Acura RL, the good and the bad
09-15-05, 05:20 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by jaydunn
Maybe I missed something and someone has mentioned this already but Acura just put out a $2500 cash to dealer incentive to move the RL. Now anybody can get one for $41, 500. As a former Acura customer I got my notice in the mail Monday. I wouldn't dream of paying 50k for this car but at 41.5 it's tempting.
And seems in the other thread, no V-8 is coming, so buyers today don't have to worry about a larger engine RL coming.
09-15-05, 05:20 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by trd4me
Hey, I'm actually one of the few who have an RL, so I figure I'd throw in my $.02. About a month ago, I was in the market for a luxury sedan w/ AWD. Something that I could take up the mountains on a snowy day, and still be in the lap of luxury. My choices came down to the A6, M35x, and RL. After reading through multiple car comparisons, and test driving them, I ended up getting the RL based on three words: Comparably equipped price. Admittingly, the RL didn't blow my socks off, but when I was pricing cars, the RL was simply more bang for my buck in terms of creature comfort content. I love gidgets and gadgets. I'm a technology fiend at heart. Anyhow, since I wasn't completely sold, I ended up leasing the car. The negotiated cap. cost came to $41,500 with zero down, monthly payments being $608 (taxes included) for a 15k mi/3 year lease. 1500 miles later, I'm still happy with the choice I made. If I wasn't, I could still easily get rid of it in 3 years.
To make a long story short, the answer is a whopping "Yes, I chose the RL because of its price." And guess what? Both of the two dealers in my city were willing to do this deal. In the long run, people buy what they want. Despite these deals to be had, I haven't seen too many RL's roaming the roads in my area. But that's okay, as it brings a big grin to my face knowing that I'm one of the few driving this car, instead of all the TL's that I see out on the road.
To make a long story short, the answer is a whopping "Yes, I chose the RL because of its price." And guess what? Both of the two dealers in my city were willing to do this deal. In the long run, people buy what they want. Despite these deals to be had, I haven't seen too many RL's roaming the roads in my area. But that's okay, as it brings a big grin to my face knowing that I'm one of the few driving this car, instead of all the TL's that I see out on the road.
09-15-05, 06:09 PM
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I think the RL is a very attractive when seen in person. The fact that not everyone is buying one is attractive in its own right.
With so many companies trying to make their offerings more "sporty", the new RL is one of the few to actually use carbon fiber for something other than decorative trim (carbon fiber-reinforced propeller shaft).
I am definately thinking about an '06, especially at a sub $49,000 price point.
With so many companies trying to make their offerings more "sporty", the new RL is one of the few to actually use carbon fiber for something other than decorative trim (carbon fiber-reinforced propeller shaft).
I am definately thinking about an '06, especially at a sub $49,000 price point.
09-15-05, 06:46 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Order66
I think the RL is a very attractive when seen in person. The fact that not everyone is buying one is attractive in its own right.
With so many companies trying to make their offerings more "sporty", the new RL is one of the few to actually use carbon fiber for something other than decorative trim (carbon fiber-reinforced propeller shaft).
I am definately thinking about an '06, especially at a sub $49,000 price point.
With so many companies trying to make their offerings more "sporty", the new RL is one of the few to actually use carbon fiber for something other than decorative trim (carbon fiber-reinforced propeller shaft).
I am definately thinking about an '06, especially at a sub $49,000 price point.
09-15-05, 06:55 PM
#35
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The Acura dealers around here are selling new RL's for around $46,700 and they are selling pretty good which is still a great deal for the car in my opinion.
