encore888

I realize that Lexus stands upon, and benefits from, Toyota's automotive history of more than 60 years. And many Lexus cars have been rebadged Toyota's--however Lexus more than any other Japanese make tries to differentiate its shared-platform vehicles from their mainstream counterparts--in ways more than skin-deep (e.g. ES 330).

But when I was reading the latest BusinessWeek review of the Toyota Avalon, it struck me that Lexus improvements, trickling down to Toyota's product line, seem to benefit Toyota more than Lexus. The reviews going back as far as the Camry two generations ago talk about the Toyotas as 'like Lexuses'...but you don't wan't to have a Lexus reviewed as 'like a Toyota'...as much.

Would it work to have more Lexus 'exclusive' features, etc.? Lexus is already doing some of that such as with L-Finesse, but SmartAccess, the NAVI, and other features are equal on some Toyota's and Lexuses...it seems that the line is rather blurred. Would prestige be the only factor separating the two?

TwiBlueG35

Besides the more luxurious features that are exclusive for Lexus vehicles, I think Lexus tries to differentiate itself from Toyota by obtaining rear-wheel-drive for its cars, while Toyota cars are all front-wheel-drive. Plus, although the lower-end Lexus vehicles are sharing many mechanicals parts with some high-end Toyota vehicles, the top Lexus vehicles would still maintain exclusive powertrains, chassis, transimission, etc. I don't think you would ever see a V8 engine powered Toyota Avalon or Toyota Camry. I think the current Lexus still implies a much higher brand image than Toyota, at least much more so than what Acura against Honda. I would feel very unhappy if there is no Lexus anymore, but I probably don't have bad feeling if all Acura models are rebadged as Honda again(I love the H badge a lot more than the A badge ).

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i think what they are doing now is just perfect, no need to deviate more from toyota. they just made the move in japan to have the lexus brand too, i think that's good idea, so lexus is going to be a totally separate and independent entirty and they will have their own designs, that's perfect, instead of sharing anything with toyota

and on a side note, i think they did a very very good job with the scion brand as well. not trying to do anything to lower the level of toyota but they are able to put up cars that are even cheaper for high school students or people who look for absolute bargains on cars. my friend has an xA, what a steal

/Aerostar\

iTrader: (2)

Besides the ES250's, give an example of this.

ArmyofOne

^ man, eventhe ES250's werent rebaged camry's:

Camry:



ES259



they look alot different in my eye, i can spot an ES250 from a camry from a very large distance.


and to really get the feel, take a ride in an ES250 and then in a 90 camry...thn drive them both, you will feel the difference quickly.

L-Finesser

As said above, L will have to differentiate from T -- epecially in Japan. Interestingly, Scion feels quite different from Toyota. I think the folks who do a poor job of differentiating brands is Honda/Acura. I see more differentiation between Nissan/Infiniti and Audi/VW. Obviously, there's a differnce between BMW and Mini.

lkirchner

As another post asked on this forum, where does Lexus stand vis a vis BMW and Mercedes as far as image is concerned? The consensus was that it is still a notch below those 2 marques. I agree and have to wonder if it is not that Lexus still has not distanced itself far enough away from Toyota. Look at the new Avalon; people are comparing it to the ES. Some are even comparing it to the LS and I can see why. A Toyota compared to the flagship truly shows how the brand differentiation is just not working.

xioix

why move toyota down market when it can move both up at the same time, these new toyota models can be like the lexus was a few years ago, and the new lexus steps it up again and proves that it is more than just a toyota

encore888

ES 300

ES 330

LX 450

LX 470

And of course the Lexus cars sold as Toyota's in Japan, a practice which is now ending.

Perhaps I should be more clear, I realize that Lexus cars are not 'rebadged' in the strict sense, Lexus does a far better job of modifying the shared platform used in the models.

And having driven a Toyota Camry of the ES 250 generation, I often mistook the ES 250 for the Camry. Maybe it's just me, but the resemblance seemed virtually exact, down to the dashboard console, seat adjustment ****, etc. The engine was probably a different story.

Just recently I read the Automotive Bears article which referenced that the 'rebadging' efforts, particularly the LX 450, diluted the Lexus brand, and when comparing out Lexus with our Toyota cars, I sometimes feel there is a blurring of the line.

Edit: And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Toyota. Having driven two Camrys, and one Sienna, I can tell you those cars are the best out there. Just that when it comes to luxury, sometimes the 'unreasonable' demand of being 'exclusive' and 'perfect' can create a conundrum.

bizzy928

Whats the need? There is no shame in driving a Toyota

SupraCoup3

don't see many MKIV Supra owners complaining

NeverSatisfied

totally.

I think Toyota/Lexus' marketing works well. The Avalon, especially the interior, is very Lexus-like, but the exterior says otherwise. Other than the Avalon and Land Cruiser, I don't think any other Toyota-badged model can be seen as "equal or more" than a Lexus.

redkingjoe

toyota is one of the best. lexus is best of the best.

ntran18

iTrader: (27)

Also keep in mind that Toyota makes the full range, from low end econos to premium high end cars. They just happened to sell the econos here as Scion & the high end as Lexus.

LexFather

Actually they are, if you look at the tons of press releases we post here, they are seperating more and more, from management to styling to seperate centers etc. It won't be an overnight process but the 2 will continue to seperate.

I think the 2 being similar is clearly a benefit, the only negative is losing some 'prestige" but hey, outside of BMW, everyone is owned by someone else.

And Lexus has done the absolute BEST job of the other 2 Japanese companies seperating Lexus from its orgins.