Toyota Moves Up Camry Release, Plans Hybrid Model, Analysts Say
05-16-05, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
It's easy to see why Accord sales are down.....styling. True, everybody's tastes differ, and I don't mean to suggest otherwise, but even having said that, it's hard IMO to justify the present-generation Accord's styling. Honda has gotten away from the handsome and smart-looking Accords of the early 1990's and gone to these ugly triangular sweep-back headlights, frumpy-looking rear decks, and tech-look interiors. Apparantly it has turned off others too...not just me.
The Camry has also adopted those ugly sweep-back headlights but they are not as outlandish as the ES330's, and the Camry has managed to hold on to its customer base in spite of them.
The Camry's rear end is not as frumpy-looking as the Accord's either.
The Camry has also adopted those ugly sweep-back headlights but they are not as outlandish as the ES330's, and the Camry has managed to hold on to its customer base in spite of them.
The Camry's rear end is not as frumpy-looking as the Accord's either.
What I would really like to know however is what % of Camry sales are to fleets? (I had read 10-12%) - however if this is increasing, there is a chance that is why Camry's sales are increasing. Just a theory.
05-16-05, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by XeroK00L
February 2006!! That means the ES350 is arriving then as well, just a few months after the new IS goes on sale.
The new Camry if following the tradition will definitely share the same 280hp 3.5L V6 that the Avalon and the ES350 have, which means the hybrid Camry, based on the same V6, will have more power than the 278hp 3.3L V6-based hybrid Highlander/RX400h but probably tuned lower than the GS450h for better fuel economy. And since the GS450h will have far more than 300hp and the Avalon has 280hp, I'd say that this hybrid Camry will have about 300hp if not a bit more.
But then again if the hybrid Camry does have 300hp then the issues naturally associated with high-powered FWD cars will need to be addresssed.
The new Camry if following the tradition will definitely share the same 280hp 3.5L V6 that the Avalon and the ES350 have, which means the hybrid Camry, based on the same V6, will have more power than the 278hp 3.3L V6-based hybrid Highlander/RX400h but probably tuned lower than the GS450h for better fuel economy. And since the GS450h will have far more than 300hp and the Avalon has 280hp, I'd say that this hybrid Camry will have about 300hp if not a bit more.
But then again if the hybrid Camry does have 300hp then the issues naturally associated with high-powered FWD cars will need to be addresssed.
There is no way in heck there is going to be a 300+ hp camry within the next 5 years, heck even 10 years.
If anything I see it using the 278 hp rx400h power plant as the most powerful setup possible( Thats still huge for camry levels and still a hard number to believe for a camry.). No point in making an entire drivetrain for just one model. And perhaps the 3.5 liter could be the highest non hybrid model offered. I even see the 2.4 liter + hybrid setup pushing around 200+ hp being an alternative option/hybrid possibility.
Camry has never been the one with the leading hp numbers in its class, its not typical of toyota.
It
05-16-05, 07:02 PM
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Accord sales are down mainly because of the strong emergence of the Altima since 2002, and to a less lesser extent the Sonata/Optima. The Sonata/Optima are taking away some of the bargain, value oriented buyers. The Altima takes away some of the Accord buyers who are looking for a little sport in their family sedan. The Altima is less likely to take away sales from the Camry, which has a much softer ride and mushier handling than either the Accord or Altima.
05-17-05, 05:51 AM
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Toyota to announce hybrid camry, will shift hybrid production to North America
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7882633/
Toyota seen announcing hybrid Camry
Report: Automaker to build fuel-efficient vehicle in KentuckyThe Associated Press
Updated: 8:10 a.m. ET May 17, 2005GEORGETOWN, Ky. - Toyota Motor Corp. planned a news conference Tuesday at its Kentucky auto plant, amid reports that the company plans to begin building a gasoline-electric hybrid version of the Camry here.
Citing unnamed company executives, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday that Toyota planned to shift production of its hybrids to North America, but planned only to discuss the Camry model on Tuesday.
Responding to the Wall Street Journal report, Toyota spokesman Paul Nolasco in Tokyo said Tuesday that shifting hybrid production entirely to North America wasn't "anywhere in the cards."
Georgetown plant spokesman Rick Hesterberg declined to comment on the reports. The Georgetown plant now assembles the Camry, Avalon and Solara models.
Besides the Camry hybrid, the company also is considering the possibility of producing the Prius hybrid or a hybrid version of the small Corolla sedan in North America, the newspaper reported.
