Acura Hybrid Definitely on Tap, Exec Says (and Toyota comments)
04-03-05, 01:24 AM
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Acura Hybrid Definitely on Tap, Exec Says (and Toyota comments)
Acura Hybrid Definitely on Tap, Exec Says
By Christie Schweinsberg
WardsAuto.com, Feb 3 2005
Honda executive says a hybrid application for Acura will require good performance characteristics beyond fuel efficiency.
DETROIT – After outfitting its Civic and Accord models with hybrid powertrains, American Honda Motor Co. Inc. says it eventually will fit a hybrid electric powertrain for a model in its Acura luxury line.
However, an executive says performance, not fuel efficiency, will be the first priority for Honda when it comes to an Acura hybrid electric model (HEV).
Honda will add Acura hybrid.
“If we are to do a hybrid for Acura, and we will in the future – it’s not in the short-term plan – but if we look further down the road, it’ll be more the performance-oriented version, probably with an improvement in fuel economy as well, but the primary focus will be on performance,” Tom Elliot, executive vice president-American Honda, says.
“Perhaps it will have all-wheel-drive capability if it didn’t already have that,” he adds.
An Acura executive told Ward’s last fall Acura likely would expand all-wheel-drive to include models in addition to the RL flagship, with the TL being the next likely candidate. (See related story: Acura to Expand AWD Offerings, Possibly Offer Hybrid)
Elliot says Honda-badged HEVs will continue to focus on improving fuel economy. The Accord Hybrid, which went on sale last month, already combines performance and fuel economy, with its 3L V-6 engine making 255 hp and fuel economy ratings of 29 city (8.1 L/100 km) and 37 highway (6.4L/100 km).
While Toyota Motor Corp. has said it, too, eventually will offer hybrid versions of nearly all its models, with the hybrid Toyota Highlander and Lexus 400h SUVs coming this year, Honda maintains a similar, but quieter, strategy.
“We’re already ahead in that area,” Elliot says of expanding hybrids to existing models. “We don’t feel the future is one-off special cars with a hybrid.
Elliot says Honda continues to improve its HEV technology with each successive application. “So the Accord now has benefited on lessons learned from Civic and Insight, whether it’s battery technology, electric motors, packaging, cost, weight.
“The technology is still evolving,” he says, adding the auto maker is reluctant to go into high-volume production of HEV models while still discovering the ins and outs of the technology.
“You don’t want to mass produce something that the next year is obsolete,” he cautions. “At some point in the future I think we’ll feel we’re at the point where we are comfortable enough that we can say we’re now ready to go to higher production.”
Meanwhile, Elliot says Honda sold about 1,110 Accord Hybrids from mid-December to early January. He says the auto maker is not doing a lot of promotion of the model because of supply constraints. Honda plans to sell about 20,000 Accord Hybrids in 2005, with the vehicle accounting for nearly half of its 50,000-unit hybrid target for the year.
“Although it’s a very good halo vehicle, and we will advertise it some, we won’t do a continuous campaign because we won’t be able to supply if the demand is really high, and we don’t want a situation where we have people who can’t get the product,” says Elliot, alluding to Toyota’s predicament last year when a Prius wait grew to six months.
Elliot admits media attention lavished on Toyota for its HEV technology rubs a nerve, as Honda currently has three HEVs on sale in the U.S. (Accord, Civic, and Insight), while Toyota offers only the Prius.
“Does it bother us a lot? No,” he says. “Does it bother us a little? Maybe, because (Toyota’s) got one hybrid on sale and we’ve got three; it seems sometimes that fact may be overlooked.
“But on the other hand, they’re putting a lot of money and effort into their hybrid promotion, much more than we are. That’s not necessarily our style to do that.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_acura_h...tely/index.htm
By Christie Schweinsberg
WardsAuto.com, Feb 3 2005
Honda executive says a hybrid application for Acura will require good performance characteristics beyond fuel efficiency.
DETROIT – After outfitting its Civic and Accord models with hybrid powertrains, American Honda Motor Co. Inc. says it eventually will fit a hybrid electric powertrain for a model in its Acura luxury line.
However, an executive says performance, not fuel efficiency, will be the first priority for Honda when it comes to an Acura hybrid electric model (HEV).
Honda will add Acura hybrid.
“If we are to do a hybrid for Acura, and we will in the future – it’s not in the short-term plan – but if we look further down the road, it’ll be more the performance-oriented version, probably with an improvement in fuel economy as well, but the primary focus will be on performance,” Tom Elliot, executive vice president-American Honda, says.
