So what does everyone think about this new Hummer H3??
07-16-05, 01:53 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by thisguy_06
i'm with this guy. My positive image of Hummer was completely ruined after i saw the H2 on spinners
Should we all think differently of Lexus now because of this LS400?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=170893
07-16-05, 02:17 PM
#47
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My main beef with the baby Hummers and new Range Rovers are that they are basically a decade too late to market.
Ten years ago they would have been relavent, but now with rising gas prices and even more crowded streets they just are not necessary. GM and others really need to drop their obsession with SUVs, especially large ones, as it looks like most Americans have. GM please don't make anymore Hummer vaiations. The consumer looking for a large SUV built to substandard quality already has more than enough choices today.
Ten years ago they would have been relavent, but now with rising gas prices and even more crowded streets they just are not necessary. GM and others really need to drop their obsession with SUVs, especially large ones, as it looks like most Americans have. GM please don't make anymore Hummer vaiations. The consumer looking for a large SUV built to substandard quality already has more than enough choices today.
07-16-05, 02:45 PM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Order66
My main beef with the baby Hummers and new Range Rovers are that they are basically a decade too late to market.
Ten years ago they would have been relavent, but now with rising gas prices and even more crowded streets they just are not necessary. GM and others really need to drop their obsession with SUVs, especially large ones, as it looks like most Americans have. GM please don't make anymore Hummer vaiations. The consumer looking for a large SUV built to substandard quality already has more than enough choices today.
Ten years ago they would have been relavent, but now with rising gas prices and even more crowded streets they just are not necessary. GM and others really need to drop their obsession with SUVs, especially large ones, as it looks like most Americans have. GM please don't make anymore Hummer vaiations. The consumer looking for a large SUV built to substandard quality already has more than enough choices today.
1 in every 4 cars (26%) is now an SUV or pickup truck, and that number is only increasing as new vehicles hit the market like the H3, Ford Escape Hybrid, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, etc..
This GM Employee discount deal doesnt help either. Now those families that would have bought the Honda Minivan, can now go and buy a Yukon.
07-16-05, 07:40 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by Order66
My main beef with the baby Hummers and new Range Rovers are that they are basically a decade too late to market.
Ten years ago they would have been relavent, but now with rising gas prices and even more crowded streets they just are not necessary. GM and others really need to drop their obsession with SUVs, especially large ones, as it looks like most Americans have. GM please don't make anymore Hummer vaiations. The consumer looking for a large SUV built to substandard quality already has more than enough choices today.
Ten years ago they would have been relavent, but now with rising gas prices and even more crowded streets they just are not necessary. GM and others really need to drop their obsession with SUVs, especially large ones, as it looks like most Americans have. GM please don't make anymore Hummer vaiations. The consumer looking for a large SUV built to substandard quality already has more than enough choices today.
Yep, fine way of thinking. SUV's are here to stay, a lot of people love 'em/need them.
P.S. I see you blaming GM for their SUV's, I suppose you want Lexus to stop manufacturing their SUV's aswell? The LX 470 gets comparable mileage to the 2006 H1 Alpha, atleast the H1 is a diesel so alternative fuel is an option (ie. BioDiesel)...
07-16-05, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DriveOne
If your solution to rising gas prices is for companies to stop manufacturing SUV's, then I suppose your solution to destroying ultra-contagious diseases is to kill all people with them, instead of finding medicines to cure them?
Yep, fine way of thinking. SUV's are here to stay, a lot of people love 'em/need them.
P.S. I see you blaming GM for their SUV's, I suppose you want Lexus to stop manufacturing their SUV's aswell? The LX 470 gets comparable mileage to the 2006 H1 Alpha, atleast the H1 is a diesel so alternative fuel is an option (ie. BioDiesel)...
Yep, fine way of thinking. SUV's are here to stay, a lot of people love 'em/need them.
P.S. I see you blaming GM for their SUV's, I suppose you want Lexus to stop manufacturing their SUV's aswell? The LX 470 gets comparable mileage to the 2006 H1 Alpha, atleast the H1 is a diesel so alternative fuel is an option (ie. BioDiesel)...
I am not saying large SUVs are bad, but trendy vehicles driven by those not using their main selling point should make better choices. If you don't need a vehicle that goes off road, has a high tow rating, or holds several passengers why buy one? Those that truly need one have every right to own one however.