Last week, a Japanese news agency reported that Toyota would produce a gasoline-electric hybrid based on its Camry passenger car in Kentucky. Officials at Toyota's North American headquarters could not confirm that report last week.
The Toyota plant in Georgetown opened in 1987 and is the company's largest American facility.
Gov. Ernie Fletcher left Saturday on a trade mission to Japan. On Monday, Fletcher was in Aichi, Japan, helping to launch "Kentucky Week" at the 2005 World Expo.
Fletcher's office said Monday night that Fletcher would participate in the news conference via satellite. The company scheduled simultaneous news conferences in Georgetown and Washington, D.C., as well as a Webcast.
Gene Strong, the state's economic development secretary, said last week the timing of Fletcher's trip could be helpful as Kentucky courts the Toyota hybrid.
It was Toyota's decision to build its Georgetown plant a generation ago that made Kentucky a boom state in the automobile assembly and supply business. Toyota President Fujio Cho ran the Georgetown plant for seven years after it opened.
Toyota seen announcing hybrid Camry
Report: Automaker to build fuel-efficient vehicle in KentuckyThe Associated Press
Updated: 8:10 a.m. ET May 17, 2005GEORGETOWN, Ky. - Toyota Motor Corp. planned a news conference Tuesday at its Kentucky auto plant, amid reports that the company plans to begin building a gasoline-electric hybrid version of the Camry here.
Citing unnamed company executives, the Wall Street Journal reported Monday that Toyota planned to shift production of its hybrids to North America, but planned only to discuss the Camry model on Tuesday.
Responding to the Wall Street Journal report, Toyota spokesman Paul Nolasco in Tokyo said Tuesday that shifting hybrid production entirely to North America wasn't "anywhere in the cards."
Georgetown plant spokesman Rick Hesterberg declined to comment on the reports. The Georgetown plant now assembles the Camry, Avalon and Solara models.
Besides the Camry hybrid, the company also is considering the possibility of producing the Prius hybrid or a hybrid version of the small Corolla sedan in North America, the newspaper reported.
Last week, a Japanese news agency reported that Toyota would produce a gasoline-electric hybrid based on its Camry passenger car in Kentucky. Officials at Toyota's North American headquarters could not confirm that report last week.
The Toyota plant in Georgetown opened in 1987 and is the company's largest American facility.
Gov. Ernie Fletcher left Saturday on a trade mission to Japan. On Monday, Fletcher was in Aichi, Japan, helping to launch "Kentucky Week" at the 2005 World Expo.
Fletcher's office said Monday night that Fletcher would participate in the news conference via satellite. The company scheduled simultaneous news conferences in Georgetown and Washington, D.C., as well as a Webcast.
Gene Strong, the state's economic development secretary, said last week the timing of Fletcher's trip could be helpful as Kentucky courts the Toyota hybrid.
It was Toyota's decision to build its Georgetown plant a generation ago that made Kentucky a boom state in the automobile assembly and supply business. Toyota President Fujio Cho ran the Georgetown plant for seven years after it opened.
05-17-05, 09:21 AM
#35
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PR: Toyota's First North American Hybrid Production Will be in Georgetown, Kentucky
Production of Camry Hybrid to Start in Late 2006
05/17/2005 Georgetown, KY
Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America (TMMNA) today announced the company's first North American gas-electric hybrid production will be at its Georgetown, Ky., plant – Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) – when production of a Camry hybrid begins in late 2006.
TMMK will have the capacity to build approximately 48,000 Camry hybrid vehicles per year. The addition of hybrid production to TMMK will include a $10 million investment in the plant.
TMMK was established in 1986 and is Toyota's largest plant in North America. It employs approximately 7,000 team members and currently builds the Camry, Avalon and Solara. The plant has the capacity to build 500,000 vehicles annually. Since its inception, TMMK has built nearly six million vehicles, and the plant's current investment is nearly $5.3 billion.
Toyota expects capacity and employment to stay the same at TMMK with the addition of the Camry hybrid. The production of these hybrid vehicles will take place on the plant's existing lines, and no new construction is planned.
"This is a proud day for the entire state of Kentucky," said Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher, who attended the news conference from Japan via satellite. "For nearly 20 years, Toyota has called Kentucky home. We provide the kind of favorable business climate that encourages companies like Toyota to continue to invest here."
"Once the decision was reached to make a hybrid version of our best-selling vehicle – the Camry – the Georgetown plant was the natural choice for Toyota's first North American hybrid production," added Gary Convis, president of TMMK and a managing officer of Toyota Motor Corporation. "Our team members' hard work and dedication over the last 20 years will ensure that the production of these cutting-edge vehicles in Kentucky will also be hugely successful."
