CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

This is true, I think it would be very hard for Honda to make the same splash they did with the NSX with whatever new car they come out with. The appeal of the NSX back then was Ferrari performance with Civic reliability and civility. Even the Ferrari 360 overtook the NSX in that regard except for the Civic reliability part. But the 430 should be considered one of the most reiable Ferraris out there. That said, I don't think Honda can make much waves in that regard. More than likely it will just be amont the top world class leaders in performance. The one part I do feel Honda will make a huge splash with is with the transmission. Could we see the very first production carbon fiber sequential manual gear box? Probably not, but you never know.

TSXtacy

^^ An Acura insider pointed out to an Acura forum that the conventional 6MT would not be offered on certain (if not all) models in the near future and only offer an AT (5-6 gears) and a Sequential Gearbox (6-7 gears?) as the "DYI" variant. Don't look at me, though, I'm just reporting what I heard from a very good solitary source.

It'd be a real shame if the 6MT was lifted out of the TSX, TL, and even RSX. I know from the many compliments that the TSX's slushbox is simply superb, and I hear similar comments about the RSX-S and TL gearboxes.

Celicamaro

This little piece of news is setting internet forums on fire especially the Honda ones. I wonder if Honda knows there is more anticipation for their NSX replacement than any new upcoming Ferrari, lamborghini or Porsche. But inlike the Euros who are guaranteed to be sales success especially the Ferraris where just about every model is sold out even before car hits the street.

I think No matter how good the NSX replacement will be, I highly doubt it'll come anywhere near the sales succes of the Euros or even the Ford GT. MAny people like the idea of an NSX replacement, but when ti comes to shelling out the cash, there won't be enough real buyers to make it profitable and that's a shame. But HOnda is rich so losing money on NSX just so they can have a halo car is no big deal, same with Lexus and their LF-C supercar.

Celicamaro

I agree with you there, only thing I would change are those ugly chrome wheels. I never could understand why Ferrari,Lambo and Porsche has such ugly wheels on their ultra expensive vehicles. For the price they charge, You'd think that a set of an ultra light weight three piece deep dish design from manufacturors like HRE, WORKS, BBS, RAYS, Racing Hart, etc. would come standard since these are suppose to be ultimate high performance vehicles. By going with those wheels, I think they just might save more money than casting their own uglier designs. Now that the vehicles look even better with the aftermarket wheels, they can easily jack the prices up and no one will complain. It's a win win situations.

Incendiary

Where are you seeing this discussed heavily? I see nothing on TOV, one thread on Acuraworld, and the thread here.

Celicamaro

You might want to check VTEC.NET again. NSX forums will also be very lively with excitement. This news is rather low keyed, even many people who work for acura dealers don't know about it, but they and everyone else will soon.

LexFather

Its still going to be tough. The NSX was perfect pretty much but TOO MUCH has changed since the cars debut. No one bought it badged as a Honda, no one bought it as an Acura. The whole "image" thing.

Today, we now have a new 911 and the 911 has more varients than ever. Then ASton MArtin has the DB-8 coming. The next Jaguar XK promises to be sportier. You even have the Panoz cars. You have Nissan bringing us the GT-R and Lexus possibly with the LF-A. Ferrari has TOTALLY gotten it together, they have THE BEST supercar lineup. Lamborghini has the Gallardo. Even BENZ offers the AMG cars with staggering performance. The BMW M6 is here.

True, more of these cars are sold than ever before, so hopefully there is space for the next NSX. But the NSX really had its chance back in 1990. Today, there is just too much competition and the established brands are going down further and further in price with entry level models.
Not direct competiton but the Bentely Coupe and Maserati Coupe are more examples. Lotus Esprit replacement is coming. Hell lets not forget the Viper and new Corvette Z06.

The outgoing NSX was a 90k car!!

