mmarshall

Haven't seen one yet, at least in the American market, but it will prove interesting if feasible. A hybrid-diesel system...especially a non-turbocharged one.....would probably, in a small car, be good for at least 60-70 MPG real-world mileage, not just EPA estimates. The electronics would probably be a little different from a gas-electric hybrid.....diesels take a lot more battery power to start in cold weather than a gas engine.

Lil4X

Several interesting points made here. Today's hybrids would seem to make economic sense only in high-mileage urban use. On the highway the hybrid's economy largely disappears. As a conversation piece at the country club, or a "green" political statement, they are appealing - much as driving a Volvo or a Saab was thirty years ago. Real-world practicality may be another matter.

Resale value of a hybrid has not been tested, and won't be for several years. The value of a hybrid with 70K miles that is possibly facing an expensive battery exchange sometime within the next 30-50K may well decrease it's resale value well below a similar conventionally-powered vehicle. Combined with higher purchase price, this penalty may take some of the luster off hybrid ownership.

As the EPA low-sulfur requirement turns the US diesel market into a viable alternative fuel by making modern diesels available on our shores, newer renewable resources become practical. Biodiesel, with certain tax incentives, could be the fuel of our futures. Combined with hybrid technology, diesel power could make urban commuters and service vehicles economically viable for a larger segment of our population.

To properly evaluate the efficiency of alternative fuels, we must examine the entire process of recovery, refining, distribution, and storage of the product. There is a cost associated with changing states of energy. Here, the economics of conventional gasoline and diesel have a huge, possibly insurmountable advantage. Tinkering with chemical bonds is expensive and represents some level of hazard. It requires a certain amount of energy to refine gasoline from crude stock. That is the hidden "energy debt" of any fuel. To create 20 gallons of 87 octane gasoline, you may have to expend an additional two or three gallons of gasoline-equivalent energy in its manufacture.

Pure electric cars suffer from this "energy debt", in that the electrical power charging their batteries probably originates from a fossil-fuel plant, with all of the inefficiencies, distribution losses, and unrecoverable heat energy that process produces – just to get it to the vehicle. Add the fact that it takes far more energy to charge a battery than you can recover from it, and pure electric power starts looking like a poor investment.

Hydrogen fuel is even worse. To produce that hydrogen many proponents once proposed to electrolyze seawater. Sounds like free feedstock - until you realize the enormous amounts of electrical power required to produce that elemental hydrogen. Where does this electricity come from? A fossil fuel plant . . . inefficiency . . pollution . . . distribution loss . . etc. . .

There are many factors involved in moving motive power from its source to the wheels of your car. While some are technically fascinating - hybrids, alternative fuels, etc. - and some a little impractical for now - flywheels whirling in a vacuum chamber, fusion - it is well to consider the unique needs of automotive power. While power is most efficiently produced at constant levels, a car needs to be able to start, accelerate, stop, and idle. No fuel does that with great efficiency. Production of alternative fuels really amounts to relocating the energy source and accepting the inefficiency of translating from one state to another (ex: natural gas to electric to hydrogen).

Finally, transportation and storage represent a problem for most alternative fuels. We already have a massive electrical grid for distribution of power to our homes and factories, but the batteries required to power an electric car are massive and require slow recharging every eighty or one hundred miles. Hydrogen, or compressed gases of any kind represent a problem when designing a fuel tank capable of carrying sufficient energy to power an ordinary car more than a hundred miles or so. Liquefying gases at high pressure runs into that same "energy debt" issue again. Not only is energy required to produce the fuel, but more is required to compress it for distribution.

Good old gasoline still represents the cheapest and best way to compact a large number of BTU’s into a small space, carry them in relative safety, and turn them into energy quickly, on demand. In the end although we can make incremental savings in fuel costs, individual transport may finally just become a very expensive luxury. Enjoy it while you can.

WhiteTiger

Thanks James, glad to know that this was thought of on the front end. BTW, what's xioix?

Sick, It will be interesting to see where hybrids develop in the next 5-10 years. I think what they have done is a start, but like I said before, until more of the market buys and drives hybrids, the environmental impact is not significant. And Bit makes a good point re: needs and wants.

xioix

me i provided him the article a little way back