“Perhaps it will have all-wheel-drive capability if it didn’t already have that,” he adds.
An Acura executive told Ward’s last fall Acura likely would expand all-wheel-drive to include models in addition to the RL flagship, with the TL being the next likely candidate. (See related story: Acura to Expand AWD Offerings, Possibly Offer Hybrid)
Elliot says Honda-badged HEVs will continue to focus on improving fuel economy. The Accord Hybrid, which went on sale last month, already combines performance and fuel economy, with its 3L V-6 engine making 255 hp and fuel economy ratings of 29 city (8.1 L/100 km) and 37 highway (6.4L/100 km).
While Toyota Motor Corp. has said it, too, eventually will offer hybrid versions of nearly all its models, with the hybrid Toyota Highlander and Lexus 400h SUVs coming this year, Honda maintains a similar, but quieter, strategy.
“We’re already ahead in that area,” Elliot says of expanding hybrids to existing models. “We don’t feel the future is one-off special cars with a hybrid.
Elliot says Honda continues to improve its HEV technology with each successive application. “So the Accord now has benefited on lessons learned from Civic and Insight, whether it’s battery technology, electric motors, packaging, cost, weight.
“The technology is still evolving,” he says, adding the auto maker is reluctant to go into high-volume production of HEV models while still discovering the ins and outs of the technology.
“You don’t want to mass produce something that the next year is obsolete,” he cautions. “At some point in the future I think we’ll feel we’re at the point where we are comfortable enough that we can say we’re now ready to go to higher production.”
Meanwhile, Elliot says Honda sold about 1,110 Accord Hybrids from mid-December to early January. He says the auto maker is not doing a lot of promotion of the model because of supply constraints. Honda plans to sell about 20,000 Accord Hybrids in 2005, with the vehicle accounting for nearly half of its 50,000-unit hybrid target for the year.
“Although it’s a very good halo vehicle, and we will advertise it some, we won’t do a continuous campaign because we won’t be able to supply if the demand is really high, and we don’t want a situation where we have people who can’t get the product,” says Elliot, alluding to Toyota’s predicament last year when a Prius wait grew to six months.
Elliot admits media attention lavished on Toyota for its HEV technology rubs a nerve, as Honda currently has three HEVs on sale in the U.S. (Accord, Civic, and Insight), while Toyota offers only the Prius.
“Does it bother us a lot? No,” he says. “Does it bother us a little? Maybe, because (Toyota’s) got one hybrid on sale and we’ve got three; it seems sometimes that fact may be overlooked.
“But on the other hand, they’re putting a lot of money and effort into their hybrid promotion, much more than we are. That’s not necessarily our style to do that.
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_acura_h...tely/index.htm
04-03-05, 12:41 PM
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Supply constraints...
...no wonder I hear more about 'Honda safety' than Honda Hybrids...
Then again Honda has an overall sales slump so its possible this is affecting all unique models across the board. The way I see it, the more hybrids the better! Hopefully Honda will improve with its hybrid division soon.
And, true Honda has more hybrid models, but their one unique hybrid model, the Insight, is not as large or as sexy as the Prius. You don't hear about Hollywood types driving the Insight, do you?
But kudos to Honda for offering more hybrid models NOW than Toyota, although it seems from this article that Toyota has better supply and also has a larger hybrid lineup forthcoming.
...no wonder I hear more about 'Honda safety' than Honda Hybrids...
Then again Honda has an overall sales slump so its possible this is affecting all unique models across the board. The way I see it, the more hybrids the better! Hopefully Honda will improve with its hybrid division soon.
And, true Honda has more hybrid models, but their one unique hybrid model, the Insight, is not as large or as sexy as the Prius. You don't hear about Hollywood types driving the Insight, do you?
But kudos to Honda for offering more hybrid models NOW than Toyota, although it seems from this article that Toyota has better supply and also has a larger hybrid lineup forthcoming.
04-03-05, 02:50 PM
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is it just me or does it seem like Honda/Acura are always 2 steps behind of Toyota/Lexus and other car manufacturers.
They're PILOT and RIDGELINE came out late in the market. They are also slow in bringing hybrids.
They're PILOT and RIDGELINE came out late in the market. They are also slow in bringing hybrids.
04-05-05, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LEXUS FAN!
is it just me or does it seem like Honda/Acura are always 2 steps behind of Toyota/Lexus and other car manufacturers.
They're PILOT and RIDGELINE came out late in the market. They are also slow in bringing hybrids.
