Toyota chief fears GM, Ford demise
06-10-05, 12:21 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Inabj2
I hate to nitpick but actually Wal-mart is the worlds largest and americas largest company at roughly 1.5 million employees.
i heard walmart was exploring the possibility of a used car dealership network....what's next? buyout GM?
06-10-05, 12:29 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Wal-Mart is also notoriously cheap-paying. I doubt if even the CEO makes 28K. (OK...so that's exaggerating a little)
06-10-05, 12:32 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by GQD_GS4
i heard walmart was exploring the possibility of a used car dealership network....what's next? buyout GM?
06-10-05, 12:37 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by jpa2400
$28 an hour with a little OT is $60,000. Not sure where you guys come from but being in recruiting, I see people with 1-2 degrees not making this.... So pay a guy 60k for unskilled labor?
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And...for the jobs NOT done by machine.....your life and mine could literally be riding on the quality of work that those people do....even if it is just putting relatively simple like putting on a wheel / tire assembly with an impact wrench. Put the lugs on too tight and they strip, warp the brake rotors and are almost impossible to get off.....too loose and the wheels could fall off.
One of the reasons (among many others, of course) why Toyota and Lexus produce such good vehicles is the quality of the people in the plants......quality they are willing to pay for.
06-10-05, 01:03 PM
#51
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by mmarshall
One of the reasons (among many others, of course) why Toyota and Lexus produce such good vehicles is the quality of the people in the plants......quality they are willing to pay for.
Money\Salary doesn't dictate pride in your work. A clear reason why they are now building plants in the south... I worked for a Tier 1 that had one plant in Metro Detroit, and one out in the sticks over an hour away. The wages were lower in the sticks plant, but production and quality could never be matched by the Metro Detroit plant. They had a bunch of "country folk" that took pride in there work, not someone who is use to itching to the UAW for more money\less work.
Sorry homey, 12th grade education while your using a robot that does most the work for you, or if your driving a hi-lo or a puller in the warehouse, it's not worth $50,000-60,000 on a 40 for this.
You should take pride in your work if it's $10\hr or $40\hr, plain and simple.
Salary in my mind is skill needed, coupled with demand for that type of skill along with talent supply... Fact is if Ford put a sign outside saying $35,000\yr for line workers, there would be a line a mile long to take those $60,000 retards jobs who say the UAW is god day in and day out.
06-10-05, 01:41 PM
#52
Originally Posted by UDel
It is not the common GM workers fault and saying most of them sleep on the job and work drunk is making a pretty unfair generalization. There are problems with people sleeping and drinking on the job in all types of jobs. Also paying workers only $12 an hour is not going to solve anything but make these workers not able to support their families and work massive amounts of overtime. Any money saved will go into top management pockets so they can buy more private jets, stay at more 5 star hotels, buy more yachts, buy more million dollar homes etc. Some of the jobs at GM are not $28 an hour jobs but most of those workers do work hard and deserve what they get. Why is their jobs not worth more then $12 an hour yet just because mommy and daddy payed for college and graduate school many of those people somehow are entitled and deserve high paying jobs when most of these jobs have you just sitting at an airconditioned desk and not working nearly as hard as autoworkers. Some of the so called well educated and highest payed people I have met are the most arrogant shady scumbags and will weasal their way to the top no matter how many people they screw over or get fired. What do lawyers do that are so deserving of high income over auto workers.
You used to be able to make a decent living and provide for your family doing jobs that did not require a college education like building cars, working at stores, working at manufacturing plants etc and now these jobs are getting away with paying people $7-$12 an hour where you can not only support a family but with the cost of things today you can't support yourself on those wages. Even entry level college jobs often don't pay anything and it is going to continue to hurt our economy. There are always top level people in these companies that are multi millionares and have no desire to not get a raise or take a cut in pay to help out the real employees.
