Hybrids a bad bet money-wise (says Edmunds)
06-01-05, 09:26 PM
#17
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What you guys are forgetting, though, is that, while it s true that hybrids will improve in the years ahead, so will small diesels and diesel fuel...especially here in the U.S. And diesels, IMO, are already a better bet than hybrids because they offer comparable mileage, if not emissions, to hybrids with much less complexity and hardware. And new anti-emission diesel fuel and technologies.....trust me on this.....are on the way very shortly. The EPA has already mandated low-sulfur diesel fuel here starting next year.
06-02-05, 12:11 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Performance is a mixed bag because of the extra weight of batteries, motors, maybe more complex transmission, etc.
As far as 'panache, image, and prestige' - I don't think it's there yet, but they're certainly a talking point if you have one. But do people think you're cool if you have one, or just weird?
I guess we said the same thing.
Well the future will be, different from today, but I'm not interested in a hybrid yet. Too expensive, too complicated, too unrefined.
Yup - in 5-6 years they will be a lot better than today's ones.
That's amazing - and there's definitely a market, particularly in Lexus' demographic for a 'sensible' vehicle that's also luxurious and reliable.
As far as 'panache, image, and prestige' - I don't think it's there yet, but they're certainly a talking point if you have one. But do people think you're cool if you have one, or just weird?
I guess we said the same thing.
Well the future will be, different from today, but I'm not interested in a hybrid yet. Too expensive, too complicated, too unrefined.
Yup - in 5-6 years they will be a lot better than today's ones.
That's amazing - and there's definitely a market, particularly in Lexus' demographic for a 'sensible' vehicle that's also luxurious and reliable.
Bit, if I had the dough, I'd get the GS 450h in a heartbeat, even over any 460h (unless it has 400hp like I think)
Funny, this article was on CNN today as they were talking about this very Edmunds article.
06-02-05, 05:56 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
What you guys are forgetting, though, is that, while it s true that hybrids will improve in the years ahead, so will small diesels and diesel fuel...especially here in the U.S. And diesels, IMO, are already a better bet than hybrids because they offer comparable mileage, if not emissions, to hybrids with much less complexity and hardware. And new anti-emission diesel fuel and technologies.....trust me on this.....are on the way very shortly. The EPA has already mandated low-sulfur diesel fuel here starting next year.
06-02-05, 06:46 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by AmethySC
In the longer run , there will be no more diesels to burn ( & who knows how high diesel prices will go even in shorter terms) , supporting the advancement of hybrid technology that can work with fuel cells & other alternate sources is the way to go
I have written and posted in other threads about the possibility of a synthetic-oil industry...something IMO we should have done years ago when OPEC first started socking it to us.
06-02-05, 08:06 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by IVXX
Exactly! So instead of *****ing over $3,000 they should chill out and be happy that it's working. I highly doubt the people that buy $40,000 are actaully unhappy they paid a little extra to save gas, and this planet...
06-02-05, 08:14 AM
#22
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My biggiest concern over these Hybs is maintenance what is the cost when these complicated systems start to have issues, and how long would this sort of repair take. I don't think you can simply take one of these to your neigborhood mom and pop shop to save yourself from getting ripped by inflated dealer prices.
06-02-05, 08:26 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Bit, if I had the dough, I'd get the GS 450h in a heartbeat, even over any 460h (unless it has 400hp like I think) .
.
06-02-05, 10:00 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Why? Given how new all this technology is, another reason I wouldn't buy one is that I like to keep cars a long time and would not want to own a 10 or even 5 year old hybrid that was new at the time. Once warranty's over that thing could cost a FORTUNE to repair.
MY biggest apprehension with hybrids, though, has nothing to do with the warranty...or cost of repair. It is having the battery pack sit behind the rear seat directly on top of the fuel tank under the trunk panel. In a major rear-end impact, it is not out of the question that you could have sparks from damaged batteries come into contact with fuel leaking out of a ruptured gas tank.
...............Need I explain the result?
06-02-05, 10:05 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
The most significant long-term item on a gas-electric hybrid likely to wear out is the heavy and expensive nickel-hydride battery pack.....but they are warrantied for at least 8 years and 100,000 miles.
06-02-05, 12:20 PM
#26
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I would agree that some get these for environmental reasons, but my friend that bought one tells me he purchased it for economic reasons. Question, what happens to the batteries when they go bad, probably sit in a junkyard someplace or does someone know if they are recycleable? If not, maybe they aren't as environmentally friendly as one might think. And IMO, for hybrids to really make a difference on emission outputs a significantly larger percentage of the population will need to start driving them. At this point, with the few hybirds that are out there I doubt it is having any real impact environmentally. Not that it won't in the future, but as of now, the impact is minimal.
I also agree that there might be quite a few downsides to these vehicles that previous poster's have mentioned (maintenance/disposal of batteries, etc.), no track record regarding reliability and performance, potential danger in a rear end collission, etc.
Bit, that comment re: the Jenn-Aire grills was too funny 
I also agree that there might be quite a few downsides to these vehicles that previous poster's have mentioned (maintenance/disposal of batteries, etc.), no track record regarding reliability and performance, potential danger in a rear end collission, etc.
