flipside909

Exactly! Same with the RX400h and even the Highlander Hybrid!

biker

My information on this issue is first hand observation of the I95 HOV lanes (two weeks ago) and friends who told me they bought their hybrid so they could use that road.

You don't need a degree in enconomics to realize that you can't keep increasing sales when the underlying economics of the product doesn't make sense. At a $5K+ premium over the regular gas version and at $3/gal for gas it makes no sense economically to buy a hybrid for most people. For bragging rights, a little extra performance, very slightly better emissions yes it makes sense, on economics no. This is only true when comparing the same gas powered vehicle with its hybrid sibling. The case is totally different for the Prius.

flipside909

One day's observation isn't a accurate calculation of what hybrid vehicles are sold in the particular area you are in. And your friends do not account for all 100% of hybrid sales in the DC area or wherever you're at. Hybrid vehicle sales is #1 in CA for a very good reason. Gas prices. No we do not have HOV lane access for hybrid vehicles. They are excluded. That argument fails to exist especially since we have the most hybrid sales in any state or any country for that matter. So once again, unless you can base your numbers of facts instead of friend's experience, let's talk.

Again, have you ever driven a Prius or ever experienced fuel economy first hand of this vehicle? Probably not. If you look at the general public who buys hybrid vehicles here in CA, most of them are used for commuting purposes...yes short city trips and slow gridlock traffic situations. You actually benefit w/a Hybrid in CA because the usage of the electric motor in stop and go traffic. I can go on and on about this. Nothing will convince you that hybrid is the way to go...which we already know. Economically it makes sense...if you can stretch out a whole tank of gas a few days or a week longer than a comparable gas saving vehicle...you will see the savings especially if gas price average is $2.60 for unleaded and your daily commute is in the 30-50 mile round trip range per day. Obviously you never will see this since you only see an outsiders point of view on a hybrid vehicle like the Prius. I can agree with you to an extent that a Hybrid is not the most economical for some people but it makes sense for many living out here in CA regardless if it's for clean air or not. Here in SoCal, a popular sized small car (corolla, civic, sentra and etc) with a good amount of options is already in the $18-20k ballpark. Many Prius sales are going at $21-22k (base model but loaded with the same general options as the gas counterpart) through a good sized dealer. There's only a 2-3k difference in pricing. If you can save that much in gas...and stretch out a tank longer, you're better off. Especially if you drive alot of miles. Where are you getting this BS inflated 5K+ premium? Again you're biased to what you read and hear about on the internet.

An in addition, if the Prius ever qualifies for a federal tax break...the consumer is advantageous.

xioix

i guess you dont know much about economics, when the production of hybrids are increased, the price to make the electric motors will be dwindled down, and they would be an add on option or standard in the future

biker

RX330 equiped like the 400H 43K that gets a combined 20MPG

RX400H 49K that gets 30MPG

Assuming 10K miles per year and gas at $3.00/gal. it would take about 7 years to recoup the extra up front cost with the gas milage savings. This is longer than most people keep their car. As I said, it does not make sense economically.

Yes you can visit the pump less often, yes it makes sense if the numbers are juggled (more miles per year, gas more expensive, get a deal off the price of the 400H or more expensive 330) but for this car at the current prices this is the reality.

Same for the Highlander, same for the Accord, same for the Civic. In general the regular gas version of the hybrid is cheaper than the hybrid by such an amount that typically the savings don't get paid back in the normal lifespan of the car with one owner.

There's nothing wrong with hybrids - hybrids are great. You get both milage and performance gains. It's just at the current premiums over the regular gas version of the same car it does not make sense financially.

As I said, again, it does not work for the Prius since it doesn't have a regular gas equivalent.

biker

Yes and if the car maker is nice enough to pass on the savings to the consumer and only charge 1K premium for the hybrid then it makes sense. Currently, it does not.

flipside909

It doesn't make sense to you and you only...financially, but it's a perfect solution others.

I really think you don't understand the big picture of the Prius in general because the arguments you're trying to make are assumptions w/no real facts to back them up with.

flipside909

Why do you keep insisting on this premium? Despite the fact the premium is $1k or more, you will benefit from that savings in the long run. Sure it's not going to be evident on the first month, but after 12 months or more, you've about saved that much or more in gasoline consumption for the year.

Gojirra99

To me, the V8 like performance of the RX400H over the RX330 ALONE already justify the actual $4-5K premium( remember the $11k premium is because it's loaded) . . . the better gas mileage is a bonus

xioix

i just priced the cars equally or close to it and the rx330 awd is 46k, the rx400h is 50k

what you are forgetting is that the 400h is alot faster than the 330, if you see this as a supercharged engine instead of a hybrid, or do you think added performance is not needed?