One Man's Observation: GS vs. M35/45 vs. RL
08-23-05, 05:31 PM
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One Man's Observation: GS vs. M35/45 vs. RL
I just got back from a 4-day weekend in L.A. As many of us know, southern California is a bellweather and trendsetter for the rest of the nation, especially when it comes to automobiles. Cars that are hot there generally become hot elsewhere in the country, even if it takes many months for the trend to move.
Whatever you want to make of it, I saw new RL's on the road like they'd been on sale for years. Everywhere I looked there was another new RL, in all different colors. Maybe it's only because Acura's HQ is there, but the new RL was literally all over the roads.
I saw a handful of new GS's. Not nearly as many as RL's, but enough to catch my eye. I only saw one GS430, and none of the GS300's were AWD, but that's to be expected in sunny SoCal. The GS is a bit more pricey and was released a few months later than the RL, so I guess that could explain the lower numbers.
I did not see a single M35/45. NOT ONE. I realize that my observations only make for one data point, and it was both a limited time span and a limited set of places I was looking, but given the number of other new Japanese luxury sport sedans I saw it was a bit suprising for me to not spot a single new Infiniti M.
Is this a sign of the future for these cars. Will one man's observations over a single weekend translate into nationwide long-term sales for these vehicles. Probably not, I admit, but I must also say that if I was a Nissan executive I would have been quite upset, disappointed, and worried...
Whatever you want to make of it, I saw new RL's on the road like they'd been on sale for years. Everywhere I looked there was another new RL, in all different colors. Maybe it's only because Acura's HQ is there, but the new RL was literally all over the roads.
I saw a handful of new GS's. Not nearly as many as RL's, but enough to catch my eye. I only saw one GS430, and none of the GS300's were AWD, but that's to be expected in sunny SoCal. The GS is a bit more pricey and was released a few months later than the RL, so I guess that could explain the lower numbers.
I did not see a single M35/45. NOT ONE. I realize that my observations only make for one data point, and it was both a limited time span and a limited set of places I was looking, but given the number of other new Japanese luxury sport sedans I saw it was a bit suprising for me to not spot a single new Infiniti M.
Is this a sign of the future for these cars. Will one man's observations over a single weekend translate into nationwide long-term sales for these vehicles. Probably not, I admit, but I must also say that if I was a Nissan executive I would have been quite upset, disappointed, and worried...
08-23-05, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman
I just got back from a 4-day weekend in L.A. As many of us know, southern California is a bellweather and trendsetter for the rest of the nation, especially when it comes to automobiles. Cars that are hot there generally become hot elsewhere in the country, even if it takes many months for the trend to move.
Whatever you want to make of it, I saw new RL's on the road like they'd been on sale for years. Everywhere I looked there was another new RL, in all different colors. Maybe it's only because Acura's HQ is there, but the new RL was literally all over the roads.
I saw a handful of new GS's. Not nearly as many as RL's, but enough to catch my eye. I only saw one GS430, and none of the GS300's were AWD, but that's to be expected in sunny SoCal. The GS is a bit more pricey and was released a few months later than the RL, so I guess that could explain the lower numbers.
I did not see a single M35/45. NOT ONE. I realize that my observations only make for one data point, and it was both a limited time span and a limited set of places I was looking, but given the number of other new Japanese luxury sport sedans I saw it was a bit suprising for me to not spot a single new Infiniti M.
Is this a sign of the future for these cars. Will one man's observations over a single weekend translate into nationwide long-term sales for these vehicles. Probably not, I admit, but I must also say that if I was a Nissan executive I would have been quite upset, disappointed, and worried...
Whatever you want to make of it, I saw new RL's on the road like they'd been on sale for years. Everywhere I looked there was another new RL, in all different colors. Maybe it's only because Acura's HQ is there, but the new RL was literally all over the roads.
I saw a handful of new GS's. Not nearly as many as RL's, but enough to catch my eye. I only saw one GS430, and none of the GS300's were AWD, but that's to be expected in sunny SoCal. The GS is a bit more pricey and was released a few months later than the RL, so I guess that could explain the lower numbers.
I did not see a single M35/45. NOT ONE. I realize that my observations only make for one data point, and it was both a limited time span and a limited set of places I was looking, but given the number of other new Japanese luxury sport sedans I saw it was a bit suprising for me to not spot a single new Infiniti M.
