Mercedes may drop quality survey goal
05-08-05, 06:53 PM
#31
Every crash test I've ever seen puts Lexus/Toyota right at the top. That's why I question MB/Volvo's indirect claims of "safest" - although I think recently, they have backed away from those claims it appears.
I've never seen a test where Lexus/Toyota was rated under MB/Volvo - but the myth exists among owners of those vehicles - perhaps because although it is false, it's something for them to hang their hats on for comfort whilst sitting at the repair shop/dealership.
I've never seen a test where Lexus/Toyota was rated under MB/Volvo - but the myth exists among owners of those vehicles - perhaps because although it is false, it's something for them to hang their hats on for comfort whilst sitting at the repair shop/dealership.
05-08-05, 07:24 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Gekko
And factor in the probability of electronics failures of European cars vs. Japanese cars. I want to be sure that my AIR BAGS deploy in a crash!
I wonder what he drives now
05-08-05, 09:06 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Gekko
Every crash test I've ever seen puts Lexus/Toyota right at the top. That's why I question MB/Volvo's indirect claims of "safest" - although I think recently, they have backed away from those claims it appears.
I've never seen a test where Lexus/Toyota was rated under MB/Volvo - but the myth exists among owners of those vehicles - perhaps because although it is false, it's something for them to hang their hats on for comfort whilst sitting at the repair shop/dealership.
I've never seen a test where Lexus/Toyota was rated under MB/Volvo - but the myth exists among owners of those vehicles - perhaps because although it is false, it's something for them to hang their hats on for comfort whilst sitting at the repair shop/dealership.
Oh, I should mention that rollover for the 4wd version of the ES got 4 stars, while the 2wd version was not tested. Hmm... since when did the ES come in AWD?
05-08-05, 09:11 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Famous last words.
Don't count your chickens
before they are hatched.
I agree that, except for safety issues, Lexus TODAY makes a far better car, quality-wise, than M-B, but what were we hearing so much of 15 years ago?.......EXACTLY the SAME thing in REVERSE..................."Lexus will never make it because Mercedes won't let them."
Some of you guys here at CL may not be old enough to remember that, but boy, I sure do...."the Germans are going to teach those Japanese wanna-bes a thing or two." And we all know what happened.
And, last, remember that Hyundai and Kia miraculously went from some of the worst cars in the industry to some of the best in the space of just a few years......turnarounds DO happen even for the worst of compaines.
Don't count your chickens
before they are hatched.I agree that, except for safety issues, Lexus TODAY makes a far better car, quality-wise, than M-B, but what were we hearing so much of 15 years ago?.......EXACTLY the SAME thing in REVERSE..................."Lexus will never make it because Mercedes won't let them."
Some of you guys here at CL may not be old enough to remember that, but boy, I sure do...."the Germans are going to teach those Japanese wanna-bes a thing or two." And we all know what happened.
And, last, remember that Hyundai and Kia miraculously went from some of the worst cars in the industry to some of the best in the space of just a few years......turnarounds DO happen even for the worst of compaines.
True, other companies, especially the Koreans can go up, but Toyota is very serious about continuous improvement. Case in point, Lexus has been at the top of reliability for years now, yet Lexus continues to get better and better.
Compare the gen 3 Gs, to the Gen 2 for example. The panel gaps are much tigher, almost non existant, the interior has a higher quality feel and higher quality materials. I would say that in terms of panel gaps and interior quality, the gen 3 GS matches the current LS, if not exceeds it with the panel gaps. Imagine what the next LS will be like
. When I sat in the GS at the autoshow, I examined the panel gaps in detail, and with all the complex curves of the front dash and console, virtually everything fit near perfectly, and sliding your hand over the gaps ... it felt like one smooth surface. A lot of owners seem to say the new GS is much more quiet than the Gen 2. The Gen 2, being already a world class sports sedan, has been improved in almost every way. The car is seemingly very simple and functional, even though it is extremely complex with all of it's electronic systems.
Plus, I remember hearing that Lexus had a goal to reduce their JD Power survey down to 50!
Seeing as how Lexus is moving upmarket, and how the new IS production is moving to Tahara, Lexus is serious about improving even further. I predict that they may even expand Tahara and build the new ES there.
At least for the forseeable future, Lexus will simply continue to improve in every way possible.
05-09-05, 03:10 AM
#36
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MB can only rely on its prestigious image for a finite amount of time. I am really disappointed in their lack of attention to their product. It seems as though they just want to ignore their problems...literally just sweeping them under the rug and forgetting about it.