If there were only a few Americans driving big SUVs they could be 30 feet long and get 8 miles per gallon. The problem arises from the popularity of the vehicles. If GM and others want to use platform sharing, parts bin raiding, and evolutionary changes to sell large SUVs that's their call. I just sure as hell am not going to get excited by them.
07-17-05, 10:34 AM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by DriveOne
If GM is whoring the Hummer division, what do you call what Toyota is doing with the Lexus division?
I don't think you have to worry, Lexus will probably release one before Hummer does, so you can stay within your line.
Still is. Anyone who's driven any of the Hummer's off road has no doubts about it.
Studies show that people who make comments like this do so because they themselves have a problem with their manhood.
It's alright man she'll love you for your mind...
...wait a minute, after reading this part, I'll have to retract that last comment...
I don't think you have to worry, Lexus will probably release one before Hummer does, so you can stay within your line.
Still is. Anyone who's driven any of the Hummer's off road has no doubts about it.
Studies show that people who make comments like this do so because they themselves have a problem with their manhood.
It's alright man she'll love you for your mind...
...wait a minute, after reading this part, I'll have to retract that last comment...
you remind me of someone
Nt2shabby
keep up the good work
07-17-05, 10:45 AM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
You guys, in your arguments about SUV's both pro and con, should remember that one of the main reasons large SUV's are so popular now is that the CAFE gas mileage regulations that came out 25-30 years ago essentially drove a lot the big full-framed CARS out of the market, so that many people instead turned first to full-size V8 vans and then later to full-frame truck-based SUV's and trucks as towing and load-carrying options. The really big GM cars went out in 1977, Fords hung on till about 1979-80, and Chryslers about the same time. Yes, the Ford Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car are still in production...but they would be considered mid-sized by 1960's/70's standards.....as would be the "big" GM rear-drivers that went out in 1996. Yes, minivans can move people efficiently but the car-based ones are generally not good for towing...and many potential buyers are afraid of the so-called "stigma" ( undeserved, I might add ) attached to buying them....one more piece of automotive nonsense.
If we are serious about people giving up big SUV's, we're going to have to bring back the option they had years ago and lost....bigger CARS.
If we are serious about people giving up big SUV's, we're going to have to bring back the option they had years ago and lost....bigger CARS.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-17-05 at 10:51 AM.
07-17-05, 01:16 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by GTFM
you remind me of someone
Nt2shabby
keep up the good work
Nt2shabby
keep up the good work
And you can't give a single reply to any of my Q's?
Amazing, just as I thought, rear-end flow.
Last edited by DriveOne; 07-17-05 at 01:24 PM.
07-17-05, 01:36 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Order66
I don't have a problem with the Lexus LX or Toyota Landcruiser. Although they do not have good gas mileage, they are produced in far fewer numbers than most of GM and Ford's big SUVs. Also, Toyota's SUVs are built to a higher quality level and not using the disposable mindset that the domestics have. A 7 year old Landcruiser still offers a rewarding ownership experience; a 7 year old Escalade only offers an excercise in uncomfortable frustration.
I am not saying large SUVs are bad, but trendy vehicles driven by those not using their main selling point should make better choices. If you don't need a vehicle that goes off road, has a high tow rating, or holds several passengers why buy one? Those that truly need one have every right to own one however.
If there were only a few Americans driving big SUVs they could be 30 feet long and get 8 miles per gallon. The problem arises from the popularity of the vehicles. If GM and others want to use platform sharing, parts bin raiding, and evolutionary changes to sell large SUVs that's their call. I just sure as hell am not going to get excited by them.
I am not saying large SUVs are bad, but trendy vehicles driven by those not using their main selling point should make better choices. If you don't need a vehicle that goes off road, has a high tow rating, or holds several passengers why buy one? Those that truly need one have every right to own one however.
If there were only a few Americans driving big SUVs they could be 30 feet long and get 8 miles per gallon. The problem arises from the popularity of the vehicles. If GM and others want to use platform sharing, parts bin raiding, and evolutionary changes to sell large SUVs that's their call. I just sure as hell am not going to get excited by them.
Does Lexus not share platforms and parts with Toyota's? Of course they do. I don't see your point...
