Gojirra99

The cars in the pics are heavily disguised, did they even show conclusively that they are the new Honda Civic ? Anyone is free to speculate. Can they have a legal case based on that ?

flipside909

If you ID the registered owner of those specialty plates, and you can id the photograhper which is pretty easy to do...(both first and last name), legal action can be taken against all the parties involved. The site hosting the info, the site who bought the photos and the person who specifically took the photos and bragging about selling them.

Gojirra99

What will be the damage to Honda then if they don't show a specific future model of Honda ? One can take a picture of any scenery with cars (among many other things) and sell it to anyone if someone is willing to buy it. You mean anyone whose cars/house/ or whatever is in the picture can sue for damage/compensation ?

flipside909

It's just like me taking photos of your car, and selling it to a company for someone for profit. The photos were taken w/o your permission and people are profiting off your own property. There was a specific motive for taking the pictures (profit) and it was published...both the motive of the photographer and the company claming the goods. Infringement is a pretty serious matter here in the states.

Gojirra99

Then many of those companies selling postcards can be in trouble. Many postcards can include many well known buildings some of them even with company name/logo 's on them. Does that mean they have to get permisssion from every single owner of those buildings before they can take an aerial picture of the city & sell the pictures as postcards ?

If you live in a scenic area(say around a lake), then maybe you should go look at the postcards in your city to see if any one of them captured your house so you can ask for compensation since they are selling the nice scenery that includes your house for profit without your permission.

What about the shooting of commercial films in your neighboorhood ? They may have to apply for permits from the city for shooting on the streets,but do they also have to get permission from every single owner of properties that maybe captured on film before they can do that ?

What about those photos taken of celebrities when they're in public & published by mags for profits, that are not spy photos & are taken without haressing them? They don't get permission for those , do they ?

I'm not a legal expert escpecially in US laws which can be different for different states, but that sounds a little far-fetched to me . . . maybe someone with a legal background can chime in.

flipside909

I think we're on two different pages here. If legal action was taken here, there is a specific intent in mind because there is a specific subject here and it's published in the title and the initial post. Profit. We know who took the photos (full name, location, phone number and what family this person is affiliated with), we know what he did with the photos, and we know and it is published in black and white here, what was received in return for those goods. The photos are of something that hasn't been released for sale to the public. Not post cards or calendars of scenery that is already common knowledge.

Gojirra99

Which goes back to the point that the photos didn't show that it's specifically the next Honda Civic, which is not common Knowlege yet. These photos didn't prove it's the next Honda Civic, but only speculates. Anybody is free to speculate about what they saw in public, can't they ?

Even the license plates themselves can only imply they belong to Honda Corp, they do not automatically imply 100% that those are even Honda Brand Vehicles.

flipside909

If Honda actually wanted to pursue this, all they have to do is show you the exact same car uncovered and show you proof of registration to that vehicle and it's registered purpose. If you look at the common parts, gascap, and etc...even down to the taped...covered up glass etching, that's purely a honda. One of the other civic photos show Ohio MFG plates. Marysville, Ohio is home to a big Honda America plant.

There are a bunch of indicators there that show the vehicle is a Honda or is owned by Honda. I even have pics of the new Odyssey covered in camoflauge and tape. I took pics of the car including the California MFG plate and honda's 562 designation...on top of the same black tape they covered up all the H badges and glass etchings with. But you don't see me bragging about selling it to an internet site and putting my full name out there for a legal team to trace down.

mmarshall

I don't see anything wrong with it even if they did. AmethySC ( He was using the name SexySC back then ) managed to get UNCOVERED Corvette Z06 shots and show them to us at CL before the official intro at the Detroit Show (for which we are grateful, Amethy ). The world didn't come to an end......and the GM secret police didn't bust his front door down at 3 AM and lock him up.

Again.....I say nice going, Amethy. IMO it is always a good thing when somebody can beat the tape-and-bra morons at their own game....a game of nonsense. I have no sympathy at all for them....absolutely NONE......ZERO. If they don't like it.......tough. They can just keep the cars uncovered in the first place.

