Acura and Lexus have accurate SAE ratings while Nissan aka Renault refuses to change
09-30-05, 05:27 AM
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Acura and Lexus have accurate SAE ratings while Nissan aka Renault refuses to change
http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/28/acu...s.html%3Cbr%3E
For years auto scribes have questioned why Japanese V-6s, such as the 270 horsepower motor in the 2005 Acura TL sedan, seemed more powerful than many American V-8s. Now we have some answers. For 2006, Acura claims only 258 hp for the TL's 3.2-liter V-6.
It is not $3-per-gallon gasoline or a retreat from the industry's ongoing horsepower race behind the revised statistics. Acura and other automakers had to restate power ratings in order to conform to a new standard promoted by the Society of Automotive Engineers, a professional technical organization.
Slide Show: Missing Horses
"The committee took a look at the existing horsepower standard and found areas open to interpretation," says SAE spokesperson Gary Pollak. Under the previous documentation, companies had more latitude in the testing process to select fuel grades, fiddle with electronic control units or exclude accessories like power steering. "The new standard has no ambiguities," says Pollak.
Nameplates such as Acura and the Lexus division of Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) have quietly restated figures on a number of models. For 2006, the high-end Lexus LS V-8 sedan, the 430, for example, drops to 283 horsepower from 290, while the V-6 in the Lexus RX 330 fell to 223 hp from 230. In contrast, numbers went up a bit for some motors from Pontiac and Buick.
SAE added another twist: voluntary outside verification of horsepower tests. So far, only General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) and DaimlerChrysler (nyse: DCX - news - people ) have taken this extra step--at least on a few engines. Some GM engines went down in advertised power. But under the new standard the horsepower promised in the new super Corvette motor, the LS7, went up to 505 from 500
For years auto scribes have questioned why Japanese V-6s, such as the 270 horsepower motor in the 2005 Acura TL sedan, seemed more powerful than many American V-8s. Now we have some answers. For 2006, Acura claims only 258 hp for the TL's 3.2-liter V-6.
It is not $3-per-gallon gasoline or a retreat from the industry's ongoing horsepower race behind the revised statistics. Acura and other automakers had to restate power ratings in order to conform to a new standard promoted by the Society of Automotive Engineers, a professional technical organization.
Slide Show: Missing Horses
"The committee took a look at the existing horsepower standard and found areas open to interpretation," says SAE spokesperson Gary Pollak. Under the previous documentation, companies had more latitude in the testing process to select fuel grades, fiddle with electronic control units or exclude accessories like power steering. "The new standard has no ambiguities," says Pollak.
Nameplates such as Acura and the Lexus division of Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) have quietly restated figures on a number of models. For 2006, the high-end Lexus LS V-8 sedan, the 430, for example, drops to 283 horsepower from 290, while the V-6 in the Lexus RX 330 fell to 223 hp from 230. In contrast, numbers went up a bit for some motors from Pontiac and Buick.
SAE added another twist: voluntary outside verification of horsepower tests. So far, only General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) and DaimlerChrysler (nyse: DCX - news - people ) have taken this extra step--at least on a few engines. Some GM engines went down in advertised power. But under the new standard the horsepower promised in the new super Corvette motor, the LS7, went up to 505 from 500
09-30-05, 06:06 AM
#2
Lexus Connoisseur
LOL Russell Zotz.These new SAE ratings have really no bearing on the vehicle's performance.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=174694
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=174694
Last edited by flipside909; 09-30-05 at 06:20 AM.
09-30-05, 06:10 AM
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https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...80&postcount=4
It was really no secret considering it was a press release some sources are oblivious to. Toyota/Lexus was one of the first to step up and acknowledge the new protocol. There are several manufacturers out there that are still relying on the 10 year old SAE method.
It was really no secret considering it was a press release some sources are oblivious to. Toyota/Lexus was one of the first to step up and acknowledge the new protocol. There are several manufacturers out there that are still relying on the 10 year old SAE method.