07-17-05, 01:39 PM
#55
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Im not sure how I feel about the H3 only that I wouldnt want one. One word that came up to mind was..
UNDERPOWERED!!! and below average fuel consumption which well frankly I think is related to the underpowered categories of it!
Im sure this suv is an capable off roader which I have to respect, but this thing even the quickest 5 speed can not get out of 18 second ets to save its life, which leads me to believe that it would be a factor why that vortec 3.5 liter would get such fuel mileage its overwhelmed with a vehicle that is much to heavy for the colorado designed power plant. An underpowered vehicle would naturally prompt your average user to use more throttle to keep with flow of traffic. Same reason why the dismally paired plymouth breeze sohc 2.0L of years ago also got such substandard fuel mileage. (another 18 second porkster, hint 3200+ lbs and a 130 hp neon engine does not mix!)
GM should of had a turbodiesel 6 or 5 cylinder in place of the current motor ala chryslers jeep liberty. It would given the vehicle much better performance and better fuel mileage to begin, and would of stayed true to its hummer roots, imo no Hummer labeled vehicle should be gas powered, period! Thats right the H2 should be powered by a duramax not the 6 liter vortech!
Even if they messed this up, I still do not comprehend why they gave this suv the colorado engine when its chevy and gmc siblings do not come with anything less then a 275 hp 4.2 liter inline 6 and can be equiped with an up to 295 hp 5.3 liter vortech.
UNDERPOWERED!!! and below average fuel consumption which well frankly I think is related to the underpowered categories of it!
Im sure this suv is an capable off roader which I have to respect, but this thing even the quickest 5 speed can not get out of 18 second ets to save its life, which leads me to believe that it would be a factor why that vortec 3.5 liter would get such fuel mileage its overwhelmed with a vehicle that is much to heavy for the colorado designed power plant. An underpowered vehicle would naturally prompt your average user to use more throttle to keep with flow of traffic. Same reason why the dismally paired plymouth breeze sohc 2.0L of years ago also got such substandard fuel mileage. (another 18 second porkster, hint 3200+ lbs and a 130 hp neon engine does not mix!)
GM should of had a turbodiesel 6 or 5 cylinder in place of the current motor ala chryslers jeep liberty. It would given the vehicle much better performance and better fuel mileage to begin, and would of stayed true to its hummer roots, imo no Hummer labeled vehicle should be gas powered, period! Thats right the H2 should be powered by a duramax not the 6 liter vortech!
Even if they messed this up, I still do not comprehend why they gave this suv the colorado engine when its chevy and gmc siblings do not come with anything less then a 275 hp 4.2 liter inline 6 and can be equiped with an up to 295 hp 5.3 liter vortech.
07-17-05, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DriveOne
You're all over the map. You're blaming GM for what people do with their vehicles. That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Same mentality as the people suing McDonalds for them being obese.
Does Lexus not share platforms and parts with Toyota's? Of course they do. I don't see your point...
Does Lexus not share platforms and parts with Toyota's? Of course they do. I don't see your point...
I respect that you admire your H3 and I am glad you are satisfied with it. I just don't understand its point much in the same way you don't seem to understand most SUV owners don't use the "S" and "U" of their name.
Toyota of course does make use of platform sharing. The Lexus ES330 is so good because of the strength of its Toyota Camry sibling and likewise with the LX470/Landcruiser. The fact that the H3 shares much with the Colorado only serves to its detriment.
I bet after the GM employee discount sale ends, a marketing move which highlights the desperation of the company, thier large SUV sales will again flatline and begin a decline with only short-lived upswings when new models debut.
07-18-05, 06:43 AM
#57
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by DriveOne
We all know how misinformed car mags can be. Many times they miss the point of a vehicle, and flat out give incorrect info. Car mags in my opinion are worth as much as they cost. The H1 was never meant to be a sports car, yet that's how most car mags review it as.
I have no problems with the I5, drives smooth and has great power. Honestly don't see how anyone who's driven the H3 (Pay close attention here, DRIVEN, not just read about it) can say it lacks power. It's not a sports car, never will be, nor should it be.
Again, sit in one. It didn't win best interior for nothing.