"The continued success of Prius has demonstrated consumers' growing demand for hybrid vehicles," said Jim Press, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. executive vice president and COO and a managing officer of Toyota Motor Corporation. "Hybrid production in the U.S. will allow us to be even more responsive to the desires of our customers."
Specific vehicle details on the Camry hybrid will be released at a later date. The Camry hybrid joins a growing Toyota and Lexus hybrid lineup in the U.S., which currently includes the groundbreaking Toyota Prius and the Lexus RX 400h luxury hybrid sport utility vehicle (SUV), which reached dealerships in April. Next month, the Toyota Highlander Hybrid mid-size SUV will go on sale, and the 2007 Lexus GS 450h hybrid luxury sedan is targeted for sale in the spring of 2006.
By 2006, Toyota will have the annual capacity to build 1.66 million cars and trucks, 1.44 million engines, and 600,000 automatic transmissions in North America. The company's direct investment is nearly $16.6 billion, with annual purchasing of parts, materials, goods and services from North American suppliers totaling nearly $25 billion. Toyota's North American-produced vehicles include the Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Sienna, Solara, Sequoia, Tacoma, Tundra, and the Lexus RX330.
Credit: Toyota Motor Sales, USA
05/17/2005 Georgetown, KY
Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America (TMMNA) today announced the company's first North American gas-electric hybrid production will be at its Georgetown, Ky., plant – Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. (TMMK) – when production of a Camry hybrid begins in late 2006.
TMMK will have the capacity to build approximately 48,000 Camry hybrid vehicles per year. The addition of hybrid production to TMMK will include a $10 million investment in the plant.
TMMK was established in 1986 and is Toyota's largest plant in North America. It employs approximately 7,000 team members and currently builds the Camry, Avalon and Solara. The plant has the capacity to build 500,000 vehicles annually. Since its inception, TMMK has built nearly six million vehicles, and the plant's current investment is nearly $5.3 billion.
Toyota expects capacity and employment to stay the same at TMMK with the addition of the Camry hybrid. The production of these hybrid vehicles will take place on the plant's existing lines, and no new construction is planned.
"This is a proud day for the entire state of Kentucky," said Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher, who attended the news conference from Japan via satellite. "For nearly 20 years, Toyota has called Kentucky home. We provide the kind of favorable business climate that encourages companies like Toyota to continue to invest here."
"Once the decision was reached to make a hybrid version of our best-selling vehicle – the Camry – the Georgetown plant was the natural choice for Toyota's first North American hybrid production," added Gary Convis, president of TMMK and a managing officer of Toyota Motor Corporation. "Our team members' hard work and dedication over the last 20 years will ensure that the production of these cutting-edge vehicles in Kentucky will also be hugely successful."
"The continued success of Prius has demonstrated consumers' growing demand for hybrid vehicles," said Jim Press, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. executive vice president and COO and a managing officer of Toyota Motor Corporation. "Hybrid production in the U.S. will allow us to be even more responsive to the desires of our customers."
Specific vehicle details on the Camry hybrid will be released at a later date. The Camry hybrid joins a growing Toyota and Lexus hybrid lineup in the U.S., which currently includes the groundbreaking Toyota Prius and the Lexus RX 400h luxury hybrid sport utility vehicle (SUV), which reached dealerships in April. Next month, the Toyota Highlander Hybrid mid-size SUV will go on sale, and the 2007 Lexus GS 450h hybrid luxury sedan is targeted for sale in the spring of 2006.
By 2006, Toyota will have the annual capacity to build 1.66 million cars and trucks, 1.44 million engines, and 600,000 automatic transmissions in North America. The company's direct investment is nearly $16.6 billion, with annual purchasing of parts, materials, goods and services from North American suppliers totaling nearly $25 billion. Toyota's North American-produced vehicles include the Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Sienna, Solara, Sequoia, Tacoma, Tundra, and the Lexus RX330.
Credit: Toyota Motor Sales, USA
05-17-05, 09:25 AM
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05-17-05, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Inabj2
There is no way in heck there is going to be a 300+ hp camry within the next 5 years, heck even 10 years.
If anything I see it using the 278 hp rx400h power plant as the most powerful setup possible( Thats still huge for camry levels and still a hard number to believe for a camry.). No point in making an entire drivetrain for just one model. And perhaps the 3.5 liter could be the highest non hybrid model offered. I even see the 2.4 liter + hybrid setup pushing around 200+ hp being an alternative option/hybrid possibility.
