The MK IV Supra was THE TRUTH!!!
05-26-05, 12:48 AM
#17
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Actually the 13BREW motor is not as unreliable as everyone makes them out to be. Fear of the unknown perhaps 
On a well maintained car, they are seeing similar mileage as conventional engines (135k). For a very special low displacement engine, with that much power output, it's reliability is commendable.
Rotary also makes good torque. You're mistaking it for Honda engines. Torque vs Horsepower is another can of worms. Keep the torque, i'll take the hp.
Most cases of rotary death are usually a direct result of lazy owners who were careless on oil changes. Bottom line is overall performance-- a pure sports car isn't built to waste mileage on being driven to and from work, or to the grocery store. Reliability is a bit irrelevant on a pure sports car.
I'll just stop right here since i'm heavily biased towards rotaries and anti MKIV Supra-- it's one of the only cars that ever consistently gave me trouble on the highway in my FD
On a well maintained car, they are seeing similar mileage as conventional engines (135k). For a very special low displacement engine, with that much power output, it's reliability is commendable. Rotary also makes good torque. You're mistaking it for Honda engines. Torque vs Horsepower is another can of worms. Keep the torque, i'll take the hp.
Most cases of rotary death are usually a direct result of lazy owners who were careless on oil changes. Bottom line is overall performance-- a pure sports car isn't built to waste mileage on being driven to and from work, or to the grocery store. Reliability is a bit irrelevant on a pure sports car.
I'll just stop right here since i'm heavily biased towards rotaries and anti MKIV Supra-- it's one of the only cars that ever consistently gave me trouble on the highway in my FD
05-26-05, 07:52 AM
#18
Originally Posted by MikeFD3S
I'll just stop right here since i'm heavily biased towards rotaries and anti MKIV Supra-- it's one of the only cars that ever consistently gave me trouble on the highway in my FD
My uncle had a non-turbo FC at over 200K and never had to replace the head gasket (that's the problem you guys are talking about right?) He's a mechanic =P He ended up selling it for $1k... I should have bought it... and getting a Tundra
05-26-05, 03:40 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by MikeFD3S
Rotary also makes good torque. You're mistaking it for Honda engines. Torque vs Horsepower is another can of worms. Keep the torque, i'll take the hp.
that seems very honda like
05-26-05, 04:53 PM
#20
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by xioix
The RENESIS engine, with 238 hp at 8,500 rpm and 159 lb-ft of torque at 5,500 rpm
that seems very honda like
that seems very honda like
05-26-05, 04:55 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
The last RX-7 made its torque from having 2 turbos. NA rotary engines do not make much torque and must be wound out to be in the high powerband. It can be fun to many people but irritating to others. S2000 had the same problem which is why they used a little larger engine with better low down torque to appeal to more buyers. No sports car these days should be unreliable and only made to be driven for a little bit on the weekend. Even people who changed the oil on the last RX-7 still had engines blowing at 70-80 thousand miles. Don't get me wrong I considered buying the last RX-7 and found it to be a very good looking car inside and out with the bonus of being light weight and nimble but it was just too cramped inside and had serious reliability glitches with the engine. I wish they brought the 3 rotor Cosmo coupe over to the states. Hopefully if mazda decides to do another RX-7 it will be as good looking, perform as well, and not have the seal problem or other rotary glitches. Still have to say the Supra was a better all around car to me.
05-26-05, 06:19 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by xioix
The RENESIS engine, with 238 hp at 8,500 rpm and 159 lb-ft of torque at 5,500 rpm
that seems very honda like
that seems very honda like
05-27-05, 08:52 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by UDel
Car and Driver in the March 1993 issue got 0-60 in 4.6 sec for the Supra Turbo. Toyota put that quote in one of their magazine ads. I wish I had that article and I might contact them for a backissue. I ordered 2 back issues of Sports Car International that featured articles on MKIV Supras. One article was an long term test in the mountains with an automatic that the author was so impressed with how well it handled the snow, fuel mileage,looks, and performace he named it car of the year and the other one was a in depth review of a red 6 speed. Unfortunately the car overheated after a few runs and the best they could do was 0-60 in 5.3 and quarter mile in 13.58 at 106.9mph.
I ordered a book on the Toyota Supra called "Toyota Supra Performance Portfolio 1982-1998" which is a book that has a bunch of articles from magazines and journals on certain cars. It had some interesting write ups I had never seem. Most of the articles from U.S. publications seemed to like or love the Supra. Most of the articles from European publications critisized the car for being too heavy, large spoiler, okay looks, okay interior, not enough driver feel, not being up to Porsche, Ferrari, or BMW driver involvement etc.
The Supra is my favorite Japanese sports car along with the NSX and it was on my possiblilty list before I saw the outrageous prices people want for them. I do not know if they actually get anywhere near what they are asking but I find it hard to believe someone would pay 30-60 grand for 8+ year old Toyotas. 98 GS400 can be had for 14-18 grand and they were priced pretty similiar to the Supra Turbos and are luxury vehicles from a luxury brand. I think the main reason Supra Turbos go for so high is the easy tuning potentail of the very strong overbuilt engine that is legendary with the performance crowd. The Supra Turbo is also known for being a very reliable well built high performance coupe. They are also pretty rare and highly desireable especially with younger people. I don't know how much a Supra being in the Fast and Furious affected its resale as I found the one they used pretty ugly especially that paint job but many people and magazines said it made the used prices jump a few grand. 300zxtt, RX-7, 3000GT, and SVX all have certain weakness or are not very reliable where the Supra seems to have all around the most going for it.