That is why 1/2 of Honda wants to do something TOTALLY different. A hybrid sports car. B/C that would give them a DISTINCT advantage. it would offer instant torque, fuel economy (though never an issue with these buyers) and the trendy thing of owning a hybrid.

Honda has to have something big up its sleeve. It just has too.

Celicamaro

Honda can always do what Mazda has done to the Miata. Get the basics right and no matter how fancy or fast the competitions may get, you can't go wrong with light weight, ultra tossibility, ultra responsiveness, ultra raw, awesome tactile feedback, unmatched reliability, the best shifters in the world and great engine sound. Oh wait, they've already done that in the S2000 and NSX, that's why those cars are so good and stood the test of time without needing much change. I guess they can always refine what they've already done add more power and put it in a more exciting and modern looking package.

If these new Civic engine coming this fall is any indication, the next NSX engines will be even better. Honda almost always beat everyone at their own game and their products are consistantly at the top of their respective classes. SO even if NSX replacement isn't as powerful or comes with a V8, I have no doubt that it will at least match the best of it's competitors out there.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

The wheels on that magazine rendition is the same as on the HSC. They are 20" rims and I think most of us had already agreed that it was kind of ugly. However, we must remember that the HSC was just a concept and we all know the flash and large rims draws the attention. More than likely the real production version will have no larger than 19" rims and probably 18" forged alloy rims. The current NSX indeed does have very light weight foreged rims. in fact, my stock NSX rims are much lighter than my SSR GT3 rims I had. The real NSX-R rims are wider and even lighter than the standard NSX rims. So, based on past history, I would safely say that any production version of Honfa/Acura sports cars will indeed have very light weight forged rims. As far as weight is concern I don't think we have to worry. Style on the other hand is subjective so we will have to wait and see what they come up with. After all, the stock 91-93 rims were pretty ugly IMHO But the 94+ rims are all pretty nice.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Since Honda's finance philosophy has changed a lot since Soichiro Honda days, I really can't say what Honda is thinking. Maybe they learned from the mid 90s to current that they needed to get back to their roots and their motto of "Precision Crafted Performance". After all, Soichiro Honda aways wanted a halo sports car not because of the competition but because he loved racing with a passion. When the NSX was being developed every engineer working on that project had to spend some time in one of their racing programs like F1. This is the type of passion that made the NSX what it was. Once honda lost that passion things went sort of south. Maybe they learned their lessson.

Anyway, the rest of your post is the exact same reason why I said in other LF-A topics that niether an new NSX or Lexus super car will be able to compete (Sales wise) with the other Italian exotics. I said it didn't matter back in 1990 and it wont matter today how much better the performance is of a Japanese sports car. Those that buy Porsche 911's are a special loyal bunch. Those that buy Ferrari and Lamborghi buy it because of their name and could care less about reliability.

Halo cars like this in the short term for the Japanese companies are simply marketing tools. Maybe one day in the future these types of cars will have paved the way for future Japanese sports cars being accpeted along side Ferrari and Lamborghini, but not in the near future.

Sales wise these Japanese sports cars will never by huges success. Maybe Lexus will sell every single LF-A, but that is because they might limit production. With the NSX, it sold 3000+ the first year, than 2000+ the 2nd year and slowly went down. However, the sales numbers has always jump up quite significatly when there was a change like in 1995 with the NSX-T came out and again in 1997 when the updated motor and trans came out. By the time 2002 came out with the new face lift it was just too late, but the sales still went up. What that tells me personally is that there is a market for these types of Japanese cars, just that the companies better keep it fresh and not let it age too long.

ST430

You may want to check your facts and figures. NSXs sold topped only 1,940, during its first year. Every subsequent years has gone down with total sales to which, only roughly 8,733 have called them theirs in the US.

Back in 99', I contemplated buying a Zanardi edition because i still loved it's unique exotic look (mind you i had 2 1993/1997 Supra TT's then), and exclusivity with the reliability (sans the early snap ring issues). The other choice at that time did not merit the name cachet nor the money that came along with it (i.e porsche 911 TT or Ferrari).

