Lexus tops quality survey again! 2005 JD Power Toyota GM dominate!
05-19-05, 08:56 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I don't put much stock in J.D. Power ratings...for many reasons, which I have outlined before and won't rehash here. In general Consumer Reports is a much better index of auto reliability and quality.
Lexus on top? Fine....that agrees with most other surveys (and Consumer Reports too). I'll agree with that.
But there are just too many OTHER questionable rankings here. Jag in second place? I don't buy that....the X and S-Class in particular have had many problems. Mercedes ahead of Toyota? Come on.
Mazda, oneof the better Japanese brands for quality, next to last? Scion...a Toyota division, two-thirds of the way down? Kia, one of the most improved brands in the buisness, even lower? And Subaru, which generally builds superb cars, just one point higher? Jeep right in the middle? Honda..a gold mine in reliability...12 points down? Acura even lower? (Yes, I know about the TL transmissions but still the rest of the car is like a Swiss watch) BMW in third place with the notorious electrical problems?
Now...I know this list is only for INITIAL quality, not long-term. Still, it is difficult for me to believe a lot of it. And I am not just basing that statement on personal opinions....but against many other sources as well. Consumer Reports in particular, if you look at their rankings, comes up with a far different picture than this.
Lexus on top? Fine....that agrees with most other surveys (and Consumer Reports too). I'll agree with that.
But there are just too many OTHER questionable rankings here. Jag in second place? I don't buy that....the X and S-Class in particular have had many problems. Mercedes ahead of Toyota? Come on.
Mazda, oneof the better Japanese brands for quality, next to last? Scion...a Toyota division, two-thirds of the way down? Kia, one of the most improved brands in the buisness, even lower? And Subaru, which generally builds superb cars, just one point higher? Jeep right in the middle? Honda..a gold mine in reliability...12 points down? Acura even lower? (Yes, I know about the TL transmissions but still the rest of the car is like a Swiss watch) BMW in third place with the notorious electrical problems?Now...I know this list is only for INITIAL quality, not long-term. Still, it is difficult for me to believe a lot of it. And I am not just basing that statement on personal opinions....but against many other sources as well. Consumer Reports in particular, if you look at their rankings, comes up with a far different picture than this.
Something else to consider: 135 attributes are tested, and each one does not seem to be specifically and explicitly defined. I can almost guarantee that there are some subjective measures in the survey.
Plus, honestly how many cars have problems in the first 90 days? This isn't a relevant and realistic survey. AT least having a quality survey that looks at 2 year old cars would be much more realistic and relative than this.
Speaking of which, I rarely hear about JD Power long term surveys, so what gives? Too many secrets and the truth too humiliating to some manufacturers? Is there some shady business involved in keeping hush hush on the long term survey?
EDIT: the IQS seems to be more about marketing, than actual car quality.
Sort of like how the Sonata claimed top spot from Camry as the most reliable US market sedan in Initial Quality.
But let's be realistic here. Why make a survey based on initial quality? What kind of useful results does initial quality give you? I don't see any reason in doing initial quality surveys, other than just a broad general check on new car quality, and mainly for marketing.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 05-19-05 at 09:00 PM.
05-19-05, 09:25 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
. . . Speaking of which, I rarely hear about JD Power long term surveys, so what gives? Too many secrets and the truth too humiliating to some manufacturers? Is there some shady business involved in keeping hush hush on the long term survey?
Here's their 2004 VDS results for 2001 models.
05-19-05, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AmethySC
JD POWER does have a Vehicle Dependibility Study (VDS) for 3 year old vehicles : LINK HERE
Here's their 2004 VDS results for 2001 models.
Here's their 2004 VDS results for 2001 models.
I would assume then that a list for 2002 models would come out quite soon. That will be interesting to see, how things change on that list.
05-20-05, 08:26 AM
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350Z Ranked TOP Premium Sports Car For 2005!
Z takes JD power's top honors in the premium sports car segment for 2005. 
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....&src=LP%20used
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....&src=LP%20used
Last edited by TXSTYLE; 05-20-05 at 08:31 AM.
05-20-05, 04:21 PM
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i think the key word in that survey is "initial". meaning "how many problems did the car have inthe first 90 days". i know the suspension flaws in that car were not noticeable til after a few thousand miles. thats just one example of problems on the Z. i like seeing the long term reliabilty indexes more.
also, i see that the porsche 911 was ranked third behind the Z. haha. ive already had electrical gremlins pop up. maybe i just have bad luck
also, i see that the porsche 911 was ranked third behind the Z. haha. ive already had electrical gremlins pop up. maybe i just have bad luck
05-21-05, 09:46 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by DrDrilZ
i think the key word in that survey is "initial". meaning "how many problems did the car have inthe first 90 days". i know the suspension flaws in that car were not noticeable til after a few thousand miles. thats just one example of problems on the Z. i like seeing the long term reliabilty indexes more.
also, i see that the porsche 911 was ranked third behind the Z. haha. ive already had electrical gremlins pop up. maybe i just have bad luck
also, i see that the porsche 911 was ranked third behind the Z. haha. ive already had electrical gremlins pop up. maybe i just have bad luck
Keep in mind... The suspension probs were on the 1st generation and early production models, like mine (vin # in the low 1,000!) 2005 models are not prone to this issue at all.
And aside from that on my 2003, which was promptly fixed by Nissan, my car continues to be solid and considerably quicker, and gets mad looks & props since the day I got it.
05-21-05, 02:35 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Last edited by XeroK00L; 05-21-05 at 09:30 PM.
05-21-05, 07:32 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by XeroK00L
Looks reasonable except that I don't think the TL deserves a mere two-star rating for its body & interior quality. It at least on par if not better than that of the 3 and the G35.
Totally unrelated, here is 2004's list to compare too.
05-22-05, 12:25 AM
#27
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peolpe bashing jdpower? they ask more than 62000 buyers their opinions...
also, that is the initial quality, not the 90 day one
i think that is their prediction of what to expect....
if you notice, their 90 day poll is different than the initial quality one...
intial might be predicted, or within first 30 days, which of course changes a poll greatly
lexus always comes out on top, except for that article i read where it said kia was rated number 1 by consumer reports...
also, that is the initial quality, not the 90 day one
i think that is their prediction of what to expect....
if you notice, their 90 day poll is different than the initial quality one...
intial might be predicted, or within first 30 days, which of course changes a poll greatly
lexus always comes out on top, except for that article i read where it said kia was rated number 1 by consumer reports...
05-22-05, 01:20 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by EGainer
peolpe bashing jdpower? they ask more than 62000 buyers their opinions...
also, that is the initial quality, not the 90 day one
i think that is their prediction of what to expect....
if you notice, their 90 day poll is different than the initial quality one...
intial might be predicted, or within first 30 days, which of course changes a poll greatly
lexus always comes out on top, except for that article i read where it said kia was rated number 1 by consumer reports...
also, that is the initial quality, not the 90 day one
i think that is their prediction of what to expect....
if you notice, their 90 day poll is different than the initial quality one...
intial might be predicted, or within first 30 days, which of course changes a poll greatly
lexus always comes out on top, except for that article i read where it said kia was rated number 1 by consumer reports...
05-22-05, 07:08 AM
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Plus, honestly how many cars have problems in the first 90 days? This isn't a relevant and realistic survey. AT least having a quality survey that looks at 2 year old cars would be much more realistic and relative than this.
My departed SC430 had many problems in the first 90 days. That's why I dumped it; plus they never were repaired by my incompetent Lexus dealer.