Unfortunately many people saw the Supra as a very expensive Toyota and not able to command high prices like European brands or the Corvette with its rich history in the U.S. Mark IV Supra Turbos will always be very highly regarded among enthusiasts and may be Toyotas most significant car even though they did not make any money on it. The NSX is the only other recent Japanese car to retain most of its value and be so desireable like the Supra turbo which is a very significant accomplishment for a car company
I ordered a book on the Toyota Supra called "Toyota Supra Performance Portfolio 1982-1998" which is a book that has a bunch of articles from magazines and journals on certain cars. It had some interesting write ups I had never seem. Most of the articles from U.S. publications seemed to like or love the Supra. Most of the articles from European publications critisized the car for being too heavy, large spoiler, okay looks, okay interior, not enough driver feel, not being up to Porsche, Ferrari, or BMW driver involvement etc.
The Supra is my favorite Japanese sports car along with the NSX and it was on my possiblilty list before I saw the outrageous prices people want for them. I do not know if they actually get anywhere near what they are asking but I find it hard to believe someone would pay 30-60 grand for 8+ year old Toyotas. 98 GS400 can be had for 14-18 grand and they were priced pretty similiar to the Supra Turbos and are luxury vehicles from a luxury brand. I think the main reason Supra Turbos go for so high is the easy tuning potentail of the very strong overbuilt engine that is legendary with the performance crowd. The Supra Turbo is also known for being a very reliable well built high performance coupe. They are also pretty rare and highly desireable especially with younger people. I don't know how much a Supra being in the Fast and Furious affected its resale as I found the one they used pretty ugly especially that paint job but many people and magazines said it made the used prices jump a few grand. 300zxtt, RX-7, 3000GT, and SVX all have certain weakness or are not very reliable where the Supra seems to have all around the most going for it.
Unfortunately many people saw the Supra as a very expensive Toyota and not able to command high prices like European brands or the Corvette with its rich history in the U.S. Mark IV Supra Turbos will always be very highly regarded among enthusiasts and may be Toyotas most significant car even though they did not make any money on it. The NSX is the only other recent Japanese car to retain most of its value and be so desireable like the Supra turbo which is a very significant accomplishment for a car company
Its not just the cars were expensive, the economy as a whole sucked. It really hurt ALL sports cars. From cheap ones like the Mercury Capri to the BMW 840/850
05-29-05, 11:23 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
If I remember correctly, the red 4.6sec Supra was either a pre production test mule or a sample model Toyota provided Car and Driver with prior to its official release.
Car and Driver and other car magazines had consistently rated MK IV Supra Turbos at 5.0 or low 5s throughout the production period of the Supra. It's still very fast, but not quite as fast as the mid. 4 sec. beast many thought to be.
On the other hand, the ZR-1 had been turning out times that are faster than 5.1 sec. in many of the road tests. Car and Driver clocked a 94' ZR-1 from 0-60mph in 4.7 sec. and 13.1sec quarter mile.
The stock MK IV Supra Turbo, despite its wonderful performance and superb engineering, was more comparable to the LT-1 Vette in terms of performance.
Jon
Car and Driver and other car magazines had consistently rated MK IV Supra Turbos at 5.0 or low 5s throughout the production period of the Supra. It's still very fast, but not quite as fast as the mid. 4 sec. beast many thought to be.
On the other hand, the ZR-1 had been turning out times that are faster than 5.1 sec. in many of the road tests. Car and Driver clocked a 94' ZR-1 from 0-60mph in 4.7 sec. and 13.1sec quarter mile.
The stock MK IV Supra Turbo, despite its wonderful performance and superb engineering, was more comparable to the LT-1 Vette in terms of performance.
Jon
05-29-05, 12:34 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Celicamaro
Domestics liked to know if SupraTT is so good, why is it dead and C4 Vette sales have never been better. People say Supra was to expensive, yet many will spend upward of 30K for a used one with almost 100K on the clock.
last i checked both that particular vette and the supra werent sold anymore
dude, you're a hater in every sense of the word
Yup, people pay 30k for a used one in awesome condition because thats the market value of it; I'm sorry there's no corvette that holds its value like that... though I'm sure you'll respond with some half-assed statement again
You guys can complain about it being an 8 year old toyota or whatever as much as you want, the fact is, its still the best factory tuner GT car ever made... with boltons done right 500hp is easy enough to attain on the stock turbos. Don't forget the reliability of the car either... lots of factors merge to allow this car's value to appreciate over time.
The FD was prolly the best RX-7 ever made; in that its pretty easy to take the rotary engine out and drop in a GOOD engine that won't die.
The reasoning for turbocharged rotaries dying premature deaths is because its a rotary... yes some owners are lazy; but there are MANY that are not. I know, I used to argue that point it too... until I saw friend after friend's car die, not from misuse, but just because rotaries arent very good in durability when it comes to high horsepower applications.
Last edited by Bean; 05-29-05 at 12:42 PM.
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