XeroK00L

Luckily, people still line up to buy it.

http://rope.wjr.com/audio/auto/Eisenstein-06.22.05.wma
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Indu...173.A8802.html

WJR Auto Report: Toyota's Hybrid Quandary

No manufacturer has been more aggressive in bringing hybrids to market than Toyota. So you can imagine my surprise when I read the results of an interview with the Japanese automaker's new chief of research and development. According to Kazuo Okamato, hybrid technology just doesn't make sense for American motorists. Actually make that dollars and cents. Okamato told the Financial Times that "when you just use the argument of fuel efficiency," the technology is "not justified." In other words, you can't save enough money on gas to pay off the higher price for a hybrid vehicle. That's not to say Okamato is writing off the technology. A hybrid's biggest appeal, he suggests, is to those who want to do their part to save the environment, something you can't always work into an economic equation. That's the sort of logic that has confounded many of Toyota's competitors, including General Motors. But the long waiting list for Toyota's hybrids suggests American buyers are clearly motivated by more than just economics.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

very interesting. i have a feeling that the hybrid system still has a lot of room for improvement and eventually the price of that will drop more to make it more "cost effective". so i think toyota is heading in the very right direction, just that to consumer, we are not really saving right now

xravexboix

Although profits are slightly down on the hybrids (ATM), it doesn't mean the long term will be negative. It certainly does NOT help save gas on freeways (until they implement bank shut downs as seen in the Honda Odyssey and a few other vehicles) but it's a matter of having the best and newest technologies in hand =D

One of the silent marketing strategies w/ the GX 470's KDSS system was that it's a technology exclusive to Lexus (production vehicle) and it's NEW technology... just like integrating bluetooth into the Gen 4 Navs... and... uh... [insert other cool Lexus features]

Celicamaro

Hybrid is here to stay and will make economic sense. The timings a bit off, but like everything else, it'll justify itself sooner or Later. China and India isn't about to stop consuming gasoline just so americans can have cheaper gas prices. Their economy isn't about to collapse or be put on hold so we can go back to driving gas guzzling SUVs and fullsize trucks. In fact as the citizens of India and China start making big money, they'll want to live big and drive big guzzlers like us. So unless someone else comes up with a better and cheaper alternative, Hybrids about the best thing the worlds got. Toyota will be laughing all the way to their own bank.

XeroK00L

I think the R&D dude is being too honest as an engineer type. He should've let their marketing guy do the babbling while behind the scene he continues to improve the technology to eventually match what the marketing claims. Letting engineers do the PR isn't usually the smartest business move.

Gojirra99

Yeah, that guy just doesn't know what he's talking about I don't know about the Prius, but with the RX400h, which is only ~$3000 over the RX330 after the loaded options on the hybrid are taken into account, just the performance gain ALONE is enough to fully justifiy the $3k difference, with the better mileage being a bonus (in addition to not getting the worse mileage of using a bigger engine to achieve a similar performance gain). It seems the only concern is that the battery might not last the lifetime of the car, but I think they will get cheaper with time even if it doesn't. Plus we still haven't heard much of a lot of the 1997 Prius having need to replace their batteries yet . . .

ntran18

iTrader: (27)

Or maybe hybrids are Toyota's stepping stone to some sorta electrical power system down the line. They are known to do things long term and definitely short term, hybrids don't make much sense.

flipside909

You're right. Having an engineering degree has nothing to do with Economic sense and understanding. Unless one is a double major in Econ and Engineering both haha.

xioix

that is what i was going to say, the added supercharged like performance with better gas mileage is a btter than just a supercharger

toyota said the battery should last about 180k miles, so it depends how much you drive till you have to replace the battery

mmarshall

Well, I'll give hybrids their due in achieving high mileage and low emissions both, but in the long run.....as I've said several times here on CL, I still remain firmly convinced that diesels will be a better way to go, especially after the low-sulfur diesel fuel and urea-injections become available here in the U.S. next year. Diesels currently offer roughly the same mileage as hybrids, but with MUCH less complexity and production costs. They also don't have those large, heavy battery packs.
However, they still don't run quite as clean as hybrids, and are outlawed in several states (not surprisingly, including CA) because of particulate emissions, but all that is going to change starting next year...for reasons I have just stated.

The arguement has been brought up before that diesel-hybrids will offer even better mileage.......which is probably true, but then you get back to that issue of complexity.

Gojirra99

How can diesel be a good solution in the long run when it's a limited resource with future prices likely to increase more & more & which will no longer be available in the future ?
I guess horse drawn carriages is the way to go for less complexity when fossil fuels are no longer available