jrock65

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/110662.html

Model Edmunds.com True Market Value(R) Additional cost to
price plus ownership costs* own hybrid

Ford Escape Hybrid $50,521
Ford Escape XLT AWD $47,092 $3,429

Honda Accord Hybrid $49,972
Honda Accord EX V-6 $46,156 $3,816

Honda Civic Hybrid $36,666
Honda Civic LX $32,993 $3,672

Toyota Prius $37,893
Toyota Corolla LE $32,610 $5,283
Toyota Camry LE $37,974 -$81


Model Fuel Would Have to Or a Driver Would Have to
Cost ... Exceed Annual Mileage of ...

Ford Escape Hybrid
(vs. Ford Escape XLT AWD) $5.60 37,000

Honda Accord Hybrid
(vs. Honda Accord EX V-6) $9.20 60,000

Honda Civic Hybrid
(vs. Honda Civic LX) $9.60 63,000

Toyota Prius
(vs. Toyota Corolla) $10.10 66,500

Toyota Prius
(vs. Toyota Camry) $2.28 15,000

LexFather

They are not taking the performance benefits into account. In addtition, there is panache and image and prestige with owning a hybrid. People are TALKING about them and are truly intriuged, no matter if they like it, hate it or don't get it.

Hybrids are the future, gas can't last forever. The GS450h is truly intriguing and the 400h is a marvel of engineering.

Just 10 years ago, we were PLUGGING IN electric cars. Toyota and Honda have some incredible engineers figuring how to make Hybrids viable.

Hybrids will ONLY get better. And better. They will get better batteries, more fuel economy, better performance. We are just witnessing the first and now 2nd wave of hybrids. Look at the huge jump in tech from the 1st gen hybrids to todays.

Lexus sold more 50k RX 400hs in 2 weeks than Caddy and Infiniti sold SRXs and FXs ALL MONTH. Let us all think about that.....

WhiteTiger

Unfortunately, one of the main and most important selling reasons for the hybrid is its economy, which doesn't appear to be much economy at all. I doubt gas will hit $4.00 any time soon, let alone $10.10 in the Corolla comparison. Only the Prius vs the Camry appears to be in the ballpark and yet you have the Prius re-call to deal with. Also how many people actually drive 60,000 miles/year?

XeroK00L

This is not a good news since it's bad money-wise for the automakers as well, at least in the short-term.
The volume still needs to be pushed MUCH higher before the automakers can truly make money on hybrid cars.
But it's hard for the volume to go up significantly if it doesn't make sense money-wise for most people. It's kind of a chick-and-egg thing. People who buy hybrids for a green status, the top-of-the-line bragging right or performance advantages will remain a minority after all.

Luckily the hybrid movement is led by an automaker with a pocket deep enough to afford not making any or even losing money for years just to see if this will eventually turn out to be a viable business. We can only hope.

TRDFantasy

EIther way, hybrids are incredible for the amount of economy you get. A Prius for example is still a better value than buying say a Jetta TDI, because you get much more of an overall package with the Prius.

The economy is certainly there ... just that most people expect RIDICULOUS and unrealistic economy from these hybrids.

Most people don't realize how incredibly complex Toyota's hybrid systems are. The fact that they never need charging, and work almost seamlessly with the gas engine is amazing.

You need to give Toyota some time ... hybrids will definitely get better. I agree they are not fully practical, but they are close. The only thing you can't do with hybrids is serious off roading, that's about it.

The beauty is that hybrids can work with gas, diesel, or even hydrogen cars. They are not an alternative form of engines or propulsion, they simply are a new addition to engine technology, like VVT.

jet864

Here's how I see it:

Hybrids DO have a premium, but those who can afford them, especially the ones $50k and up are in the position where they CAN do something to really help the environment and cut down on emissions, even if it is just their car.

I've talked to several families who could afford a hybrid and they weren't sure if the extra few thousand dollars was worth it but I told them this: You can either give that $3,000 to the gas companies and leave us in this perpetual state of need for fossil fuels, or you could give the money to Toyota/Honda and allow them to reinvest in hybrid technology, and allow them to research further and approach the main goal of fuel celled cars.

If I could afford a hybrid I could because I would love to help fund the fuel cell project, which I promise you AT LEAST Toyota and Honda are working on, and I think GM just made a public commitment to as well by 2010.

James

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Performance is a mixed bag because of the extra weight of batteries, motors, maybe more complex transmission, etc.

As far as 'panache, image, and prestige' - I don't think it's there yet, but they're certainly a talking point if you have one. But do people think you're cool if you have one, or just weird?

I guess we said the same thing.

Well the future will be, different from today, but I'm not interested in a hybrid yet. Too expensive, too complicated, too unrefined.

Yup - in 5-6 years they will be a lot better than today's ones.

That's amazing - and there's definitely a market, particularly in Lexus' demographic for a 'sensible' vehicle that's also luxurious and reliable.

Gojirra99

The RX400h actually performs better than the RX330, & going to larger displacement gasoline engine to achieve the same performance gains also adds weight too, but with gas mileage deteriorating, instead of improving with the hybrid.

Having said that, I haven't driven a hybrid yet ,& is not 100 % sure about them yet, I'll probably wait a few years for them to get better & cheaper before I want one

jrock65

Does anyone know how long these rechargeable batteries will last? And how much it costs to get a new one?

BigVIPness

I thought themain point of a hybrid was not to save you money but to burn less gas and have less emissions. I thought the point was to lessen the amount of gas being burnt.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Sure, and they do that, especially effectively in city driving!

BigVIPness

Exactly! So instead of *****ing over $3,000 they should chill out and be happy that it's working. I highly doubt the people that buy $40,000 are actaully unhappy they paid a little extra to save gas, and this planet...

Xenthar

Thats a big question that needs answering. No one would really know as most of these cars are new on the market. It sucks for 1st time hybrid buyers to have to be the test dummies. I heard that the batteries in hybrids are really expensive. Correct me if im wrong.

Gojirra99

There has been some discussion about battery life in THIS THREAD

xioix

180k miles, dont know