An image is just an image. Their image was built on countless years and peoples efforts and now, it's as though they're saying they're giving up... What sort of image does the new Daimler-Chrysler management want to build for the company? What sort of message do they want to send out to their patrons? The old image of MB being a solid, "prestigious", reliable car can fade amidst all the current criticisms. They have to remember that they are a BUSINESS. In order to keep the successes that they have, they have to strive to keep that success. Apparrently, they are in denial that there is a problem. Pretty soon, if the ship is not turned around, they will have run into a huge iceberg that will sink the MB ship and all its prestige into oblivion.
it's like a story of a wealthy family... the parents gave the kids the business. Kids ride the success built by the parents. Problems happen. Kids too lazy to do anything about it. Deny that there is a problem. stuff falls apart and the business has to be sold or dismantled because of shoddy management.
enuf ranting for one night.
An image is just an image. Their image was built on countless years and peoples efforts and now, it's as though they're saying they're giving up... What sort of image does the new Daimler-Chrysler management want to build for the company? What sort of message do they want to send out to their patrons? The old image of MB being a solid, "prestigious", reliable car can fade amidst all the current criticisms. They have to remember that they are a BUSINESS. In order to keep the successes that they have, they have to strive to keep that success. Apparrently, they are in denial that there is a problem. Pretty soon, if the ship is not turned around, they will have run into a huge iceberg that will sink the MB ship and all its prestige into oblivion.
it's like a story of a wealthy family... the parents gave the kids the business. Kids ride the success built by the parents. Problems happen. Kids too lazy to do anything about it. Deny that there is a problem. stuff falls apart and the business has to be sold or dismantled because of shoddy management.
enuf ranting for one night.
05-09-05, 03:35 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Gekko
Every crash test I've ever seen puts Lexus/Toyota right at the top. That's why I question MB/Volvo's indirect claims of "safest" - although I think recently, they have backed away from those claims it appears.
I've never seen a test where Lexus/Toyota was rated under MB/Volvo - but the myth exists among owners of those vehicles - perhaps because although it is false, it's something for them to hang their hats on for comfort whilst sitting at the repair shop/dealership.
I've never seen a test where Lexus/Toyota was rated under MB/Volvo - but the myth exists among owners of those vehicles - perhaps because although it is false, it's something for them to hang their hats on for comfort whilst sitting at the repair shop/dealership.
In lower-speed impacts, Toyota products are some of the safest...witness the extremely high rating Consumer Reports gives the Lexus IS300 in the "Safety" section of their new-car book.
However, at high speeds, it is hard to beat the tank-like bank-vault structure of the Mercedes-Benz frame and the crush spaces at each end of the car to absorb impacts. Trevor-Howard-Jones survived the 100-MPH impact of an S-Class in a Paris tunnel carrying Lady Diana......and she and her Egyptian boyfriend would probably also have survived if they had buckled up.
In fact, fatal accidents with M-B products are uncommon enough that when they DO happen, a blue-coated team of M-B engineers is sent to EVERY crash site...........anywhere in the world that one is reported............to examine the wreckage of the car and its occupants, record their findings, and take those findings back to Stuttgart with them to recommend safety improvements in future M-B products.
05-09-05, 07:20 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
In lower-speed impacts, Toyota products are some of the safest...witness the extremely high rating Consumer Reports gives the Lexus IS300 in the "Safety" section of their new-car book.
However, at high speeds, it is hard to beat the tank-like bank-vault structure of the Mercedes-Benz frame and the crush spaces at each end of the car to absorb impacts. Trevor-Howard-Jones survived the 100-MPH impact of an S-Class in a Paris tunnel carrying Lady Diana......and she and her Egyptian boyfriend would probably also have survived if they had buckled up.
In fact, fatal accidents with M-B products are uncommon enough that when they DO happen, a blue-coated team of M-B engineers is sent to EVERY crash site...........anywhere in the world that one is reported............to examine the wreckage of the car and its occupants, record their findings, and take those findings back to Stuttgart with them to recommend safety improvements in future M-B products.
However, at high speeds, it is hard to beat the tank-like bank-vault structure of the Mercedes-Benz frame and the crush spaces at each end of the car to absorb impacts. Trevor-Howard-Jones survived the 100-MPH impact of an S-Class in a Paris tunnel carrying Lady Diana......and she and her Egyptian boyfriend would probably also have survived if they had buckled up.