I was also a little dissapointed when I heard the price was going to be around $50,000.00 and they would not offer a v-8 option because I did not think it would be too much more then a TL which is great car at a great price. I was kind of thinking around 39-44 considering it would only have a v-6, was not much larger then the TL, and was somewhat based off of a Accord platform. The main price increase I figured would only be from it having an advanced AWD system, nicer materials like real wood, more standard options like NAV etc, and maybe a slight premium for its class. After reading all the good reviews about the car and how it was chosen over cars costing much more then I started thinking it probrably was priced fair. All the reviews I have read placed the new RL above the new GS and most other cars in its class. The Infiniti M and occasionally the 5 series are usaully the only cars that the reviewers/magazines seem to prefer to the RL and that is mainly due to their sportier communication/driving and powerful v-8's. After sitting in the new RL it does feel and look like a $50,000 car or at least as good if not better then its competition that is often priced much higher when equipted the same. Aside from the Audi A-8 and the new Bently Continental Flying Spur sedan the new RL is my favorite 4 door sedan interior with the new GS close behind.
The main reason that dealers are lowering RL prices from 49,900 is because there is newer competition since it was first released and some of the other makes base models are priced much lower then 50K. Since Acura does not sell stripped or base RL's for lower prices they can't compete price wise with base or lightly optioned GS300s and M35s which make up a large percentage of those cars that are sold. I believe you can get a base M35 slightly below 40K and a base GS300 a little over 40K now so Acura has to consider that if they want to stay competitive pricewise. The RL did sell well for Acura when it was first released at 50K but as time goes on and newer competition comes out with lower prices Acura dealers have to respond. The older RL has also not had a very big fan base nor has been well received by reviewers since it replaced the Acura Legend. Although the last RL was a very well made high quality comfortable car it had lost much of its edge and became a much softer less desireble car then the Legend. When the TL redesign came out in 99 it had more power and all the features of the RL and was priced under 30K where the RL was around 40K and many people thought the sportier TL was the better buy. The 2nd Gen Lexus GS was more well liked by consumers and reviewers so it is understandable the new GS would get alot of repeat buyers. Another reason the RL may not be selling as well as some of its competition or in lower numbers then before is because you can only get an RL one way where with its competion you have a choice of different sized engines and also if you want AWD or not. Not all people want or need AWD and that may hurt some RL sales. I have seen more new RL's on the road here in Alabama and on the east coast then the new GS and M but the new RL has been out longer. People seem to love the car and do not regret what they paid. I hope in the future there will be more powertrain options for the RL like a v-8 and just RWD but I do like how all Acuras come loaded with little if any options and still undercut the price of their competion when they are similiarly equipted.
I have never heard of a new RL going for below 43.5 but if you could get one at that price you are getting a awsome deal and a hell of alot of car for the money. Even at 44-45K it is still a great deal. I think Acura can sell $40,000+ cars and people feel they are worth their price, many feel they get much more car for the money. Acura may have chose to focus on vehicles below 50K(besides the NSX) with the majority below 40K but that is changing and they will be selling larger higher priced vehicles in the future which I am sure will be great just like their less expensive vehicles.
I was also a little dissapointed when I heard the price was going to be around $50,000.00 and they would not offer a v-8 option because I did not think it would be too much more then a TL which is great car at a great price. I was kind of thinking around 39-44 considering it would only have a v-6, was not much larger then the TL, and was somewhat based off of a Accord platform. The main price increase I figured would only be from it having an advanced AWD system, nicer materials like real wood, more standard options like NAV etc, and maybe a slight premium for its class. After reading all the good reviews about the car and how it was chosen over cars costing much more then I started thinking it probrably was priced fair. All the reviews I have read placed the new RL above the new GS and most other cars in its class. The Infiniti M and occasionally the 5 series are usaully the only cars that the reviewers/magazines seem to prefer to the RL and that is mainly due to their sportier communication/driving and powerful v-8's. After sitting in the new RL it does feel and look like a $50,000 car or at least as good if not better then its competition that is often priced much higher when equipted the same. Aside from the Audi A-8 and the new Bently Continental Flying Spur sedan the new RL is my favorite 4 door sedan interior with the new GS close behind.
