Could this be one of the reasons why the big 3 are going broke
10-17-05 | 11:30 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
Could this be one of the reasons why the big 3 are going broke
Jobs bank programs -- 12,000 paid not to work
Big 3 and suppliers pay billions to keep downsized UAW members on payroll in decades-long deal.
By Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News
Morris Richardson II / The Detroit News
Laid-off GM worker Socorro Tijerina sorts donated clothes as part of a community service effort organized by the UAW.
WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.
"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.
The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing.
As part of its restructuring under bankruptcy, Delphi is actively pressing the union to give up the program.
With Wall Street wondering how automakers can afford to pay thousands of workers to do nothing as their market share withers, the union is likely to hear a similar message from the Big Three when their contracts with the UAW expire in 2007 -- if not sooner.
"It's an albatross around their necks," said Steven Szakaly, an economist with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. "It's a huge number of workers doing nothing. That has a very large effect on their future earnings outlook."
General Motors Corp. has roughly 5,000 workers in its jobs bank. Delphi has about 4,000 in its version of the same program. Some 2,100 workers are in DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group's job security program. Ford had 1,275 in its jobs bank as of Sept. 25. The pending closure of Ford's assembly plant in Loraine, Ohio, could add significantly to that total. Those numbers could swell in coming years as GM and Ford prepare to close more plants.
Detroit automakers declined to discuss the programs in detail or say exactly how much they are spending, but the four-year labor contracts they signed with the UAW in 2003 established contribution caps that give a good idea of the size of the expense.
According to those documents, GM agreed to contribute up to $2.1 billion over four years. DaimlerChrysler set aside $451 million for its program, along with another $50 million for salaried employees covered under the contract. Ford, which also maintained responsibility for Visteon Corp.'s UAW employees, agreed to contribute $944 million.
Delphi pledged to contribute $630 million. In August, however, Delphi Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Robert S. "Steve" Miller said the company spent more than $100 million on its jobs bank program in the second quarter alone.
"Can we keep losing $400 million a year paying for workers in the jobs bank and $400 million a year on operations? No, we cannot deal with that indefinitely," Miller said in a recent interview with The Detroit News. "We can't wait until 2007."
Guaranteed employment
The jobs bank was established during 1984 labor contract talks between the UAW and the Big Three. The union, still reeling from the loss of 500,000 jobs during the recession of the late 1970s and early 1980s, was determined to protect those who were left. Detroit automakers were eager to win union support to boost productivity through increased automation and more production flexibility.
The result was a plan to guarantee pay and benefits for union members whose jobs fell victim to technological progress or plant restructurings. In most cases, workers end up in the jobs bank only after they have exhausted their government unemployment benefits, which are also supplemented by the companies through a related program. In some cases, workers go directly into the program and the benefits can last until they are eligible to retire or return to the factory floor.
By making it so expensive to keep paying idled workers, the UAW thought Detroit automakers would avoid layoffs. By discouraging layoffs, the union thought it could prevent outsourcing.
That strategy has worked but at the expense of the domestic auto industry's long-term viability.
American automakers have produced cars and trucks even when there is little market demand for them, forcing manufacturers to offer big rebates and discounts.
"Sometimes they just push product on us," said Bill Holden Jr., general manager of Holden Dodge Inc. in Dover, Del., who said this does not go over well with the dealers. "But they've got these contracts with the union."
In Detroit's battle against Asian and European competitors that are unencumbered by such labor costs, the job banks have become a major competitive disadvantage.
Breaking the banks
Analysts say the jobs bank could be a bigger issue than health care in the 2007 contract negotiations, particularly at Ford. It has a younger work force than GM, meaning any workers Ford sends to the bench are likely to stay there for a while.
"Ford is under pressure from investors to cut costs," said Roland Zullo, a research scientist at the University of Michigan's Institute of Labor and Industrial Relations. "At the same time, the unions are going to be under pressure to protect jobs."
Given that, he expects a compromise that allows for the jobs bank to continue but not on the scale of the current programs. "There's going to be a lot of give and take," he said.
But does the jobs bank make any sense in a climate of shrinking profits and declining market share?
"Labor wants the (jobs bank) because they want protection for their members," Zullo said. But he added that the jobs bank was also designed to help the companies by ensuring that skilled workers did not take their talents elsewhere.
"Companies invest in training," he said. "It protects that investment."
The investment only makes sense when viewed from a long-term perspective, a vantage point Wall Street is not known to favor.
"If they're going after the job banks, that would signal to me that the folks at the top have lost faith in their ability to recoup market share," Zullo said. "That would suggest to me that they really don't see a turnaround."
Analysts and labor experts believe some sort of compromise is inevitable as pressure builds on Detroit automakers to lower operating costs.
"The union probably realizes the money to pay for these programs probably doesn't exist," Szakaly said. "There's going to have to be some give on the jobs bank."
While the job banks may exemplify the sort of excesses that give unions a bad name, experts say it is wrong to cast all the blame in the direction of Solidarity House. He said the leaders of GM, Ford and Chrysler also bear some responsibility for the current problems.
"If these guys built cars people wanted, this wouldn't even be an issue," Szakaly said.
'Put out to pasture'
That view was echoed by Dan Cisco, another member of the jobs bank at Michigan Truck, as he drained a cup of coffee with Pool and other idled workers at Rex's restaurant in Wayne last week.
Ten members of UAW Local 900 are currently assigned to the jobs bank at Michigan Truck. They are all gun-welder repairmen -- or "gunnies." It is a classification each says they earned through decades of hard work.
And none of them is ready to give it up.
While some might envy their life of leisure, workers like Cisco, 56, feel humiliated by the program.
