mmarshall

The All-Road will cost more than the Subies ( 40K-plus) but have a more solid chassis, an impeccable interior ( the Subie's is almost as good ), the famous German steering feel, but......unfortunately........unreliable electronics.

Volvo also makes an AWD raised-wagon....the XC-70 Cross-Country. It is several thousand dollars less than an All-Road.
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/XC70/

If you are seriously interested in an All-Road, move quickly.....I can't verify it, but rumor has it that it may soon be dropped in the American market because of poor sales.
http://www.audiusa.com/model_home/0,...allroadquattro


If the Audi and Volvo are both too expensive.....and for any reason you don't like the Subies ( though Subaru clearly makes the best AWD in the under-$30,000 range ) here is one more possibility...the Ford Freestyle. It is similiar in concept to all of the other vehicles I've named and
is one of the FEW domestically-designed and built machines I have a high opinion of....but it won't have quite the Subaru's build quality.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/freestyle/?section=CAR

tetra7

Hey MMarshall..thanks for all your help.

Do you really think the Audi electronics are that bad? I am very familiar with the QC problems regarding MB and some BMW electronics...but Audi (maybe the owners haven't been as vocal?) The Avantes are also really good looking as well.

Btw, how do you like the all-wheel drive system in the Subi? I haven't always been the biggest fan of the viscous clutch based systems and moreso favored the mechanical gear-based Torsen. I do admit that I am unfamiliar with Subi's system and they might have perfected it.

Thanks in advance..

Lexusfreak

I agree in the long term, the Audi would make me nervous from a reliability standpoint. Same goes with Volvo (under the Ford Umbrella.......need I say more?) & their AWD is not a full time system.

MM, I hear what your saying about the more expensive 6 cyl Outbacks.......they won't be as bad when purchasing used down the road.......more than a 4 cyl or XT turbo perhaps, but still a substantial savings compared with new. Of all the Wagon possibilities, I don't think you can beat a Subaru for overall value, long term reliability & it's got probably the BEST AWD system in the biz for the money!

Good luck with your search tetra, let us know what choice you make.

jet864

Recently I have been falling further and further in love with wagons (and no, they're not made by Dodge!). Audi and Subaru IMO have the best looking wagons followed by the V70R (no other Volvos) and then the Germans.

The legacy GT IMO is the best looking wagon I've ever seen, followed by the (R)S4 avant. They honestly make more sense as they're roomy, drive like a car, can have many luxury features, are low enough to go anywhere you want to, get good mileage, and often have AWD. I guess you can get many of these things in a small SUV, but I like the lower deck height on wagons.

James

mmarshall

Audi uses pretty much the same electronics and sub-contractors that VW does. Like you say, they probably are not quite as unreliable as the M-B systems (especially the M-B brake-by-wire system, which is terrible), but I still wouldn't bet the monthly rent on them after the car has some miles on it. Studies have been done on this subject...why the electronics on many European cars are unreliable, and it has been traced in many areas to poor-quality and poorly-designed connectors that are difficult to assemble properly at the factory. Search the CL archives for more data on this...we at CL have discussed this many times...at length.

I find the Subie AWD systems to be seamless and easily the best in the under-$35-000 price range. To be honest, the Subie systems are not quite as sophisticated as, say, the systems in a $45,000 Lexus GS300 AWD or the $49,000 SHD ( Special handling) AWD in the Acura RL....but Subies don't cost that kind of money either.
To address your question .....Subaru uses 5 different types of AWD, depending on drivetrain. Manual-transmission Outbacks, Foresters, and Imprezas use the viscous-type center differential and rear LSD with a basic 50-50 split. 4-speed automatics use the "Active" system with an electronically-controlled transfer clutch and rear LSD. 5-speed automatics use what is essentially the Active system but with a planetary center-diff and viscous rear LSD. Torque split is normally 45-55. Two special systems are used that are unique to specific models. The VDC system...unique to the Outback 3.0 VDC.... uses special electronics that combine the 5-speed automatic Active AWDsystem with the car's stability control...the only U.S.-market Subaru to have this feature. And, finally....the boy-racer and Rally system, unique, of course, in the American market to the STi...the DCCD system manually driver-controlled system with adjustable torque-split front-to-rear and heavy-duty components to help withstand the abuse of aggressive driving.
Check this website out.....it will give you a lot of useful info on the various Subaru AWD systems. When it pops up, hit the box marked " AWD TECHNOLOGY"
http://www.subaru.com/shop/overview....mmand=overview

Lexusfreak

SH-AWD stands for Super Handling AWD from Acura MM, not 'Special handling' Your other comments about the subi AWD systems I agree with you 110%!

foofighter

you want one...we had an A4 Avant...and grew out of it. It would be nice to have the new A6 but the price is pretty hefty to get into well equipped.



As it appeared in tuningwerks magazine

mmarshall

Thanks...I do sometimes get that one wrong. There are so many abbreviations and letters in today's car market that it is hard to remember EVERYTHING 100% of the time...even for a guy like me who immerses himself in it almost every day. However, the intent is clear. The SH AWD system, unlike many other systems, apportions torque not only front-to-rear but side-to-side as well, in conjunction with the regular stability system. It is a very complex and sophisticated system.....and is one of the reasons why the new Acura RL, which features it, costs $50,000 in spite of only having a V6.

KneeShoe00

Get a E55 Wagon and call it a day.

- Nizhu

mmarshall

Well...yes and no. The E55 has some great engineering and will protect you very well in a crash, but it is a LOT of cash and is only slightly more reliable than other M-B products, which have some awful electronics. Frankly, I'm not sure it is worth what it costs.

mmarshall

Depends, too, where you are buying it....and what you are going to use it for. Not only is the A6 Avant significantly more expensive than the Audi All-Road and Volvo XC-70 ( and a LOT more expensive than an Outback ), but the regular A6 Avant does not have the higher ground clearance of the other cars I mentioned. This could be a hinderance in deeper snow.....but of course, if you are getting the AWD more for rain and wet roads than snow ( AWD helps a lot on wet roads, too ) then of course it doesn't matter.

foofighter

very true...clearance is an important consideration when you live in those areas.