I worked at a GM plant over the summer and the vast majority of the workers there worked hard and took pride in their work. They complained that they wanted to build cars like Lexus, Honda, Toyota, Porsche etc but were given subpar designs and materials. I did see one lady who did sleep on the job and she was protected by the union and I had to pretty much do her job as well as mine but that was the exception and not the norm. I don't know how things are in Detroit but it is not like that in every American GM plant and things like that happen in all types of plants and jobs even white collar jobs.
You used to be able to make a decent living and provide for your family doing jobs that did not require a college education like building cars, working at stores, working at manufacturing plants etc and now these jobs are getting away with paying people $7-$12 an hour where you can not only support a family but with the cost of things today you can't support yourself on those wages. Even entry level college jobs often don't pay anything and it is going to continue to hurt our economy. There are always top level people in these companies that are multi millionares and have no desire to not get a raise or take a cut in pay to help out the real employees.
I worked at a GM plant over the summer and the vast majority of the workers there worked hard and took pride in their work. They complained that they wanted to build cars like Lexus, Honda, Toyota, Porsche etc but were given subpar designs and materials. I did see one lady who did sleep on the job and she was protected by the union and I had to pretty much do her job as well as mine but that was the exception and not the norm. I don't know how things are in Detroit but it is not like that in every American GM plant and things like that happen in all types of plants and jobs even white collar jobs.
Also, it is the designs and marketing of many of the GM cars that suck. Who in their right mind would buy a Pontiac G6 over the 300M
The workers are doing what they can while the executives arent. Even if you get the Monte Carlo or Malibu hand assembled on a dolley in Ferrari's plant in Italy or the NSX's plant in Japan, it would still be a piece of crap fugly fwd car. GM needs to get back on the drawing board and either redesign or scrap almost every car on its lineup. As were speaking, there going to soon release a new FWD V8 SS Monte Carlo 
06-10-05, 01:56 PM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by xknowonex
I think its unfair how people are so quickly to blame the unions. Are the Toyota and other "import" factories in America unionized also? If not, I still assume that they pay as well if not better than GM.
Also, it is the designs and marketing of many of the GM cars that suck. Who in their right mind would buy a Pontiac G6 over the 300M The workers are doing what they can while the executives arent. Even if you get the Monte Carlo or Malibu hand assembled on a dolley in Ferrari's plant in Italy or the NSX's plant in Japan, it would still be a piece of crap fugly fwd car. GM needs to get back on the drawing board and either redesign or scrap almost every car on its lineup. As were speaking, there going to soon release a new FWD V8 SS Monte Carlo
Also, it is the designs and marketing of many of the GM cars that suck. Who in their right mind would buy a Pontiac G6 over the 300M
The workers are doing what they can while the executives arent. Even if you get the Monte Carlo or Malibu hand assembled on a dolley in Ferrari's plant in Italy or the NSX's plant in Japan, it would still be a piece of crap fugly fwd car. GM needs to get back on the drawing board and either redesign or scrap almost every car on its lineup. As were speaking, there going to soon release a new FWD V8 SS Monte Carlo "None of the automaker's U.S. plants is unionized."
Yep, real quick to blame the unions. Maybe you need to live here, have your freinds and family work for the UAW then you will understand. There is a REASON why Detroit is losing the name "motor city" because all the plants are moving elsewhere!
I recall a story from an old plant manager friend. About a plant down south, may have been a toyota or honda plant. UAW bought up a ton of billboards on the freeway leading to the building. 12 months later they gave up. People are not stupid, they seen what the unions have done to the auto industry in Michigan.
And they don't make UAW wages, but they make fair wages with no BS and they treat their employees WELL Because if you show up and do YOUR JOB, you don't need to hide behind a union.........
