are more complex than the Subaru systems due to their transverse-mount engines, will cost more to repair if something does go wrong after the drivetrain warranty is up...which with a Honda is only 3/36, and my guess is those type of vehicles probably will not appeal to you.

After the Subaru 5-year drivetrain warranty is up, their AWD systems are much less expensive to repair than upmarket European systems like the Volvo Haldex, Audi Quattro, and Mercedes 4-Matic.
So...unless you really want or need the kind of system that rdollie is refering to ( and he does have a point ) go with a Subie.

SecPole14

Do not insult me or yourself. Check REAL ratings from IIHS and EURONCAP. The 1993 850/S70 scores higher than the S60!!!! It doesn't even score as well as the S80 or XC90...I guess someone at the esteemed engineering center was asleep at the wheel.

The Saab 9-3 and the Malibu share the platform, but the Saab does markedly better under severe stress. Get it?

So I'm afraid YOU'RE wrong.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Guys keep this discussion friendly please. That last post was a marked downturn in the type of intelligent disagreement we'd like to see on our forum.

rdollie

Sorry Adrian, your knowledge of Volvos is simply lacking in this case.

First, the S60 didn't score as highly as the S80 or XC90 which is NOT a surprise. All three are built on the SAME P2 platform and the S60 is the smallest of these three.

While the S60 did have more footwell intrusion than the S70/850 as I recall it's overall crash test scores look the same at EuroNCAP from what I can see:

http://www.euroncap.com/content/safe...troduction.php

In NHTSA tests the S70 did better than the S60 for frontal loads and the S60 did better for side impacts than the S70. Overall the S70 earned 5-star frontal ratings and 4-star side ratings. The S60 earned 4-star frontal ratings and 5-star side impact ratings. Here's the links:

http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/2994.html
http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/757.html

Regarding your Malibu/9-3 story I'm not sure I see the significance at all. The older Volvo S40 did much better in EuroNCAP than the Mitsu Carisma which shared a floorpan as well but again I don't see the significance to this discussion?

VSsc400

iTrader: (1)

my coworker has a volvo S60R manual.

She's owned it for about 18 months and she has a bit under 6,000 miles. Her commute is about 120 miles per day round trip. The rest of the time the car spent it's life at the dealer.

One time she brought her S60R and they gave her another S60R as a loaner. That same night she had to go back to the dealer for another loaner because the SRS ABS CEL lights came on. The same reason why she brought her car in, in the first place.

she says she will never own another volvo product ever again. She did say that it's pretty sweet when the car is drivable.


Her other car is a rare blue toyota camry 2 door 5speed with over 200,000 miles on the odo.