They're PILOT and RIDGELINE came out late in the market. They are also slow in bringing hybrids.
04-05-05, 05:47 PM
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I always wondered why there was no Acura hybrid with 3 Honda hybrids on the market. It would seem very logical to make Acura hybrids. One would think that they could have monopolied that market had they moved on it sooner. Now they are a tailing a few years behind everyone else. Oh well, good for Acura, they are looking towards the future now. 
04-05-05, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LEXUS FAN!
is it just me or does it seem like Honda/Acura are always 2 steps behind of Toyota/Lexus and other car manufacturers.
They're PILOT and RIDGELINE came out late in the market. They are also slow in bringing hybrids.
They're PILOT and RIDGELINE came out late in the market. They are also slow in bringing hybrids.
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04-06-05, 02:32 AM
#8
A lot of it has to do the the money for reserach and developement. As much money as we think Honda has, Toyota has a lot more of it. Toyota can afford to throw money at future products and even can afford to fail on some of those products. Honda can't afford to throw money on projects that might fail, so they can't be as brave to try out any and all things. They have to choose carefully. Hybrids has always been something Honda wanted to do though. Let's face it, if Toyota didn't have as much money as they do, I don't think we would see as much hybrids coming out at once like the Highlander, RX400H, GS350H and such. They would have had to be like Honda and play the markey with the Civic and Accord to test the waters first then branch out once they felt the buying public was ready for it. Myslf as an example. I would champion the developement of hybrids, but I'm not ready to plop down my own money for it.
Also, I think Camron Diaz had a large role with Hollywood and the Prius. Before she bought one and started singing its praises I never say anyone in Hollywood driving one. Imagine if she bought a Honda Insight or Hybrid Civic instead? Would the Prius be getting as much paise as it is now in the media? Personally, I myself would choose a hybrid Civic or Accord since it looks normal. I can't stand the Insight and Prius in terms of looks.
Also, I think Camron Diaz had a large role with Hollywood and the Prius. Before she bought one and started singing its praises I never say anyone in Hollywood driving one. Imagine if she bought a Honda Insight or Hybrid Civic instead? Would the Prius be getting as much paise as it is now in the media? Personally, I myself would choose a hybrid Civic or Accord since it looks normal. I can't stand the Insight and Prius in terms of looks.
Last edited by CK6Speed; 04-06-05 at 02:37 AM.
04-06-05, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Incendiary
I thought the Insight came out before the Prius, or do I have it backwards?
Originally Posted by Iceman
That's somewhat of an unfair assertion. Acura predated Lexus, for example. VTEC was the first variable valve timing technology. They pioneered 4-wheel steering and forced wheel torque management on various generations of the Prelude. The del Sol was a product with no match in the marketplace, as is the S2000. The Element predated the Scion xB, I believe. The MDX redefined the mid-luxury SUV segment, and it was a marketing decision to hold off on the Pilot for a couple of years. And to say they're slow in bringing hybrids is perhaps only true compared to Toyota--what other carmaker sells any (the Escape hybrid is barely out)?
First of all, the xB came out before the Element, and what you are talking about the del Sol, it matched up with the Miata, so it did have competition. The S2000 has the TT, Z4, and Boxter against it, so it has quite a few matches.
And the MDX has not redefined the market at all. If you this so, why do you believe it? The RX is the one that has sold more, and it is the first luxury hybrid SUV.
04-06-05, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LEXUS FAN!
IFirst of all, the xB came out before the Element, and what you are talking about the del Sol, it matched up with the Miata, so it did have competition. The S2000 has the TT, Z4, and Boxter against it, so it has quite a few matches.
And the MDX has not redefined the market at all. If you this so, why do you believe it? The RX is the one that has sold more, and it is the first luxury hybrid SUV.
And the MDX has not redefined the market at all. If you this so, why do you believe it? The RX is the one that has sold more, and it is the first luxury hybrid SUV.
Although many shoppers may have cross-shopped the del Sol and Miata, personally I see them as very different cars. The "pseudo-convertible" nature of the del Sol made it unique in my eyes, especially the choices regarding top on/off and rear window up/down.
As for the S2000, it's really a different beast than those cars you mentioned. Even I cross-shopped it before I bought my M Roadster, and found the S2000 to be the very definition of a pocket rocket, but with very little refinement. Having to keep the revs above 7,000 just to get power was something that would have taken some getting used to! I definitely wouldn't say it competes directly against cars like the Boxster or TT, which are far slower and aimed more at the luxury roadster buyer.