However, you are correct in your earlier statement about legal action being a possible consequence of posting-for-profit. It is one thing, before a vehicle is officially introduced, just to post something for general automotive news or knowledge.....that's fine, but to do it for personal financial gain is quite another matter. In that case, as you say, the company would be justified in taking legal action.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I'm not overly concerned about it. I called one of my Lexus contacts right after it happened and asked him if what I did was legal, and he told me that as long as the cars were on public roads...the pictures were completely ok.

flipside909

Michael Pannone, your Lexus contact shouldn't have any concern because it's not one of their own vehicles. Plus you even flat out admitted to us your intention was to sell the photos for a profit. Bragging doesn't really get you far. Haven't you learned from your first encounter with a legal corprorate entity? It's not a game. Here's a refresher:

Gojirra99

Exactly, the public won't know for sure that's the next Honda Civic UNTIL AFTER Honda wants to uncover the car to show it. The public won't know for sure it's the next Honda Civic just by looking at those photos & speculating about it since the cars are masked. And you have yet to explain what damage did Honda suffer by having photo's of the MASKED cars shown on the net, when most of the German brands have CGI's that look almost exactly like the cars eventually unveiled published by sites like autobild 2 years before the release of the official photos.
You can't get a meaningful legal judgement if you can't prove actual damage in court. Having pre-release spy photos floating around actually helps build anticipation & provide free publicity & is actually beneficial to them. Maybe they think having masked cars seen around just adds a little bit of mystery that's all. I doubt if Honda would even give this much of a thought, except smiling to themselves.

It's still speculation until Honda reveals the car unmasked themselves, & while some people may not like people who brags, I don't think you can usually sue people successfully for that unless you can prove it damages somebody.

BTW, I don't think anybody would be dumb enough to pay a significantly large sum for photo's of freaking masked civics anyway , & it's not like he sneak into the Honda headquarter to take pics of unmasked cars to sell .

flipside909

What damage is Honda suffering? Individuals making money of products they have yet to release to the general public. The person who originally made the post KNOWS what the vehicle is hence the title of the thread, advertising what he's going to do with the photos and making profit off of it.

Because spy photographers don't announce who they are on the internet and what they plan to do w/photos they are taking. That's the whole point of spy photography...to remain anonymous. This is exactly opposite of what the person in this thread is doing. He's bragging about out and making it annouced what he plans to do...and already has his name pasted on the photos for bragging rights. Now if he just posted the photos that wouldn't be a problem, but he did it for profit. It's called greed.

You'll be surpised what evidence you can use against an individual if a manufacturer wants to really pursue. There's no problem with spy photos, you see it all the time here on CL, but when you're intention is to brag on the internet just to get your name out...and make money on top of it...that's pretty low. Dunno about Canada, but we see camo cars and prototypes all the time on a regular basis here in SoCal, whether it's endurance testing, or photo shoots and etc. Lots of people post photos of them...it's the greedy ones sell them to media sources.

Sure it's speculation, but not by the tone of the post and the thread title. I don't care about people who brag, it's about what could legally happen to the person who started it and the people who host it. Would you want CL to be sued or shut down by Honda America because they were associated with a person selling spy photos of their cars for a profit? Look at the big picture here, not what may seem like a petty subject.

flipside909

If anyone any indivudual or organization is desperate enough, they will do anything when it involves money. Especially when it's a big corporation against the small guy or vice versa. Money talks.

Gojirra99

I still doubt Honda would even waste as much time as us discussing about this to think about possible legal actions here. I'm still not convinced they'll have much of a case, particularly one that's worth pursuing, unless a legal professional explain the legalities to me in details about this case, & even then, different lawyers can have different opnions, that's why they have trials, no wonder people are complaining about too much frivilous lawsuits down there.

Autobild's pictures are CGI's not spy shots, & they specifically said it's the next S class, CL-class etc.