The main reason that dealers are lowering RL prices from 49,900 is because there is newer competition since it was first released and some of the other makes base models are priced much lower then 50K. Since Acura does not sell stripped or base RL's for lower prices they can't compete price wise with base or lightly optioned GS300s and M35s which make up a large percentage of those cars that are sold. I believe you can get a base M35 slightly below 40K and a base GS300 a little over 40K now so Acura has to consider that if they want to stay competitive pricewise. The RL did sell well for Acura when it was first released at 50K but as time goes on and newer competition comes out with lower prices Acura dealers have to respond. The older RL has also not had a very big fan base nor has been well received by reviewers since it replaced the Acura Legend. Although the last RL was a very well made high quality comfortable car it had lost much of its edge and became a much softer less desireble car then the Legend. When the TL redesign came out in 99 it had more power and all the features of the RL and was priced under 30K where the RL was around 40K and many people thought the sportier TL was the better buy. The 2nd Gen Lexus GS was more well liked by consumers and reviewers so it is understandable the new GS would get alot of repeat buyers. Another reason the RL may not be selling as well as some of its competition or in lower numbers then before is because you can only get an RL one way where with its competion you have a choice of different sized engines and also if you want AWD or not. Not all people want or need AWD and that may hurt some RL sales. I have seen more new RL's on the road here in Alabama and on the east coast then the new GS and M but the new RL has been out longer. People seem to love the car and do not regret what they paid. I hope in the future there will be more powertrain options for the RL like a v-8 and just RWD but I do like how all Acuras come loaded with little if any options and still undercut the price of their competion when they are similiarly equipted.
I have never heard of a new RL going for below 43.5 but if you could get one at that price you are getting a awsome deal and a hell of alot of car for the money. Even at 44-45K it is still a great deal. I think Acura can sell $40,000+ cars and people feel they are worth their price, many feel they get much more car for the money. Acura may have chose to focus on vehicles below 50K(besides the NSX) with the majority below 40K but that is changing and they will be selling larger higher priced vehicles in the future which I am sure will be great just like their less expensive vehicles.
09-15-05, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RON430
I will bet that the A6 and M35x were not serious competition for the RL at that price.
09-15-05, 07:17 PM
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My 2 cents...
When I see an RL on the road it just underwhelms me visually..."Was that a TL" is what I usually ask myself when I catch a glimpse of the front end in passing. "Oh, no it was an RL" is what I think after it goes by. A flagship should not generate that reaction imho. I should say, "Wow, there's the new RL!" The rear is even less distinctive/inspiring to me.
I believe the lack of inspired styling and lack of a V8 has something to do with the lack of market interest. I don't want to spend $50K on a car that visually doesn't have much more impact than a TL. If they had offered a V8 and innovative styling I think they'd be selling much better, regardless of options packages, etc...The NSX is a good example of how they did it right (at least in the beginning of that model run). People were paying way more than sticker when they first came out, and that was big bucks for an Acura at the time! I sat inside an RL and loved the cockpit...paddle shifters, everything was so nice...they should of done the exterior to match the interior, imho. But if the car doesn't look like a winner on the outside, it doesn't matter how killer it is on the inside. Unfortunate, but true at this level.
Somewhere someone said you can't compare a V6 AWD to V8 RWD's but I beg to differ because comparisons always have to be made at some level. Acura has clearly positioned itself below Lexus and Infiniti in the market place and their products always represent high value, but always just a slight bit underneath comparable cars from the other two (ignoring Euro's). Regardless, a flagship is a flagship, market position or no market position. Flagships should have V8's, or the option period.
When I see an RL on the road it just underwhelms me visually..."Was that a TL" is what I usually ask myself when I catch a glimpse of the front end in passing. "Oh, no it was an RL" is what I think after it goes by. A flagship should not generate that reaction imho. I should say, "Wow, there's the new RL!" The rear is even less distinctive/inspiring to me.
I believe the lack of inspired styling and lack of a V8 has something to do with the lack of market interest. I don't want to spend $50K on a car that visually doesn't have much more impact than a TL. If they had offered a V8 and innovative styling I think they'd be selling much better, regardless of options packages, etc...The NSX is a good example of how they did it right (at least in the beginning of that model run). People were paying way more than sticker when they first came out, and that was big bucks for an Acura at the time! I sat inside an RL and loved the cockpit...paddle shifters, everything was so nice...they should of done the exterior to match the interior, imho. But if the car doesn't look like a winner on the outside, it doesn't matter how killer it is on the inside. Unfortunate, but true at this level.