Camry has never been the one with the leading hp numbers in its class, its not typical of toyota.
It
If anything I see it using the 278 hp rx400h power plant as the most powerful setup possible( Thats still huge for camry levels and still a hard number to believe for a camry.). No point in making an entire drivetrain for just one model. And perhaps the 3.5 liter could be the highest non hybrid model offered. I even see the 2.4 liter + hybrid setup pushing around 200+ hp being an alternative option/hybrid possibility.
Camry has never been the one with the leading hp numbers in its class, its not typical of toyota.
It
with class leading fuel economy, sharp new styling, and ridiculous power.Toyota has a history of shocking the industry, and surprising people.
Yes, Toyota is conservative, but Toyota has done many surprising and extreme moves, although in a conservative way. They go about doing things with a cautious conservative perspective, but that doesn't mean they are conservative period.
Don't be surprised to see the new Camry with up to 280HP, having the new Avalon's engine.
05-17-05, 09:45 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by XeroK00L
05-17-05, 09:52 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Official press release from THE SOURCE and 3rd party info maybe the same but it's not a repost.
05-17-05, 09:57 AM
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05-17-05, 01:10 PM
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I think manufacturer reps who surf forums do it mostly to entertain themselves. These reps are human afterall, being human, they can't keep away from all the **** talkin and flaming that we all love. Whatever is posted as facts on forums are already old news to manufacturer reps so they really don't have anything new to learn, but escaping the conservative and confine environment of the corporation they work for is a breath of fresh air and a treat.
Since most forum threads are pure speculations, here's my speculation on the new Camry hybrid. I think it will be used on the 4cyl model only. The base 4cyl will either get a 10hp increase with no increase in displacement or a slight increase in displacement to 2.5L to get a little more HP/Torque since new model will slightly be heavier.
The hybrid model will totally replace the 3.0 V6 altogether and the 3.5L will be reserved for the SE model. What good is a 3.0 if the 3.5 is already more efficient yet more powerful and doesn't take anymore space or weigh anymore? Unless direct injection can get the 3.0 to net 35mpg, otherwise it's just another engine that's no longer competitve for use in todays lineup. Getting rid of the 3.0 will make inventories simpler. But more importantly, it'll ULTIMATELY make more money. The new 3.5 will basically be Toyotas version of the Nissans VQ. IMO, 3.5L is the perfect displacement compramise, not too big, not too small. Makes enough HP/torque to be used in a ton of vehicle. A 3.0 just simply doesn't have the torque especially since todays vehicles keeps getting bigger and heavier. Only BMW can get away with giving the people less while charging more. Porsche, Merc, Lex, Infiniti, Caddilac and even Honda all have gone to larger displacement.
Majority of camry sales will still be the base 4cyl, those who want power and torque can pay the extra and move up to the hybrid model, not only will they get power, but way better fuel economy than even the 4cyl. This makes more sense IMO for people to want or justify paying extra for a hybrid, especially since camry buyers are more economically minded. Since TOYOTA owns exlusive rights to hybrid technology and sells more hybrid than anyone, they can afford to make hybrids no more expensive than upgrading from a regular 4cyl camry to a V6 model. Putting hybrids into a big seller like camry should only make it cheaper.
To me it doesn't make much sense to hybrid a V6 since having both cost way too much and adds too much weight. This is a camry not a lexus, pricing will still be on the top of the list for majority of buyers. Current top of the line V6 camries are already knocking on 30K, hybrid would only add more cost to this. So I can't see why people would want to pay more than 30K plus for a camry(it's still just a camry) when for less than that a much plusher and more luxurious Avalon with 280HP can be had. Just check out accord hybrid sales, it's not that good at all. For the price of a hybrid Accord, I'd jump up to a TL and get a faster and more luxurious vehicle with a better waranty. Non-luxury version of Hybrids will only make sense if people can afford it. Prius sells cuz it's cheap, comfortable, roomy and had no direct competition. Civic hybrid doesn't sell that well cuz regular Civic is already very good in fuel economy, plus it doesn't perform any better. The marketing folks need to get hybrids to make sense and justify it's cost.
Here's my specs for 2006 1/2 Camry :
- Base 4cyl with next gen VVTi = 175-180HP and equal amount of torque, gets 24/34mpg for auto and 25/35mpg for manual. Most likely manual won't even be offer. Nobody buys Camry with manual anyway. Toyota already made sure camry ain't fun to drive, so no reason for manual. With manual out of the way, it's MO MONEY in the bank!!