Originally Posted by flipside909
Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Horsepower Change
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) revised Standard J1349, which sets forth the protocol for testing horsepower and torque as of the first of this year. One purpose of the change was to try to achieve more consistent ratings throughout the industry. California requires that advertised horsepower claims be determined using the SAE Standard. The revision specifies that certain equipment be installed on the engine and operating at the time of testing, as well as the use of the manufacturer-required grade of fuel during the test. Presumably, all manufacturers will be using the revised Standard for future tests.
Lexus decided to retest most of its engines using the new protocol this year. Consequently, the horsepower and torque ratings for some of our vehicles declined this year. Any changes in horsepower and torque ratings based on the implementation of the new testing protocol, however, have no impact on actual engine performance.
Credit: Lexus USA
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) revised Standard J1349, which sets forth the protocol for testing horsepower and torque as of the first of this year. One purpose of the change was to try to achieve more consistent ratings throughout the industry. California requires that advertised horsepower claims be determined using the SAE Standard. The revision specifies that certain equipment be installed on the engine and operating at the time of testing, as well as the use of the manufacturer-required grade of fuel during the test. Presumably, all manufacturers will be using the revised Standard for future tests.
Lexus decided to retest most of its engines using the new protocol this year. Consequently, the horsepower and torque ratings for some of our vehicles declined this year. Any changes in horsepower and torque ratings based on the implementation of the new testing protocol, however, have no impact on actual engine performance.
Credit: Lexus USA
09-30-05, 02:35 PM
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What's sad is that Nissan and Infiniti have the MOST overinflated horsepower numbers of any car company, yet they have yet to release their new SAE ratings. It says something when a 6-speed 298 hp G35 CANNOT outrun a "258 hp" TL 6-speed that's even heavier.
I personally can't wait to see Nissan/Infiniti's new numbers. They even say on their website in a little footnote that their hp ratings are lower under the new SAE ratings. What they dont mention is that their going to be A LOT lower.
I applaud Acura and Lexus for having the courage to release their new numbers already.
I personally can't wait to see Nissan/Infiniti's new numbers. They even say on their website in a little footnote that their hp ratings are lower under the new SAE ratings. What they dont mention is that their going to be A LOT lower.
I applaud Acura and Lexus for having the courage to release their new numbers already.
Last edited by CallmeDoc; 09-30-05 at 02:38 PM.
09-30-05, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 260hpTypeS
What's sad is that Nissan and Infiniti have the MOST overinflated horsepower numbers of any car company, yet they have yet to release their new SAE ratings. It says something when a 6-speed 298 hp G35 CANNOT outrun a "258 hp" TL 6-speed that's even heavier.
I personally can't wait to see Nissan/Infiniti's new numbers. They even say on their website in a little footnote that their hp ratings are lower under the new SAE ratings. What they dont mention is that their going to be A LOT lower.
I applaud Acura and Lexus for having the courage to release their new numbers already.
I personally can't wait to see Nissan/Infiniti's new numbers. They even say on their website in a little footnote that their hp ratings are lower under the new SAE ratings. What they dont mention is that their going to be A LOT lower.
I applaud Acura and Lexus for having the courage to release their new numbers already.
Last edited by XeroK00L; 09-30-05 at 03:41 PM.
09-30-05, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by flipside909
LOL Russell Zotz.These new SAE ratings have really no bearing on the vehicle's performance.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=174694
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=174694
09-30-05, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 260hpTypeS
What's sad is that Nissan and Infiniti have the MOST overinflated horsepower numbers of any car company, yet they have yet to release their new SAE ratings. It says something when a 6-speed 298 hp G35 CANNOT outrun a "258 hp" TL 6-speed that's even heavier.
I personally can't wait to see Nissan/Infiniti's new numbers. They even say on their website in a little footnote that their hp ratings are lower under the new SAE ratings. What they dont mention is that their going to be A LOT lower.