Today is a different world though. You have the semi-exoticness of hi-po Z06's running around. Carrera that are usually the most reliable sports cars and viable good buys with name recognition. You have the Ferraris and Lambos who have really reinvented themselves for the 21st century being more exotic and flashier than ever. And hot on their tales are now the more "mundane" brands like Bimmers, Benz's, Audi's, and even Lexus' now trying to penetrate that market big time with new AMG's, RSxx's, ///M powered, etc. To say that the clientel is more demanding of what constitutes exotic and exclusivity, is a bigger understatement then ever before.

For the next NSX to be successful, first and foremost the brand Acura must be re-established itself as some type of leader in the luxury arena. Although the NSX name is well known, i don't think the nameplate could support or sell itself say like a GT-R, which has established itself as a legend around the world. The look of the NSX must be exotic and unique with trace of family lineage. The hp must be either unique in its drivetrain / power train (hybrid, awd, etc.) and tremendous acceleration (since we have $30k compact family sedans that are smoking hi-po luxo cars nowadays).

IMHO the new RL failed miserably, as i was looking for a viable alternative to a GS430 or LS430 instead it was aimed straight at a M35/GS300 fighter. Good enough to sell some more, but not sufficient enough to elicit nothing but a yawn from enthusiasts (that or M5...hmm), the real demographic for exotic buyers. Therein lies the problem with Acura. Honda is not a RICH company, as Toyota, with infinite resources, as many believe them to be. They are still inherently very small comparatively, and can ill afford to take too many gambles (witness the 06' Accord MMC). They do need to stick their necks out for the next NSX, but also ensure they don't go into a financial burden, as they did with the old NSX.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

You are right, my numbers for all years are a bit off, but not that much. According to the numbers we have in NSX Prime 1991 sold 3,163. They sold 1093 Red with black interiors alone, and 2886 manual trans with 277 automatics. In 1992 the sales dropped significantly and I was mistaken that it was over 2000 units as they sold only 1270 cars. In1995 sales went up to 780 cars from 512 in 1994. I waa wrong for the 97 though as the sales actually still decline at 338 cars as opposed to 505 in 1996. These are all USDM cars only and not including Canada or other parts of the world. I believe LUD (NSX Prime site administrator gets these numbers from American Honda). They also have a breakdown for each color sold and with what interior color and transmission for each year.

Incendiary

I think the Japanese can, if they put their minds and money to it, succeed in the exotic car market. No one took the Japanese seriously when they entered the lux car market, and Lexus is kicking tail in it now. They may not have the highest prestige, but they're making lots of money, which is really the most important thing business-wise.

However, here's what I (and I'll wager a large majority of car people) think when I think of different countries and cars:

Germans: luxury sport marques, like MB and BMW
Italians: exotic roadsters, like Lambo and Ferrari and Maserati
British: expensive and unreliable luxury, like RR, Bentley, Aston, Jag
American: shoddy build quality with large V8 engines shoehorned into muscle cars, like 'vettes and Mustang Cobras
Japanese: affordable, reliable, boring, economy cars

Perceptions change, and I can think of many cars from each country that I'd love to own, or at least drive for a month, but those are the first things that come to mind for me.

pvmike1

Here's the discussion at Prime: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53936

I agree that it's going to be a tough market for the NSX. There are so many choices: exotic cars like Ferraris, Lambos, Astons and Bentleys; marque name brands with supercar performance like AMG's, M-series, and P-cars, as well as out-of-the-box track cars like the Z06 and Elise. Where will the new NSX fit in, and at what price point?

I guess we'll see.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

honestly, i hope and wish that honda or acura will continue to carry the nsx, that's such a legendary car. the nsx and the s2k are the two cars that i will ever only consider from honda (at least from teh current lineup). i was pretty saddened when they said the nsx was pulled