Bit, that comment re: the Jenn-Aire grills was too funny
06-02-05, 05:31 PM
#27
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White Tiger,
Toyota is very serious about their batteries being taken of carefully. Here is a link (thanks xioix)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_li...ml?id=20040623
James
Toyota is very serious about their batteries being taken of carefully. Here is a link (thanks xioix)
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_li...ml?id=20040623
Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?
Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.
Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.
06-02-05, 07:06 PM
#28
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Well here is my point. If we are going to bash the cost of hybrids and "they are not worth the money"., well lets question everything then.
B/C lets take our beloved Lexus GS for example. THe GS 430 has an almost $9,000 increase in price over a GS 300. It does come with more features, like a hybrid Lexus. Do you really need the V-8? Do we really need the V-8 cars over the V-6 counterparts? How many times will we race or go to the track? How many times will be pass someone in traffic? How many times do we really need that extra power?
Do we really need A S600 or s SL 65 when a S 500 or hell a SL 55 can do? Audi's S4 is more than capable for 99% of people, yet there is a RS4 nearly doubling the price with 80 more hp? Is it worth it.
Getting to an M3, when u get down to it, its based of a 3 series, a 325. Is a M3 worth twice the price?
Its easiter for people to "Calculate" the price/cost ratio of hybrids and we here seem to find any reason not to get cars that are lighter or smaller or more fuel efficent.
VIVA LA SUV!!
B/C lets take our beloved Lexus GS for example. THe GS 430 has an almost $9,000 increase in price over a GS 300. It does come with more features, like a hybrid Lexus. Do you really need the V-8? Do we really need the V-8 cars over the V-6 counterparts? How many times will we race or go to the track? How many times will be pass someone in traffic? How many times do we really need that extra power?
Do we really need A S600 or s SL 65 when a S 500 or hell a SL 55 can do? Audi's S4 is more than capable for 99% of people, yet there is a RS4 nearly doubling the price with 80 more hp? Is it worth it.
Getting to an M3, when u get down to it, its based of a 3 series, a 325. Is a M3 worth twice the price?
Its easiter for people to "Calculate" the price/cost ratio of hybrids and we here seem to find any reason not to get cars that are lighter or smaller or more fuel efficent.
VIVA LA SUV!!
06-07-05, 08:27 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
What you guys are forgetting, though, is that, while it s true that hybrids will improve in the years ahead, so will small diesels and diesel fuel...especially here in the U.S. And diesels, IMO, are already a better bet than hybrids because they offer comparable mileage, if not emissions, to hybrids with much less complexity and hardware. And new anti-emission diesel fuel and technologies.....trust me on this.....are on the way very shortly. The EPA has already mandated low-sulfur diesel fuel here starting next year.
06-07-05, 09:16 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Well here is my point. If we are going to bash the cost of hybrids and "they are not worth the money"., well lets question everything then.
B/C lets take our beloved Lexus GS for example. THe GS 430 has an almost $9,000 increase in price over a GS 300. It does come with more features, like a hybrid Lexus. Do you really need the V-8? Do we really need the V-8 cars over the V-6 counterparts? How many times will we race or go to the track? How many times will be pass someone in traffic? How many times do we really need that extra power?
Do we really need A S600 or s SL 65 when a S 500 or hell a SL 55 can do? Audi's S4 is more than capable for 99% of people, yet there is a RS4 nearly doubling the price with 80 more hp? Is it worth it.
Getting to an M3, when u get down to it, its based of a 3 series, a 325. Is a M3 worth twice the price?
Its easiter for people to "Calculate" the price/cost ratio of hybrids and we here seem to find any reason not to get cars that are lighter or smaller or more fuel efficent.
VIVA LA SUV!!
B/C lets take our beloved Lexus GS for example. THe GS 430 has an almost $9,000 increase in price over a GS 300. It does come with more features, like a hybrid Lexus. Do you really need the V-8? Do we really need the V-8 cars over the V-6 counterparts? How many times will we race or go to the track? How many times will be pass someone in traffic? How many times do we really need that extra power?
Do we really need A S600 or s SL 65 when a S 500 or hell a SL 55 can do? Audi's S4 is more than capable for 99% of people, yet there is a RS4 nearly doubling the price with 80 more hp? Is it worth it.
Getting to an M3, when u get down to it, its based of a 3 series, a 325. Is a M3 worth twice the price?
Its easiter for people to "Calculate" the price/cost ratio of hybrids and we here seem to find any reason not to get cars that are lighter or smaller or more fuel efficent.
VIVA LA SUV!!
If a hybrid floats your boat, go for it! You're right that a V8 is pretty useless if you're stuck in gridlock all the time which is why I was ready to sell my GS400 if I hadn't moved. While I'd be stupid to drive the GS at top speed on public roads, I at least get to enjoy the accleration and torque and handling now!Anyway, back on hybrids, it doesn't meet my criteria for needs or wants which is why I'm currently not interested, but I'm sure they will become MUCH more interesting in a few years.