06-10-05, 04:34 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Walmart is one of the most wealthy franchises yet they pay their workers nothing and in turn you get poor service and a crappy reputation for the store catering to a lower class people. Walmart has even been known to use illegal immigrants and pay them much less then minimum wage. All this money goes into the pocket of a handful of top executives etc who have hundreds of millions of dollars and have no intention of sharing their wealth with the people who helped make them wealthy. This is true with many companies and businesses these days. It is one of the reasons we have such a huge low income segment in our country because most jobs that you used to make a comfortable living with now pay their workers nothing. Not all jobs require a college degree and many jobs that do require a college degree, you really don't have to go to college to do the job. Not everyone can afford or wants to go to college. You should not be penalized for not going to college to poor paying jobs. There are not enough "college degree" jobs out there to support most Americans. The lower you pay people the less they can buy and our economy goes down which cause middle and upper class people to loose money in mutual funds, investments, etc. People should get payed what is fair, can live on, how long they worked, how successful the company is etc instead of what someone says is worthy of a high paycheck. Many white collar people would not be able to handle working in a autoplant or other blue collard jobs and many of these blue collar workers could easily do what white collar workers do. The Toyota and Honda plants are non union but they still pay workers $18+ an hour and they make profits and high quality products.
Just because people get jobs that require college, graduate and high GPA does not mean they are working any harder or deserving of more pay then blue collar workers. Workers making $22-28 an hour is not GM's problem but the problem goes to the top where people are making millions to several hundred thousand a year and greedy shady auto unions. Instead of lowering wages on blue collar jobs that some people deam unskilled labor or not worth a good paycheck how about they lower salaries on white collar jobs and try to make things a little more even. It will actaully be better for the economy if they did this. CEOs, lawyers, managers, high level executives, investors, consultants, stadium owners, number crunchers, etc do not really need or deserve to be payed hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year either even if they did go to ivy league colleges and have graduate degrees or high GPAs.
Just because people get jobs that require college, graduate and high GPA does not mean they are working any harder or deserving of more pay then blue collar workers. Workers making $22-28 an hour is not GM's problem but the problem goes to the top where people are making millions to several hundred thousand a year and greedy shady auto unions. Instead of lowering wages on blue collar jobs that some people deam unskilled labor or not worth a good paycheck how about they lower salaries on white collar jobs and try to make things a little more even. It will actaully be better for the economy if they did this. CEOs, lawyers, managers, high level executives, investors, consultants, stadium owners, number crunchers, etc do not really need or deserve to be payed hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year either even if they did go to ivy league colleges and have graduate degrees or high GPAs.
Last edited by UDel; 06-10-05 at 04:37 PM.
06-11-05, 06:51 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by UDel
Walmart is one of the most wealthy franchises yet they pay their workers nothing and in turn you get poor service and a crappy reputation for the store catering to a lower class people. Walmart has even been known to use illegal immigrants and pay them much less then minimum wage. All this money goes into the pocket of a handful of top executives etc who have hundreds of millions of dollars and have no intention of sharing their wealth with the people who helped make them wealthy. This is true with many companies and businesses these days. It is one of the reasons we have such a huge low income segment in our country because most jobs that you used to make a comfortable living with now pay their workers nothing. Not all jobs require a college degree and many jobs that do require a college degree, you really don't have to go to college to do the job. Not everyone can afford or wants to go to college. You should not be penalized for not going to college to poor paying jobs. There are not enough "college degree" jobs out there to support most Americans. The lower you pay people the less they can buy and our economy goes down which cause middle and upper class people to loose money in mutual funds, investments, etc. People should get payed what is fair, can live on, how long they worked, how successful the company is etc instead of what someone says is worthy of a high paycheck. Many white collar people would not be able to handle working in a autoplant or other blue collard jobs and many of these blue collar workers could easily do what white collar workers do. The Toyota and Honda plants are non union but they still pay workers $18+ an hour and they make profits and high quality products.
Just because people get jobs that require college, graduate and high GPA does not mean they are working any harder or deserving of more pay then blue collar workers. Workers making $22-28 an hour is not GM's problem but the problem goes to the top where people are making millions to several hundred thousand a year and greedy shady auto unions. Instead of lowering wages on blue collar jobs that some people deam unskilled labor or not worth a good paycheck how about they lower salaries on white collar jobs and try to make things a little more even. It will actaully be better for the economy if they did this. CEOs, lawyers, managers, high level executives, investors, consultants, stadium owners, number crunchers, etc do not really need or deserve to be payed hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year either even if they did go to ivy league colleges and have graduate degrees or high GPAs.