Is this a sign of the future for these cars. Will one man's observations over a single weekend translate into nationwide long-term sales for these vehicles. Probably not, I admit, but I must also say that if I was a Nissan executive I would have been quite upset, disappointed, and worried...
Infiniti is turning it around clearly so its a little to much to ask for it to be popular with people concerned with panache. The G35c is a fabulous looking car and in the 3+ years its been sold, I have never had a non-car friend/associate bring the car up, or ANY Infiniti. But God forbid a new Lexus, BMW, Benz comes out, I get questions asked all the time by non-car people.
Audi has the same problem. It just can't get in the AMerican publics minds, even as their cars have NEVER been better. They look great, are luxurious and now perform and the people just rarely talk about Audi.
I've said it many times, it seems the luxury market in America has room for 3 top players, BMW, Benz and Lexus. Everything else after that is an afterthought with the general public.
08-23-05, 05:47 PM
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As for Atlanta, I was seeing way more RLs than GS/Ms but it seems the GS has caught on already, I see them now going to the mall, driving around etc. The M, I rarely see. Looking at sales figures for these Japanese sedans, the GS leads, followed by the M and the RL is WAY behind.
The RL has been sold since Nov. 2004 so maybe that has some to do with it.
The RL has been sold since Nov. 2004 so maybe that has some to do with it.
08-23-05, 05:53 PM
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The final observation that REALLY drives home Iceman's point, look at the modded cars on the net. If you go to each respective website, its RARE to see a modded RL or M. I am talking about basic things like upgraded wheels.
You look in our 3GS forum and its loaded with modded cars already with the few parts available.
Also looking at the car shows, people and companies are bringing the 3GS to car shows and even winning. I have yet to see 1 RL or M owner enter a car show. Never seen any in a magazine or on the net.
I am sure it will happen eventually, but the fact is, the 3GS is there already.
Finally, I fully expect the GS 450h to be a hit with celebrities and the rich and famous like the RX 400h has been already.
Its funny how people love to complain Lexus is boring/bland/for geezers but look around and since Lexus inception, its been a HIT with the trendy crowd.
The easiest way to tell is listen to hip-hop or watch music videos. Acura used to be metioned with the Legend, now, forget about it. Infiniti has never hit it off with the hip-hop community.. Lexus, its spoken all over in hip-hop. From the ES in an early Jay-Z video, to the "dopeman" 1GS, to the SC 300/400 and LS 400, to the 2GS "frogeye" in even movies and the LX/SC etc taking to to another level, Lexus is a hit with the fashionable consumer.
You look in our 3GS forum and its loaded with modded cars already with the few parts available.
Also looking at the car shows, people and companies are bringing the 3GS to car shows and even winning. I have yet to see 1 RL or M owner enter a car show. Never seen any in a magazine or on the net.
I am sure it will happen eventually, but the fact is, the 3GS is there already.
Finally, I fully expect the GS 450h to be a hit with celebrities and the rich and famous like the RX 400h has been already.
Its funny how people love to complain Lexus is boring/bland/for geezers but look around and since Lexus inception, its been a HIT with the trendy crowd.
The easiest way to tell is listen to hip-hop or watch music videos. Acura used to be metioned with the Legend, now, forget about it. Infiniti has never hit it off with the hip-hop community.. Lexus, its spoken all over in hip-hop. From the ES in an early Jay-Z video, to the "dopeman" 1GS, to the SC 300/400 and LS 400, to the 2GS "frogeye" in even movies and the LX/SC etc taking to to another level, Lexus is a hit with the fashionable consumer.
08-23-05, 07:57 PM
#6
Here in SoCal, but not close to Torrance or other headquarters, I've seen #1) new GS (mostly 300, a handlul of 430's, #2) RL-M35/45 tie. The latter are incredibly rare. And if I do see one of those cars, I will see a new GS before seeing another one of those.
08-24-05, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Its funny how people love to complain Lexus is boring/bland/for geezers but look around and since Lexus inception, its been a HIT with the trendy crowd.
The easiest way to tell is listen to hip-hop or watch music videos. Acura used to be metioned with the Legend, now, forget about it. Infiniti has never hit it off with the hip-hop community.. Lexus, its spoken all over in hip-hop. From the ES in an early Jay-Z video, to the "dopeman" 1GS, to the SC 300/400 and LS 400, to the 2GS "frogeye" in even movies and the LX/SC etc taking to to another level, Lexus is a hit with the fashionable consumer.
