D-MAN63

Ya been hearing news about firestone again !! Now, people are saying that their "replacement" tires are bad too !!!! Firestone blames Ford for making their SUV so easy to tip over and Ford blames firestone and VICE VERSA !!.

Its funny, because Ford's latest SUV models advertises that new and redesigned "wider form" of the SUV line. That makes me wonder who really is at fault

I still see LOTS of Firestone "wilderness" brand on SUV's. IMO, those are deathtraps on the highway.

disc108

the funniest thing is the the replacements are said to be worse than the firestone's themselves!!!

could u imagine if this nightmare happened to lexus? "the turanza's that come on the GS3 will blow out and cause loss of control and u will most likely slam into something. also, our airbags are defective."

D-MAN63

I'll be the first one to say is..

if firestone DOES NOT go out of business in the near future, I'd give props to whoever is holding that company together cuz it does not look good at all for them.

Who would wanna buy their products now?

midknight

IMHO, it was the design flaw of the Explorer, not tires. Yes, the tires could have been made stronger, but the weight / design of that particular SUV, placed too much pressure on the tires.

once again, IMO, 2 cents

midknight

It's a matter of volume and supply. Firestone for the most part are standard equipment for Explorer's in the past. So of course with that kind of volume, comes more accidents associated with them. The more telling fact is that the same Firestone tires are NOT failing at the same rate on other SUV brands.

LeXusBoy

1SICKLEX,

Yah my parents are always talking about that. My mom would not let me get an SUV well at least the Expedition as a first car (truck as my dad said). She might let me take the RX though. :-)

Jazziz

I'm with midknight on this one. The percentage of rollovers after tire failure for the Explorer is off the charts compared to other SUVs. Firestone got caught up in this b/c they are the OEM tire for that vehicle. Firestone definitely created a tire with a flawed design, but IMO the suspension on the Explorer is to blame for the rollovers. When this issue first came to light last August, internal Ford documents unsealed from previous court cases showed that suspension testing for the Explorer showed it was as prone to rollover than the Bronco II it was replacing. I think when all is said and done, Ford is gonna get burned pretty badly for this and they what to take Firestone with them. The Explorer will have a rollover problem no matter which brand of tire fails on it.

Just my .06

mooretorque

Pardon the pun, but the jury is still out on the actual cause of the rollover. In general, it is difficult to roll a vehicle without both significant sideways motion AND something to trip the car, such as a curb. Couple of months ago, Car & Driver published an article in which they had obtained an Exploder from a used car dealer (to insure one with poor maintainence in hopes of approximating worst-case conditions) and installed a radio-controlled solenoid-operated valve in one of the steel wheels.

Then, at various speeds up to 80 mph!! they deflated the tire (valve capable of evacuating tire in approx one second, simulating blowout)........in all cases, both front and rear, and at all speeds, their driver was able to maintain control without difficulty. Nor did this tired old Explorer even ATTEMPT to go lurching off much less roll.

I apologize for not posting the link to C&D website but I'm a little short of time this morning and don't have time to go over and find it. It does make interesting reading and their conclusion is that they basically don't have a clue why so many have rolled, esp since most of the Firestones didn't blow, but delaminated their tread (which makes a godawful noise but leaves you with an intact doughnut much longer than would a blowout).

No conclusion here from me, just more grist for the ClubLexus mill.

2Lexos

Well as far as needing something to help you rollover(i.e. flat tire, or curb) I saw a professional BMW driver flip a 325 on dry pavement while trying to show off the improved handling of the vehicle under hard braking. You can flip any car at anytime. SUV are just at greater risk due to their higher center of gravity. I see Jeep's flipped over here in Chicago all the time. Where are the headlines?

D-MAN63

Since we are talking about rollovers, you hear on the news that the 2001 Montero Sport Limited was classified as "unsafe" to drive by I think either Car and Driver or someone else. They did a test and I saw it, the dam SUV would of DEFINATELY tipped over at 37 mph if it wasn't for some safety protocols at the sides.

I am curious, how does the Rx300 and the LX470 handle on this topic? Since I NEVER heard of any problems with the lex, it must be fine !

Francis K

I saw the Exploder thing on TV, it was interesting.


All in all, if you consider all the evidence and testimony, I would have to say it's the Explorer and not Firestone. Seeing how the same tires are used on Rangers and you can find 357975983754375 Rangers on the road and this problem hasn't been publicized on them. It's amazing how that one agency (forgot what it is called) is still allowing Ford to sell these deathtraps, can't they at least do somthing about it first? What do you think they would do if they found out a Toyota/Lexus vehicle had that problem I bet they would be banned from being sold in the US pretty quick. God, makes you wonder what Ford is pulling to be able to do it, they're basically just killing people and making money from it, it's inevitable to say that there will be more casualties due to Exploders, isn't it, even if it's one.