I applaud Acura and Lexus for having the courage to release their new numbers already.
I personally can't wait to see Nissan/Infiniti's new numbers. They even say on their website in a little footnote that their hp ratings are lower under the new SAE ratings. What they dont mention is that their going to be A LOT lower.
I applaud Acura and Lexus for having the courage to release their new numbers already.
A 260 hp 6mt Sedan out runs a 270 hp TL.
A 298 hp G35 would easily beat a TL since mine did.
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09-30-05, 04:18 PM
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I am not even going to respond to this old news. We discussed this MONTHS ago.
09-30-05, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
Sorry but this is not true and dyno #'s prove this. Nissan has always been UNDERATED for power not overated.
A 260 hp 6mt Sedan out runs a 270 hp TL.
A 298 hp G35 would easily beat a TL since mine did.
A 260 hp 6mt Sedan out runs a 270 hp TL.
A 298 hp G35 would easily beat a TL since mine did.
09-30-05, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 260hpTypeS
You've got to be joking. Nissan UNDERRATED?? Maybe for torque, but hp is WAY inflated. Check every TL vs. G35 comparo where there in the same test, the TL is even FASTER in some of them. The G is never faster. If your the old infamous Russ, I can understand that unintelligent post......
The TL and G35 are pretty even, manual to manual, from 0-60. Dead heat. And a dead heat in an automatic. It can go either way.
And I changed the THREAD TITLE so it would be more accurate.
09-30-05, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
There are lawsuits filed for some Nissan 3.5 VQ owners stating the cars are not making the advertised HP.
The TL and G35 are pretty even, manual to manual, from 0-60. Dead heat. And a dead heat in an automatic. It can go either way.
And I changed the THREAD TITLE so it would be more accurate.
The TL and G35 are pretty even, manual to manual, from 0-60. Dead heat. And a dead heat in an automatic. It can go either way.
And I changed the THREAD TITLE so it would be more accurate.
And Nissan's (Infiniti's) numbers have been accurate. For instance, they tested the FX under the revised standard and the FX45's numbers went up while the FX35's remained the same.
09-30-05, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 260hpTypeS
You've got to be joking. Nissan UNDERRATED?? Maybe for torque, but hp is WAY inflated. Check every TL vs. G35 comparo where there in the same test, the TL is even FASTER in some of them. The G is never faster. If your the old infamous Russ, I can understand that unintelligent post......
Been testing Nissans since 1996. Most Nissans have always been underated. Hondas have always been OVERATED. I use to own a CL-S, trust me I know.
Really? Where is the TL actually faster? Because every test I have seen it hasn't been.
Especially with that wrong wheel drive configuration.
09-30-05, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
There are lawsuits filed for some Nissan 3.5 VQ owners stating the cars are not making the advertised HP.
The TL and G35 are pretty even, manual to manual, from 0-60. Dead heat. And a dead heat in an automatic. It can go either way.
And I changed the THREAD TITLE so it would be more accurate.
The TL and G35 are pretty even, manual to manual, from 0-60. Dead heat. And a dead heat in an automatic. It can go either way.
And I changed the THREAD TITLE so it would be more accurate.
09-30-05, 06:58 PM
#14
for comparisons sake, my 280HP infiniti put down 20 more HP than my 300HP GS. just thought i'd chime in. you guys dont know how funny it is for me to watch the lexus v infiniti wars. keep it up, the popcorns almost ready 
Doc
Doc
09-30-05, 08:18 PM
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everytime the TL is compared to the G35 acceleration #'s are very basically the same. Anyways whatever slight hp advantage the G35 may have over the TL is cancelled out by its poor fuel economy. The TL 3.2L is the better engine, but belongs in a better chassis, IMO.
I've driven the TL's, obviously nose heavy cars.
I've driven the TL's, obviously nose heavy cars.