Somewhere someone said you can't compare a V6 AWD to V8 RWD's but I beg to differ because comparisons always have to be made at some level. Acura has clearly positioned itself below Lexus and Infiniti in the market place and their products always represent high value, but always just a slight bit underneath comparable cars from the other two (ignoring Euro's). Regardless, a flagship is a flagship, market position or no market position. Flagships should have V8's, or the option period.
09-15-05, 07:25 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by trd4me
Your bet is on the money. I could find no M35x or A6 equipped similarly for $41,500. It's a good and a bad thing that the RL has so many standard features. Bad: You don't get to pick your own options. Good: The options are plenty. My favorites: Nav, Bluetooth, Keyless Access, 6-disc changer w/ MP3 support, XM Radio, Tire Pressure Monitor, just to name a few.
09-16-05, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RON430
Sorry but if someone is paying more than 42.5K for an RL they are either particularly addled or are at the Den of 40 thieves Acura. It is a special pricing event from Acura, stopped by on the way home. That is why that dimwit salesman got the price he did. Maybe it is just Cali but that would be their biggest market anyway. My guess is the numbers I was quoted on the GS are about as good as you can do, that dealer beat everyone else at the time I bought mine so much so that I got on a plane and flew to San Diego to get my car. And the notion that an Acura, even an Acura spute or NSX, is in the same premium demanding territory as the europeans, well OK, I get where you come from.
So what your saying here is that anybody who pays more than invoice for the Acura RL is dumb? The same RL that has consistantly placed ahead of the Lexus GS300 which is priced higher? You want people to pay for an RL what Lexus has set the MSRP on the base GS300? The RL that has been said to have better build quality, materials, technology, etc...? Are we talking about the same car here because I'm sort of dumbfounded by your ignorance. And I never mentioned, or even hinted in the past that Acura was bringing in the same premium demand as it's European competitors so I don't know why your throwing that out there. One thing funny you might want to consider is that the 1994 Acura Legend base model cost more than the 1994 BMW 525 base model. I don't think I need to tell you how well the Legend sold though. Just some food for thought.
Originally Posted by RON430
You may find this difficult to fit into your perception but if you were to read my posts you might find that I did not make the comment about no Acura model being worth a premium. This is a minor point but you seem to value your version of certitude above actual factuality. However, I wish I had said it. The closest I came was making a comment about cars going for over sticker period, which unfortunately I have had personal experience with. When the bavarians role out a new generation, they rarely go for sticker.
Originally Posted by RON430
I can't believe anyone would pay more for list for a car either but if you don't think that happens you haven't been around cars very long. Or you have only concentrated on cars like Acuras that even when they are the newest kid on the block can't command a premium. Even Chrysler was able to get over sticker for a time on certain models.
Originally Posted by RON430
Let's tie this up for good. The point I was trying to make, and the only point I was trying to make, was that if you have class leading build quality, engine specs, design, colors, door handles, quantum all wheel drive, atomic stereo, and ball bearing ash trays, you don't end up with a factory promotion knocking 15% off the price. Period. One of the realities of autos, particularly luxury autos, is that if you build the best $50K car in the world, you will not get the entire market for $50K autos. It just doesn't happen. No one will ever get the entire market. And in my view, which I don't have to encourage you not to agree with, is that in my view, and maybe my view alone, Acura seems to realize that they do not make the finest $50K car in the world or even a competitive $50K car. So they quite sensibly decided to cut the price by 15% to a hopefully more marketable point. Please, anyone else other than AlwaysLate who feels I have somehow not been clear in that simple, and only, point please let me know and I will try to see if I can rephrase it. AlwaysLate I encourage you because you value the RL so much to go to your local dealer and make them take $50K for an RL. I feel confident that if you explain how much you value it, they could be convinced to sell it to you at or above sticker. Sheesh.