Just because people get jobs that require college, graduate and high GPA does not mean they are working any harder or deserving of more pay then blue collar workers. Workers making $22-28 an hour is not GM's problem but the problem goes to the top where people are making millions to several hundred thousand a year and greedy shady auto unions. Instead of lowering wages on blue collar jobs that some people deam unskilled labor or not worth a good paycheck how about they lower salaries on white collar jobs and try to make things a little more even. It will actaully be better for the economy if they did this. CEOs, lawyers, managers, high level executives, investors, consultants, stadium owners, number crunchers, etc do not really need or deserve to be payed hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year either even if they did go to ivy league colleges and have graduate degrees or high GPAs.
06-11-05, 07:52 AM
#56
Lexus Connoisseur
Originally Posted by Inabj2
Thats what I like about the retail bussiness your promotion depends solely on your skill as a worker and your worth ethic. If you have a bussiness degree you might just might skip an hourly position and get a entry level management position... or you can work as an hourly associate and get there in about same time or less then what it takes to finish college. Best of both worlds is to go to school and work imo. However higher ups ussually rely on work experience alone to handle the job, believe me no college anywhere will teach you how to run a major retail franchise with classes alone.
06-11-05, 08:21 AM
#57
Lexus Connoisseur
I think we lost a little focus here. We were originally talking about Toyota's concern for GM's livelihood. Let's discuss the automotive industry, business models, market pricing and how it affects the US & world economy. If you want to talk about how to work your way to the top of your local Wal-Mart, you can talk about it in the Clubhouse.
Thanks.
Thanks.
06-11-05, 08:36 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
You can use me as one of your references.
Hey Mike, keep me in mind once you're in and have flushed out the clogged toilet that is GM upper management.
M.
06-11-05, 10:54 AM
#59
Originally Posted by UDel
Just because people get jobs that require college, graduate and high GPA does not mean they are working any harder or deserving of more pay then blue collar workers.
Yeah they are MORE deserving of more pay than blue collar types... thats just how it is...
everyone can go to school and expand themselves if they want to, its too easy to get school money these days ESPECIALLY if you're a minority
everyone can get a degree that they want if they work hard enough...
and after all that they deserve the extra money their degree entails... they worked hard to get it
06-11-05, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Well you're not going to get rich working a manager position at Walgreens or Walmart. You're right, college degree or not, will not teach you how to run a retail franchise, but then again, without a college degree and good experience, you're not going to become wealthy advance above the middle class with that type of job. Any higher management job requires experience. They don't just give a management job to any non-experienced worker. That's already a given. I'd rather have the backing of a business degree than work my way up to the top in the same amount of years. Because if anything happens with the job you worked 4 years to get to, the same person w/the business degree isn't stuck in a dead end job at a retail store only.
These people make more money then the so called white collar workers. Store manager in Lowe's for example, is said they could theoritically become a millionaire in 5 years of that position. Their base pay is already in the 6 digit figures, and their bonuses are absolutely huge if their store is succesful, about 150 percent addition to their base pay. (imagine having a 200k bonus?)
I fail to see how this is a dead end job. And not everyone in those positions have college degrees.
A bussiness degree helps but its not an absolute necessity nor will anyone be stuck in a dead end position without it. Work experience is valued greatly in this bussiness. As well as their own bussiness and management courses which are quite extensive. Thus the reason why college degree helps, but is not required, because they teach you everything you need to know.
A store manager in home depot, when he left the company and went to a rival company, his experience was valued to the point where he could resume his career at the point he left it at home depot with lowes.
The only drawback to this bussiness well drawback for most people here, is that this bussiness well some workaholics lurk around I have witnessed dedicated people come in at 4 am, leave at 8 pm, and be back next day at 4 am.
Not to mention that their stock options and 401k plans in addition to their decent wages are more then adequate.
But honestly rarely will anyone get trully wealthy working for someone else, generally speaking people that start their own enterprises and become succesful are the ones that make the most.