If you look back to when the MDX was first introduced, it basically blew the RX300 away in terms of features, size, utility (the "U" in SUV, after all), and most of all price. Acura WAY under-manufactured which led to waiting lists for over two years. The RX has sold more due to a better match of supply to demand, and it's certainly true that Lexus is beating Acura to the hybrid punch. But some of the quotes in that original article about how Acura is planning to use hybrids more for performance than economy make me think they're going down the exact same road as Toyota (economy) and Lexus (performance). In that regard the OP is definitely correct--Honda has seen the tremendous potential in Toyota's approach to hybrids, and plans to follow it closely.
04-06-05, 05:59 PM
#11
Originally Posted by LEXUS FAN!
I think the Prius came out before, but not positive. Besides though, the Insight hardly sells. It is not a hybrid, it is an electric vehicle, so they can't really compare.
Originally Posted by LEXUS FAN!
First of all, the xB came out before the Element
Originally Posted by LEXUS FAN!
And the MDX has not redefined the market at all. If you this so, why do you believe it? The RX is the one that has sold more, and it is the first luxury hybrid SUV.
04-06-05, 07:10 PM
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I believe the Prius is the first mass production hybrid made, Insight was the first that was sold in America.
Toyota bB came out first, than Element and than Toyota made the bB into Scion Xb and sell it here (I think)
Toyota bB came out first, than Element and than Toyota made the bB into Scion Xb and sell it here (I think)
04-11-05, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman
My bad on the Element vs xB--I just know I saw Elements on the road first (and still see more on the road today).
Although many shoppers may have cross-shopped the del Sol and Miata, personally I see them as very different cars. The "pseudo-convertible" nature of the del Sol made it unique in my eyes, especially the choices regarding top on/off and rear window up/down.
As for the S2000, it's really a different beast than those cars you mentioned. Even I cross-shopped it before I bought my M Roadster, and found the S2000 to be the very definition of a pocket rocket, but with very little refinement. Having to keep the revs above 7,000 just to get power was something that would have taken some getting used to! I definitely wouldn't say it competes directly against cars like the Boxster or TT, which are far slower and aimed more at the luxury roadster buyer.
If you look back to when the MDX was first introduced, it basically blew the RX300 away in terms of features, size, utility (the "U" in SUV, after all), and most of all price. Acura WAY under-manufactured which led to waiting lists for over two years. The RX has sold more due to a better match of supply to demand, and it's certainly true that Lexus is beating Acura to the hybrid punch. But some of the quotes in that original article about how Acura is planning to use hybrids more for performance than economy make me think they're going down the exact same road as Toyota (economy) and Lexus (performance). In that regard the OP is definitely correct--Honda has seen the tremendous potential in Toyota's approach to hybrids, and plans to follow it closely.
Although many shoppers may have cross-shopped the del Sol and Miata, personally I see them as very different cars. The "pseudo-convertible" nature of the del Sol made it unique in my eyes, especially the choices regarding top on/off and rear window up/down.
As for the S2000, it's really a different beast than those cars you mentioned. Even I cross-shopped it before I bought my M Roadster, and found the S2000 to be the very definition of a pocket rocket, but with very little refinement. Having to keep the revs above 7,000 just to get power was something that would have taken some getting used to! I definitely wouldn't say it competes directly against cars like the Boxster or TT, which are far slower and aimed more at the luxury roadster buyer.
If you look back to when the MDX was first introduced, it basically blew the RX300 away in terms of features, size, utility (the "U" in SUV, after all), and most of all price. Acura WAY under-manufactured which led to waiting lists for over two years. The RX has sold more due to a better match of supply to demand, and it's certainly true that Lexus is beating Acura to the hybrid punch. But some of the quotes in that original article about how Acura is planning to use hybrids more for performance than economy make me think they're going down the exact same road as Toyota (economy) and Lexus (performance). In that regard the OP is definitely correct--Honda has seen the tremendous potential in Toyota's approach to hybrids, and plans to follow it closely.
Well, actually. It depends where you were in the United States for when the xB came out because I live in CA, so it came out in June 2003, but for the east coast and I think some of the southern states it came in Feb. 2004, and for the Mid-West, it came out in June 2004. It all depends on where you live.
I disagree with you about the MDX, but we just different opinions, so it is no use in trying to argue it.
And you may see the del Sol and Miata and the S2000 and Z4 as different cars, but they are the same because they are competing for the same market. No matter how you think the cars looks are or how you think they are built, they are taking from the same consumer group. Even in the car magazines, they always compare the S2000 with the TT, Z4, Boxster, and a few others.
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