I've seen quite a few derogatory comments towards Hummer owners made in this thread alone. in my book that falls in the "hate" category. Really doesn't matter, there will always be people who smear manure and those who work with facts. I've checked out some 360 views of the Lexus GX interior. Honestly my ebony leather H3 is levels above in looks in my opinion. I won't form any opions on comfort from pics alone.
AMG does STILL make the H1, and the H2 in fact. GM owns the name and markets it, shares profits. I've driven an H1, it's really not perfect for city/everyday driving. It's a specialty vehicle, that's why the H2 and more specifically the H3 are perfect vehicles to grow the brand for a wider audience. I cannot see how anyone can say that the H2 and H3 are (as so eloquently stated above) "bastardizations" of the original Hummer. What do you want? An H1 at a pricetag of $30K? Get real. GM has designed the H3 to almost indentical off-roading spec as the H2 (and in some cases better, IE. water fording), which is almost as good the big papa. Anyone who knocks down the H2 and H3 for the capabilities is speaking out of their rear end. Drive one, then talk. Opinions on styling are irrelevant. Everyone has their own taste. I personally cannot stand the unimaginative look of the Lexus SUV's. Bland, looks like any other SUV, but someone else might love it.
BTW, since Hummer is a brand, and according to you the H1 is the REAL Hummer, what's the REAL ferrari? What's a REAL lambo? Hell, what's the REAL Lexus?
All Hummers are real, they're all capable vehicles and hold up to what the Hummer name stands for.
you too, cheers.
I have no problems with the I5, drives smooth and has great power. Honestly don't see how anyone who's driven the H3 (Pay close attention here, DRIVEN, not just read about it) can say it lacks power. It's not a sports car, never will be, nor should it be.
Again, sit in one. It didn't win best interior for nothing.
I've seen quite a few derogatory comments towards Hummer owners made in this thread alone. in my book that falls in the "hate" category. Really doesn't matter, there will always be people who smear manure and those who work with facts. I've checked out some 360 views of the Lexus GX interior. Honestly my ebony leather H3 is levels above in looks in my opinion. I won't form any opions on comfort from pics alone.
AMG does STILL make the H1, and the H2 in fact. GM owns the name and markets it, shares profits. I've driven an H1, it's really not perfect for city/everyday driving. It's a specialty vehicle, that's why the H2 and more specifically the H3 are perfect vehicles to grow the brand for a wider audience. I cannot see how anyone can say that the H2 and H3 are (as so eloquently stated above) "bastardizations" of the original Hummer. What do you want? An H1 at a pricetag of $30K? Get real. GM has designed the H3 to almost indentical off-roading spec as the H2 (and in some cases better, IE. water fording), which is almost as good the big papa. Anyone who knocks down the H2 and H3 for the capabilities is speaking out of their rear end. Drive one, then talk. Opinions on styling are irrelevant. Everyone has their own taste. I personally cannot stand the unimaginative look of the Lexus SUV's. Bland, looks like any other SUV, but someone else might love it.
BTW, since Hummer is a brand, and according to you the H1 is the REAL Hummer, what's the REAL ferrari? What's a REAL lambo? Hell, what's the REAL Lexus?
All Hummers are real, they're all capable vehicles and hold up to what the Hummer name stands for.
you too, cheers.
In answer to the last question, the "real" Ferrari/Lambo/Lexus is ANY of them, since they are not badge-engineered versions of existing vehicles (tho I concede that, given the number of changes GM has made to the Colorado platform, "badge engineering" may not quite apply). And yes, I know Lexus is/was marqued as Toyota in Japan. But with the exception of the old ES250 and the LX series, Lexus models were designed as such.
(Underlying thought, tho: with the larger auto mfgrs buying up smaller, generally upscale, brands, how much model sharing will be going on in 20 years??)
07-18-05, 07:24 AM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by mooretorque
Well, I've certainly been spanked. Well defended, DriveOne.
But with the exception of the old ES250 and the LX series, Lexus models were designed as such.
But with the exception of the old ES250 and the LX series, Lexus models were designed as such.
07-18-05, 09:00 AM
#59
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by LexSC888
Wasnt the ES250 based off of the Toyota Cressida?
The Cressida was Toyota's "big" car (in the US) at the time.
So the Cressida was like the Avalon of it's time i suppose.