In fact, fatal accidents with M-B products are uncommon enough that when they DO happen, a blue-coated team of M-B engineers is sent to EVERY crash site...........anywhere in the world that one is reported............to examine the wreckage of the car and its occupants, record their findings, and take those findings back to Stuttgart with them to recommend safety improvements in future M-B products.
I heard that they spent a long, long time trying to extract her and Dodi Fayed (sp?) because the steel was so strong that even the "jaws of life" was virtually helpless.
05-09-05, 08:22 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Incendiary
What'd they conclude after the Princess Di crash? That it's safer to buckle up than to not?
I heard that they spent a long, long time trying to extract her and Dodi Fayed (sp?) because the steel was so strong that even the "jaws of life" was virtually helpless.
I heard that they spent a long, long time trying to extract her and Dodi Fayed (sp?) because the steel was so strong that even the "jaws of life" was virtually helpless.
This just happens to be M-B's policy. They take the safety of their cars so seriously that whenever possible, factory engineers examine every fatal M-B accident, determine what caused the fatality, how the car held up, and recommend improvements.
They showed up not long ago at a fatal crash involving an E-class, I believe, right in our area here on that sharp Beltway turn at the 270 exit.
Now, obviously, that is not always possible...especially if there is a major accident that is investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board or other Government safety agency. Then, of course, the Government investigation takes priority. But in the Paris crash that killed Diana and her boyfriend, if my memory is right, both M-B and the French government investigated that one.
05-09-05, 08:47 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Well...of course. We've known the benefits of seat-belts for 50 years. Automakers have been installing them for some 40 years...starting in 1966.
This just happens to be M-B's policy. They take the safety of their cars so seriously that whenever possible, factory engineers examine every fatal M-B accident, determine what caused the fatality, how the car held up, and recommend improvements.
They showed up not long ago at a fatal crash involving an E-class, I believe, right in our area here on that sharp Beltway turn at the 270 exit.
Now, obviously, that is not always possible...especially if there is a major accident that is investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board or other Government safety agency. Then, of course, the Government investigation takes priority. But in the Paris crash that killed Diana and her boyfriend, if my memory is right, both M-B and the French government investigated that one.
This just happens to be M-B's policy. They take the safety of their cars so seriously that whenever possible, factory engineers examine every fatal M-B accident, determine what caused the fatality, how the car held up, and recommend improvements.
They showed up not long ago at a fatal crash involving an E-class, I believe, right in our area here on that sharp Beltway turn at the 270 exit.
Now, obviously, that is not always possible...especially if there is a major accident that is investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board or other Government safety agency. Then, of course, the Government investigation takes priority. But in the Paris crash that killed Diana and her boyfriend, if my memory is right, both M-B and the French government investigated that one.
05-09-05, 04:00 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by texan629
Safest Cars of 2005
Vehicles that can save.
Small Cars:
Chevy Cobalt (base price $13,625 ): The successor to the Cavalier as Chevy's entry-level compact can be equipped with side-curtain air bags -- and prelimary data indicates this will score vastly better than its predecessor in government and IIHS crash testing. It can be equipped with a 205-hp supercharged engine in the sport-themed Cobalt SS
Toyota Corolla (base price $13,780): One of the most popular small cars ever built, the Corolla is also built to take a hit -- with the latest "multi-stage" air bags that adjust the force of their deployment based on the severity of the crash. Corollas can also be equipped with electronic stability control -- a very unusual feature in this price range. The Corolla earned the best-possible 5 Star rating in government crash testing.
Vehicles that can save.
Small Cars:
Chevy Cobalt (base price $13,625 ): The successor to the Cavalier as Chevy's entry-level compact can be equipped with side-curtain air bags -- and prelimary data indicates this will score vastly better than its predecessor in government and IIHS crash testing. It can be equipped with a 205-hp supercharged engine in the sport-themed Cobalt SS
Toyota Corolla (base price $13,780): One of the most popular small cars ever built, the Corolla is also built to take a hit -- with the latest "multi-stage" air bags that adjust the force of their deployment based on the severity of the crash. Corollas can also be equipped with electronic stability control -- a very unusual feature in this price range. The Corolla earned the best-possible 5 Star rating in government crash testing.
Some tests have the VW New Beetle doing better than either the Corolla or Civic, primarily because of the huge dashboard and the roughly three feet of space between the steering wheel and the faraway windshield. This provides for a LOT of crush space ahead of the driver and front passenger before either one hits the windshield.
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