- Hybrid = 225hp/260ft lb total, gets 32city/37hwy. Performance will be similar to todays V6, but much more responsive for midrange passing and 0-30mph rush hour driving.
- SE = 280hp/270ft lb 22city/31hwy, same as Avalon. Have performance tuned suspension. Mazda 6 like in feel, since most Toyota usually have quicker and more accurate steering IMO than Mazda 6, it should be much more fun to drive than mazda 6. SE will compete directly with Maxima. SE and Hybrid camry will have same base price, SE will be marketed as performance, not economy.
Reason SE models can be priced the same as hybrid the is due to cost saved from using 3.5L in Avalon, IS350, GS350, ES350, Updated Siena/RX350, and maybe next gen Highlander.
Since most forum threads are pure speculations, here's my speculation on the new Camry hybrid. I think it will be used on the 4cyl model only. The base 4cyl will either get a 10hp increase with no increase in displacement or a slight increase in displacement to 2.5L to get a little more HP/Torque since new model will slightly be heavier.
The hybrid model will totally replace the 3.0 V6 altogether and the 3.5L will be reserved for the SE model. What good is a 3.0 if the 3.5 is already more efficient yet more powerful and doesn't take anymore space or weigh anymore? Unless direct injection can get the 3.0 to net 35mpg, otherwise it's just another engine that's no longer competitve for use in todays lineup. Getting rid of the 3.0 will make inventories simpler. But more importantly, it'll ULTIMATELY make more money. The new 3.5 will basically be Toyotas version of the Nissans VQ. IMO, 3.5L is the perfect displacement compramise, not too big, not too small. Makes enough HP/torque to be used in a ton of vehicle. A 3.0 just simply doesn't have the torque especially since todays vehicles keeps getting bigger and heavier. Only BMW can get away with giving the people less while charging more. Porsche, Merc, Lex, Infiniti, Caddilac and even Honda all have gone to larger displacement.
Majority of camry sales will still be the base 4cyl, those who want power and torque can pay the extra and move up to the hybrid model, not only will they get power, but way better fuel economy than even the 4cyl. This makes more sense IMO for people to want or justify paying extra for a hybrid, especially since camry buyers are more economically minded. Since TOYOTA owns exlusive rights to hybrid technology and sells more hybrid than anyone, they can afford to make hybrids no more expensive than upgrading from a regular 4cyl camry to a V6 model. Putting hybrids into a big seller like camry should only make it cheaper.
To me it doesn't make much sense to hybrid a V6 since having both cost way too much and adds too much weight. This is a camry not a lexus, pricing will still be on the top of the list for majority of buyers. Current top of the line V6 camries are already knocking on 30K, hybrid would only add more cost to this. So I can't see why people would want to pay more than 30K plus for a camry(it's still just a camry) when for less than that a much plusher and more luxurious Avalon with 280HP can be had. Just check out accord hybrid sales, it's not that good at all. For the price of a hybrid Accord, I'd jump up to a TL and get a faster and more luxurious vehicle with a better waranty. Non-luxury version of Hybrids will only make sense if people can afford it. Prius sells cuz it's cheap, comfortable, roomy and had no direct competition. Civic hybrid doesn't sell that well cuz regular Civic is already very good in fuel economy, plus it doesn't perform any better. The marketing folks need to get hybrids to make sense and justify it's cost.
Here's my specs for 2006 1/2 Camry :
- Base 4cyl with next gen VVTi = 175-180HP and equal amount of torque, gets 24/34mpg for auto and 25/35mpg for manual. Most likely manual won't even be offer. Nobody buys Camry with manual anyway. Toyota already made sure camry ain't fun to drive, so no reason for manual. With manual out of the way, it's MO MONEY in the bank!!
- Hybrid = 225hp/260ft lb total, gets 32city/37hwy. Performance will be similar to todays V6, but much more responsive for midrange passing and 0-30mph rush hour driving.
- SE = 280hp/270ft lb 22city/31hwy, same as Avalon. Have performance tuned suspension. Mazda 6 like in feel, since most Toyota usually have quicker and more accurate steering IMO than Mazda 6, it should be much more fun to drive than mazda 6. SE will compete directly with Maxima. SE and Hybrid camry will have same base price, SE will be marketed as performance, not economy.
Reason SE models can be priced the same as hybrid the is due to cost saved from using 3.5L in Avalon, IS350, GS350, ES350, Updated Siena/RX350, and maybe next gen Highlander.
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