LexFather

You cannot compare the 911 and the why's behind that engine to Honda not offering a V-8.
1. Porshe really is working wonders even offering a rear engine car.
2. They made Turbo charging very mainstream and gave the 911 exotic car performance starting in the 70s.
3. The 911 is considered by many THE STANDARD for sports cars.
4. Its amazing this engine was AIR COOLED until 8 years ago!
5. Honda is a HUGE company compared to Porsche.
6. Porsche had the brains to offer a V-8 and TURBO V-8 with the SUV, Cayenne. The V-6 Cayenne is a joke.

SC400-V8

iTrader: (1)

Yknow, A friend of mine was with me at Foxwoods last month and on display they had an Accord hybrid 6 cylinder. It was a nice car, I admit... but... it was also about 32,000 bucks. For 32,000 bucks you could have a mint, low mileage mid-nineties SC400 and about 20 grand to offset the fuel economy difference for about 10 years.

Not even a question.

mmarshall

I test-drove an Accord Hybrid several months ago but didn't do a long write-up on it because there didn't seem to be much interest in it at CL. They were hard to get and many dealerships were not allowing test-drives.
Anyhow, you mention the 32K sticker. Hybrids simply cost more to produce then conventional vehicles, and even then it is no secret that Toyota and Honda at the corporate level (not at the dealerships) are losing money on each one. I personally think ( and I've said this before ) that diesels make more sense than hybrids in states where they can legally be sold...they get the same mileage, or even more in some cases, with much less complexity. The emission problems will be addressed next year when we finally get the low-sulfur fuel and urea-injection systems for them.

440+6

What about NASCAR? I heard they are following Toyotas lead in developing a push rod v8 for competition

mmarshall

Honda and Toyota may not have much choice left in the U.S. Pretty soon, outside of Indy, there may be little choice but NASCAR. Open-wheel road-racing and Grand-Prix-style competition is in SERIOUS trouble here....partly through factors beyond their control but in large part to their own incompetence and infighting. That fiasco at the Indy road course several months ago with Michelin, the team owners, and F1 officials was just inexcusable....and may have finally been the straw that broke the camel's back.

So.....NASCAR? Hey....I'm all for it. I can just see a Camry, Avalon, Solara, or Accord with a nice new pushrod V8 bumping ol' Tony Stewart into a spin just like he does with everybody else.

spwolf

Toyota aint losing money on Prius, thats for sure :-).

As to the diesels, they make more sense in the US and hybrids do in Europe but in real life it is vice versa. Modern turbo diesels are subsidized by manufacturers as well, and cost almost as much as hybrids. All the hoopla about ML320CDI from month ago and no reporter mentioned how it actually costs as much as RX400h, with less equipment, much, much slower ride (including passing times), spends more expensive fuel and is much less refined. All that for measly 2mpg more at highway and higher overall consumption.

Now, back to the topic, it seems to me as positions of Toyota and Honda have turned. Toyota went from company that was overly cautious to technology leader that accepts challenges while Honda seems like traditional old school company that ponders every idea for 5 years at least.

Why should they even have to think about V8 engine? Will Acura ever become real luxury brand with huge incentives and V6's? NSX ever an real supercar with V6?

It is not about making money, it is about building an brand image.

440+6

Last I heard Toyota is doing well in the Truck series and Honda is trying to contract for Nextel series. To bad it can't be like the good 'ol days when you actually had to use the real car and engine. There really needs to be a stock car racing series like the Super Stock drag racing which fueled car and engine developement. I'd love to have a 10 sec 1/4 mile right from the factory.

mmarshall

How fast do you want? With few exceptions, we've got faster street cars right now, right out of the factory, than we ever did back during the 440+6 days you and I grew up in with the Plum Crazy specials, Ram-Air GTO's, and Mercury Cyclones. In 1969 / 1970 Chrysler tried offering its NASCAR Charger Daytona and Road Runner Superbird to the public....only to be told by the State of Maryland it could not be sold or registered there due to the lack of a proper front bumper...the car wouldn't pass a state inspection.
A 13-second quarter-mile was considered very fast in my day. The only cars I can remember stock that could break that barrier were the AC Cobra 427 and the Corvette 427 triple-deuce package. ( The Plymouth Hemicuda, at 13.10 seconds, came close ). Today's supercars laugh at 13 seconds. Look at today's 500 HP Shelby Mustang, Viper, Corvette Z06, BMW M-cars, Mercedes AMG's, etc.... You never saw HP figures like this 30-40 years ago from the factory, even with the more liberal HP measuring system back then. And, to top it off, those cars were larger and in some cases weighed more than today's cars and, except in a straight line, drove and handled like front-heavy trucks with free play in the recirculating-ball steering.

We are living right now in what is probably the greatest muscle-car and supercar age in history....and unlike our high-school days, these cars handle and steer as well

pvmike1

Honda has made a few things that are exceptional. Below are my 3 favorite:







And yeah, Honda dropped the ball by not putting a V8 in the RL. Hope they've finally learned.

mmarshall

Maybe they'll make up for it by dropping the V8 into the Sportbike.

XeroK00L

How about this? Not your favorite? A 5.5hp beast!!

440+6

I can name two cars, Barracuda S/S and Dart S/S, then there is the FAST series that sticks to some really strick rules, must use bias ply tires etc, Vette doing 10's. The 426 Max Wedge and the Ram Charger. Chevy of course had some copo cars, ford well known for their A/FX. Alot of these cars arn't the torque monsters they used to be.