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08-24-05, 02:35 PM
#8
Originally Posted by LexLaw
You could not have been more on point than that. In America, as is also the case in other markets there is only room for 3 big players and we all know who they are. All for different reasons. Lexus as you stated is the most referenced next to MB in Hip Hop culture. Hip Hop culture sets the trend for urban and non urban culture in America if not the world. Slang, fashion, car trends or anything else you can market. Whether your a fan of its music or not this cannot be ignored. Chrysler can't thank Hip Hop enough for its recent resurgance with its popularity. (peep the Snoop/Iacocca ads) And as you you stated Acura is dead among urban youth since it's Legend/Vigor series became RL and TL respectively.
Back on topic. I often wonder why the RL doesn't get more love. It's very capable. Nicely appointed. Stylish and reasonably priced. Only rear wheel drive is missing. What gives?
08-24-05, 02:42 PM
#9
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About a month ago I took a trip up to the east coast. We stopped off at the Marriot in Atlanta went up through to the Virginia Bay Bridge tunnel to Chincoteegue, and around Delaware/Maryland/New Jersey. I saw a white R34 Skyline GTR near Atlanta, a Rolls Royce on the way, and a Masserati Quatroporte at a golf course in Delaware. Of the three cars listed I saw the most RLs on the way and on the east coast and the car is growing on me especially that dark grey color and the interior is just about perfection. I was temped to buy but they are way more then I should spend. I have only seen maybe 4 or 5 in Alabama. I saw a few new GS's but not as many as I would have expected with the good sales figures. Most were white but I did see a black one that looked very good. I have only seen 2 or 3 GS in Alabama. As far as Infiniti M's I think I only saw 1 the whole time I was there on the road which was surprising considering all the good reviews they are getting. It was a blue M35 without the sport wheels and did not look all that great, not nearly as good looking as the dark grey and black M45's with sport wheels I have seen at dealerships. I guess since the RL has been out a while longer and has standard AWD it is pretty popular on the east coast.
On the trip I was shocked at how many people were talking on cell phones while driving, when we drove near and through Atlanta there were alot more people talking on cell phones then who weren't, it almost seemed it was required there. On the trip you could pretty much tell who was on their cell phone because they would be weaving, driving slower then normal staying in the passing lane, and often cut you off or almost hit you. I know alot people talk and drive on cell phones but it was crazy just to see that many people doing it.
On the trip I was shocked at how many people were talking on cell phones while driving, when we drove near and through Atlanta there were alot more people talking on cell phones then who weren't, it almost seemed it was required there. On the trip you could pretty much tell who was on their cell phone because they would be weaving, driving slower then normal staying in the passing lane, and often cut you off or almost hit you. I know alot people talk and drive on cell phones but it was crazy just to see that many people doing it.
08-24-05, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by reggiek
I was shocked when I heard Snoopdog's voice on a Chrysler commercial...I haven't seen it yet but I'm sure I heard his voice. Off topic a bit. Now that hip-hop has the country's attention, I wish more of the artists would use their influence more positively on our young people.
Back on topic. I often wonder why the RL doesn't get more love. It's very capable. Nicely appointed. Stylish and reasonably priced. Only rear wheel drive is missing. What gives?
Back on topic. I often wonder why the RL doesn't get more love. It's very capable. Nicely appointed. Stylish and reasonably priced. Only rear wheel drive is missing. What gives?
As for Acura and it's woes. People who buy luxury cars want rear wheel drive. Also Acura has failed to appeal to any specific target group (in a general sense). Old men still love Caddy/Benz and Lexus. Young guys want BMW, Lexus and Benz (Infiniti and Acura are generally afterthoughts with the exception of G35s) I have yet to meet any guys (friends schoolmates, associates or hip hop artists) say I wanna cop that new Ac. It's something I just don't hear. maybe 10 yrs ago but definitely not now. While I do like the current RL for various reasons. There literally 30 other cars that I'd buy befor buying one. And part of it is because Acura has no sex appeal.
08-24-05, 03:51 PM
#11
Originally Posted by LexLaw
And as you you stated Acura is dead among urban youth since it's Legend/Vigor series became RL and TL respectively.