Kaban

Here is the fact I known so far:

Firestone...
they have a reputation of making low quality tire 10 years ago, and they almost went bankrupt over it. So, once a thief always a.....

FOrd...

We all know that FOrd only hire the brightest and the Best of the Best engineers to design their cars. We all know that they spent billions on their R&D before selling us their cars right? I mean take a look at the Pinto. (70's car?)

Granted, I wasn't alive to witness it's legendary reputation. But from what I gathered, their Best-of the- Best engineers designed their fuel tank in the Pinto outside the cars main steel cage; for obvious safety reasons; and right behind the rear bumper.

They also attached the rear bumper with long 8" screws parallel to the fuel tank. Again for obvious safey reasons. So when you get into a minor rear end collision, as low as 5mph, the screw will act like a Drill and drive itself into the gas tank. Sometimes causing a spark in the process and BOOM! Instant fireworks.

I have heard FOrd was blaming the oil companies for making gasline so explosive causing it's cars to explode and people to die. I mean why make gasoline flammable so explosive right?? FOrd was the smart company with the Best of the Best engineers...

40 years later...nothing has changed.

D-MAN63

Yes 1sick, i read it ! Good points made !


Also another thing, I see LOTS of fords STILL with Firestone tires !! I doubt that the owners didn't hear whats been happening the last couple of years. So my question is

WHY DON'T THESE OWNERS GET NEW TIRES?!? They hear how ppl are dying, yet they neglect/ignoring on getting new tires. If I was one of the owners and I keep hearing reports I would immediately change my tires or I would be putting everyone , including family members lives at risk.

Johnny Mo

I have a few things I want to add to this, personally I did not care for the Firestones when I had them on my Explorer. I think there are a few preoblems and also believe that both are at fault.

1) the original ATX and wilderness tires are "P" tires (ie. P235/75R 15), which means they are meant for passenger cars. In speaking to some people at Ford a long time ago (5+years), there were some TSB's that came out suggesting that at tire replacement time to upgrade to "LT" light truck tires. The Explorer was apparently too heavy for the P type tires. Yes that was the spec from Ford, but the tire engineers at Firestone should have said it won't work - BOTH equally at fault.

2)The C&D article/video..tread separation and tire failure/deflating are NOT the same thing. Tread separtation will most likely occur when you are in a turn (logically if you are going straight the tread may separate but is not as inclined to slip out from under the vehicle) The tread will most likely cause your tire to now become a "dunking donut" (you know the donuts with the donut handle attached) as the tire rotates at 60-70 mph it will cause the vehicle to jump about 8 inches at every tire rotation (which at 70 mph is alot) this will make you lose control I don't care if you are a professional race car driver you will lose control. THe issue is what casues the tread separation.

3)Some people are blaming the manufacturing plant others the tire pressure recommended by Ford, personally I did not agree with the recommended tire pressures and up'd mine to 32psi from the recommended 26 (now changed officially by Ford to 30). Still others blame it on the lack of a nylon cap ply over the steel belts. I don't know, but my Pirelli's have the cap, they are also "S" speed rated, so I don't think its a fair comparison.

4) Billy Tauzin made some comments that were PURE speculation, kind of a what if the tires Ford is replacing the Firestone's with are as bad or worse, there was no field data proof on an Explorer to determine that, but the press got wind of it and took it completely out of context. (I watched all of this crap on C-SPAN)

I think at the end of the day we'll see some combination of blame, but I think Ford will be okay , they have enough diversity, as the tires are only a component of their product vs. Firestone the tires are their product they will have trouble recovering. As far as people getting an inferior product in Ford - every manufacturer has their issues and "internal" memos that go around that are top secret and the "if this ever gets out we are ruined" type stuff. I think Ford learned its lesson from the PINTO disasters, and that's why they reacted the way they did, tires are failing--recall 'em and get them replacements fast. Again I am not saying the replacements are better or worse, but it becomes more an issue of marketing and perception. Ford made themselves look like the good guys, even though their choice of replacement tires may be incorrect-only the test data will tell us for sure.

Oh yeah if anyone did watch CSPAN - good God some of those Representatives of the House are DENSE!

LeXusBoy

You probably still see them because Ford or Firestone (dont know which one) said it is only certain tires. My mom's friend has an Explorer and they have Firestones. I asked them why and they said theirs were not affected. Also they took them to the Ford Dealer to be tested.