09-16-05, 01:57 AM
#40
Originally Posted by jaydunn
Maybe I missed something and someone has mentioned this already but Acura just put out a $2500 cash to dealer incentive to move the RL. Now anybody can get one for $41, 500. As a former Acura customer I got my notice in the mail Monday. I wouldn't dream of paying 50k for this car but at 41.5 it's tempting.
09-17-05, 06:38 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by AlwaysLate
So what your saying here is that anybody who pays more than invoice for the Acura RL is dumb? The same RL that has consistantly placed ahead of the Lexus GS300 which is priced higher? You want people to pay for an RL what Lexus has set the MSRP on the base GS300? The RL that has been said to have better build quality, materials, technology, etc...? Are we talking about the same car here because I'm sort of dumbfounded by your ignorance. And I never mentioned, or even hinted in the past that Acura was bringing in the same premium demand as it's European competitors so I don't know why your throwing that out there. One thing funny you might want to consider is that the 1994 Acura Legend base model cost more than the 1994 BMW 525 base model. I don't think I need to tell you how well the Legend sold though. Just some food for thought.
If you didn't say that no Acura model was ever worth a premium, than who said the comment below, the Ghost of Hallow?
What else did you mean by this then? I'm not clear on this.
Please, stop beating the 15% number into the ground. Your in a dream world if your thinking that every RL sold is going to be sold at a loss to the dealer. I am not doubting that your friend got the deal, but stop swearing up and down that all RL's go for that discount. Have you considered the fact that the 2006 models will be arriving in less than a month? Of course the dealer is going to discount the car, they need to make room for the new allocation. And not to mention the car IS the slowest selling mass-produced Acura model. Dealers WILL discount on top of the end of the year discount just to get it off the lot. But to believe that ALL dealers sell at a 15% discount and the car isn't worth a penny more is just plain ignorance. Wake up.
If you didn't say that no Acura model was ever worth a premium, than who said the comment below, the Ghost of Hallow?
What else did you mean by this then? I'm not clear on this.
Please, stop beating the 15% number into the ground. Your in a dream world if your thinking that every RL sold is going to be sold at a loss to the dealer. I am not doubting that your friend got the deal, but stop swearing up and down that all RL's go for that discount. Have you considered the fact that the 2006 models will be arriving in less than a month? Of course the dealer is going to discount the car, they need to make room for the new allocation. And not to mention the car IS the slowest selling mass-produced Acura model. Dealers WILL discount on top of the end of the year discount just to get it off the lot. But to believe that ALL dealers sell at a 15% discount and the car isn't worth a penny more is just plain ignorance. Wake up.
09-17-05, 08:03 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Please come back and argue when the RL offers a V-8 like the true compettiors in this class. Thanks.
Ummm... Okay?
Lets try and act a bit more mature here, bub. I guess thats what you have to say though when there is nothing negative to say about a car. I didn't even know we were discussing a V8 here. lol. More power to you. 
09-18-05, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Please come back and argue when the RL offers a V-8 like the true compettiors in this class. Thanks.
09-18-05, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by trd4me
Your bet is on the money. I could find no M35x or A6 equipped similarly for $41,500. It's a good and a bad thing that the RL has so many standard features. Bad: You don't get to pick your own options. Good: The options are plenty. My favorites: Nav, Bluetooth, Keyless Access, 6-disc changer w/ MP3 support, XM Radio, Tire Pressure Monitor, just to name a few.
09-18-05, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RON430
I figure he'll enjoy posting here when he learns how to read posts and threads all the way through. He's not the only one who ever rushed to let the clutch out on his rapid little fingers before he engaged his brain to read what every one has posted.
DId I miss something you said? Because I'm fairly positive I read every word you posted. Please, tell me WHAT I didn't read and posted misinformation about so that I may correct myself. Please be detailed. Thats if you are serious about what you said and just not trying to make something up. Thanks.