08-24-05, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by enigma354
Seems ironic to me, since Acura seemed to be aping other manufacturers such as Lexus with their 2-letter titles (LS, GS)...but 'Legend' and 'Vigor' carry more meaning? Or rhyming capability? I guess "Lexus" is very 'rhymable'...
My theory on why Legends and Vigors and to a lesser extent Infinitis Qs and J30s were very popular at one point is that at that time they were come up money affordable with a touch and look of luxury. Now that the "game" has changed and cats are making/seeing more money than ever before they have higher goals if you will. MB, Lex and Bimmers were always respected in the hood but now they are more attainable than they were at one time. An Acura just doesn't cut it anymore. They are held in the same regard as a Honda or Nissan. They are not even relevant in the eyes of many youth Black, White or otherwise.
08-24-05, 04:06 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Iceman
I just got back from a 4-day weekend in L.A. As many of us know, southern California is a bellweather and trendsetter for the rest of the nation, especially when it comes to automobiles. Cars that are hot there generally become hot elsewhere in the country, even if it takes many months for the trend to move.
Whatever you want to make of it, I saw new RL's on the road like they'd been on sale for years. Everywhere I looked there was another new RL, in all different colors. Maybe it's only because Acura's HQ is there, but the new RL was literally all over the roads.
I saw a handful of new GS's. Not nearly as many as RL's, but enough to catch my eye. I only saw one GS430, and none of the GS300's were AWD, but that's to be expected in sunny SoCal. The GS is a bit more pricey and was released a few months later than the RL, so I guess that could explain the lower numbers.
I did not see a single M35/45. NOT ONE. I realize that my observations only make for one data point, and it was both a limited time span and a limited set of places I was looking, but given the number of other new Japanese luxury sport sedans I saw it was a bit suprising for me to not spot a single new Infiniti M.
Is this a sign of the future for these cars. Will one man's observations over a single weekend translate into nationwide long-term sales for these vehicles. Probably not, I admit, but I must also say that if I was a Nissan executive I would have been quite upset, disappointed, and worried...
Whatever you want to make of it, I saw new RL's on the road like they'd been on sale for years. Everywhere I looked there was another new RL, in all different colors. Maybe it's only because Acura's HQ is there, but the new RL was literally all over the roads.
I saw a handful of new GS's. Not nearly as many as RL's, but enough to catch my eye. I only saw one GS430, and none of the GS300's were AWD, but that's to be expected in sunny SoCal. The GS is a bit more pricey and was released a few months later than the RL, so I guess that could explain the lower numbers.
I did not see a single M35/45. NOT ONE. I realize that my observations only make for one data point, and it was both a limited time span and a limited set of places I was looking, but given the number of other new Japanese luxury sport sedans I saw it was a bit suprising for me to not spot a single new Infiniti M.
Is this a sign of the future for these cars. Will one man's observations over a single weekend translate into nationwide long-term sales for these vehicles. Probably not, I admit, but I must also say that if I was a Nissan executive I would have been quite upset, disappointed, and worried...
I laugh when the Infiniti fanboys come in and say how well the M is selling when NO ONE is buying it.
08-24-05, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bean
I can say the same thing. Around here I see new GSs sometimes and plenty of new RLs all over... but I've seen ONE M before and it was a M35. Those things aren't selling for crap.
I laugh when the Infiniti fanboys come in and say how well the M is selling when NO ONE is buying it.
I laugh when the Infiniti fanboys come in and say how well the M is selling when NO ONE is buying it.
08-24-05, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LexLaw
I actually like the looks of the new M....well at least the TV spots are cool. If there is indeed a problem with M sales, will there be a second facelift? or will they just pack it in? I actually thout nissan had a hit on their hands but from what you guys are saying I guess not. Come to think of it, I have only seen one on the road in the past several months and I live in NY, where we pretty much get a mix of everything on any given day.
1. Its selling over 2,500 units a month, very solid performance.
2. Its seems it will meet Nissan year end target expectations.
3. Its selling well for an Infiniti. Thing is we have no idea how the new M45 is selling to the old one since they refuse to split the two models when its time to publish sales results.
So in reality, it is selling well, but we just are not seeing it. How can anyone pass up a deal like this for a brand new redesigned car, lol.