mmarshall

I doubt it, at least in the forseeable future...for a couple of reasons. First,the ES's wet / snow traction with FWD and a fairly heavy front end is not bad to start with. Second, the transverse-design of the ES powertrain would make AWD more difficult to do than the rear-drive IS and GS, which, like Subarus, have the engine output shaft coming straight out the back. Third, there does not seem to be a big demand among ES customers for it like there is with RWD Lexus products.

However, that is not to say that the ES cannot be done with a transverse-engine AWD design, should the market demand it. Many auto manufacturers have made reliable, durable, and successful transverse AWD designs...it is just more complex, that's all. Good examples of transverse-AWD design are the Toyota RAV4, Highlander, and Matrix, Honda CRV and Pilot, Hyundai Tuscon and Santa Fe, Lexus RX330, Ford Escape, Mercury Mariner, and a number of others.

mmarshall

NO....not price alone. The ES does sell the best among Lexus products, but the non-SportCross IS undercuts it a little on price. Going by price alone, the IS would be the top Lexus seller.....and it is in fact one of the slowest sellers.

Incendiary

That's because Americans are dumb and have this thing against hatches/wagons. An IS SportCross would clearly be the way to go if you wanted a sporty Lexus with room to haul crap. Dunno if it comes in manual, don't think it does, but that would be the Lexus I'd want if it did.

mmarshall

I disagree that the ES needs an upgrade. It is a SUPERB car just the way it is, with one or two minor exceptions....the electronic shift programming in the transmission and those U-G-L-Y sweep-up headlights, both of which are easily addressed without a major redesign.

But an upgrade just for the sake of an upgrade? If it ain't broke, dude, DON'T fix it. Chris Bangle at BMW is a perfect example of what happens when you DO.

<VENOM>

The ES is fine, power upgrade and a sport tune suspension would make me happy

Now for the bangle cars, tons of peope are still buying the cars and the new GS has a rear end styled 5Series butt

mmarshall

The SportCross is more expensive than the regular IS300. It roughly equals the ES330's price range. The IS300 sedan undercuts the ES.....yet the ES still outsells it. That was what I was referring to in my reply to O.L.T. And, BTW, I do not know of any SportCrosses with manual transmissions. I don't think it was ever offered in that body style.

You have a point, though, about Americans shunning hatchbacks, but that is clearly starting to change, especialy among people who need to carry things. Perhaps the best example is the Mini Cooper.....an extroardinarily space-efficient vehicle for its size. Demand for that car in both standard and Cooper S versions has grossly exceeded supply since Day One. The Scion xB, an ugly vehicle but also with superb space efficiency, is also selling quite briskly in spite of its looks.

mmarshall

Yes, I understand what you want here, but Lexus did not intend for the ES to be a sports sedan....that was the purpose of the GS and IS. The ES is superb at what it does best...eat up miles smoothly and quietly on the Interstate as a cruiser.

Yes, some people buy Chris Bangle's designs.....but a whole lot of other people, particularly former BMW enthusiasts, DON'T.
BMW has lost the core of their best and most loyal supporters....the people that helped make the nameplate what it became up till recently....the Ultimate Driving Machine. Now it is the Ultimate Computer Machine....and shoddily-built ones at that.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

In a couple years, all those so-called bimmer enthusiasts will return.
I happen to like the ES. It is as intended, entrl level luxury....and it is luxury. The headlights could be better but aren't as ugly as some other Lexus cars.
I was one of those singing praises of the new TL. I had a long talk with a salesman the other day. He said putting on aftermarket wheels will nullify the warranty. I said what about getting wheel with the exact same specs as stock. He wouldn't give. You change, no warranty. That kills it for me.

Gojirra99

I think that's just BS on his part, & which part of the warranty does it nullify ?
I have aftermarket wheels on both my cars & when I brought them back to the dealer for maintainence, they admired them & never said such BS.

In fact, I had a nail last year in one of my SC430 's Michelin Pilot Sports A/S which I replaced the stock runflats with, which I didn't even get from my dealer, & they patched it for me under warranty. I think the logic is that it would have got the same nail nomatter which tire you have on.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

No no, he was talking about Acura. Just this particular Acura. That does not apply to any Acura that does not come with the electronic aids like traction control, all wheel drive, steering control...that stuff. We know Lexus is okay with aftermarket wheels and so is Infiniti. I agree this guy may not know what he is talking about but until I hear more, I have to take his word on it.

OneOfOne

for all the hype about the es it is not a great car and it is not a good car. its a way for a certain demographic to get into a lexus without having to buy an is which does not look like a luxury vehicle. drive a camry and then drive an es and tell me what the real difference is. if lexus made a car similar to the tl with more comfort they couldnt build enough of them. the es is for people who want to say 'I bought a new lexus'. its the worst lexus hands down.

OneOfOne

he doesnt have a clue. when I bought my tl last year I had my rims sent from california to the dealer in connecticut to put on when I picked the car up. one of the sales people told me that a customer coming to pick up her tl asked why she didnt get the rims I did.

mmarshall

Your opinion noted, and you are entitled to it, but I can't buy it. I don't see where your opinion here is based on any fact.

An ES is more than just a redone Camry or a "cheap" way to get into a Lexus. I HAVE driven BOTH cars...several different models of each. A Camry is a fine car....probably the best mass-market family mid-size sedan available, which is why it and the Accord dominate the annual sales figures. But a Camry, in spite of the fact that it shares a common platform with the ES330, RX330, and Highlander, is NOT an ES. There are major differences in sound insulation, quality, quantity, and amount of wood trim, standard equipment, stereo quality, paint job, floodlit instruments, and many other areas. The ES's interior, especially, just blows the Camry's away...it is not even a contest. The only possible Camry advantage is that the Camry's automatic transmission has different electronic shift controls and has not had as many complaints as the ES's has in erratic shifting and hesitation. Most of that, though, has been corrected for 2004 and 2005.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry but there is no way you have driven both the Camry and ES to think they are the same. My mom had a Camry and I ahve an ES. Drove my Mom's car many times. The Camry drives pretty good with nice fit and finish. It is not a luxury car though. The ES has better everything...except maybe the engine. It is faster than the Camry so even that is better. But, you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't understand it at all.

<VENOM>

if 1 can say the ES is no better then a camry 1 could also say the LS is a poor excuse for an S-Class, 7 Series competitor, it's more suited against 5 Series, E Class sedans