"I felt like I was useless -- like I was put out to pasture," he said. "It's just like how they treated the veterans. During the war, we were heroes. When we came back ... "
Cisco adjusts his cap, emblazoned with the familiar silhouette of a captive American POW, and sighs.
Michigan Truck, which builds the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator full-size SUVs, used to be one of Ford's most profitable plants. Today, the nation is turning away from the big trucks and sport utility vehicles it builds.
Cisco, Pool and eight other gunnies from Michigan Truck have been in the jobs bank program since their positions were eliminated in July. They all have more than 36 years with Ford and are among the highest-paid workers in the plant. They say the company is asking them to accept one of the $35,000 retirement packages it is offering to trim its blue-collar headcount.
Most say they have no interest in retiring -- or spending the rest of their careers doing crossword puzzles.
"We want training," Dale Hall said.
Classes are available, the workers said. They have been invited to take courses on bicycle repair, home wiring and poker. Silk-flower arranging is also available.
"They might as well just give us a basket-weaving class, set us in the corner and let us feed the pigeons," Cisco said.
Community service
Not everyone in the jobs bank is spending their time marking it.
Dan Costilla, a member of UAW Local 602 in Lansing, was a body shop worker at GM's Lansing car assembly plant until it was closed in May. Now, instead of grinding joints, he rides herd over 16 of his former plantmates, making sure they keep their appointments at the local thrift store or Head Start program.
"I'm making sure that everything's going smooth," he said.
In the five months since Costilla and his co-workers have been unemployed, they have been busy mowing lawns for the handicapped, patching roofs for senior citizens and chaperoning youngsters on field trips to the zoo. It is all part of a community service effort organized by the union, with the support of the company.
"They realized you could only sit so long at the job bank office," Costilla said. "Your bones, they get sore after a while sitting down."
Bob Bowen, former president of UAW Local 849 in Ypsilanti, said the original intent of the jobs bank program was that idled workers would be gainfully employed on community projects or learning new skills -- real ones that they could actually use on the assembly line.
"The idea was not to have people loafing," Bowen said. "But that was a concern."
The problem, he said, lies in the way the jobs bank is administered.
Instead of setting up a central authority to manage them, responsibility was largely left to union locals across the country. Some organized community projects and job training. Others passed out decks of cards and hooked up VCRs.
Ken Pool said he can only take so many more World War II documentaries and crossword puzzles.
He and the other members of Michigan Truck's jobs bank planned to meet with a lawyer. They have already filed numerous grievances, accusing the company of age discrimination, but have heard nothing from the union or the company.
Now they are going to see if the courts can help.
As for Costilla and his colleagues, they are getting ready to go back to work at GM's new Delta Township plant. Costilla acknowledges that many of the union members are not looking forward to going back to work at the factory.
"The majority of us would rather stay here doing what we're doing," he said.
"You're not on the line, chasing a car."
You can reach Bryce Hoffman at (313) 222-2443 or bhoffman@detnews.com.
David Coates / The Detroit News
"I felt like I was useless - like I was put out to pasture," says Dan Cisco, right, with Dale Hall, Berlin Scott and Sylvester Martin, other idled autoworkers, at Rex's restaurant in Wayne.
Big 3 and suppliers pay billions to keep downsized UAW members on payroll in decades-long deal.
By Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News
Morris Richardson II / The Detroit News
Laid-off GM worker Socorro Tijerina sorts donated clothes as part of a community service effort organized by the UAW.
WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.
"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.
The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing.
As part of its restructuring under bankruptcy, Delphi is actively pressing the union to give up the program.
With Wall Street wondering how automakers can afford to pay thousands of workers to do nothing as their market share withers, the union is likely to hear a similar message from the Big Three when their contracts with the UAW expire in 2007 -- if not sooner.
"It's an albatross around their necks," said Steven Szakaly, an economist with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. "It's a huge number of workers doing nothing. That has a very large effect on their future earnings outlook."
General Motors Corp. has roughly 5,000 workers in its jobs bank. Delphi has about 4,000 in its version of the same program. Some 2,100 workers are in DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group's job security program. Ford had 1,275 in its jobs bank as of Sept. 25. The pending closure of Ford's assembly plant in Loraine, Ohio, could add significantly to that total. Those numbers could swell in coming years as GM and Ford prepare to close more plants.
Detroit automakers declined to discuss the programs in detail or say exactly how much they are spending, but the four-year labor contracts they signed with the UAW in 2003 established contribution caps that give a good idea of the size of the expense.
According to those documents, GM agreed to contribute up to $2.1 billion over four years. DaimlerChrysler set aside $451 million for its program, along with another $50 million for salaried employees covered under the contract. Ford, which also maintained responsibility for Visteon Corp.'s UAW employees, agreed to contribute $944 million.
Delphi pledged to contribute $630 million. In August, however, Delphi Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Robert S. "Steve" Miller said the company spent more than $100 million on its jobs bank program in the second quarter alone.
"Can we keep losing $400 million a year paying for workers in the jobs bank and $400 million a year on operations? No, we cannot deal with that indefinitely," Miller said in a recent interview with The Detroit News. "We can't wait until 2007."
Guaranteed employment
The jobs bank was established during 1984 labor contract talks between the UAW and the Big Three. The union, still reeling from the loss of 500,000 jobs during the recession of the late 1970s and early 1980s, was determined to protect those who were left. Detroit automakers were eager to win union support to boost productivity through increased automation and more production flexibility.
The result was a plan to guarantee pay and benefits for union members whose jobs fell victim to technological progress or plant restructurings. In most cases, workers end up in the jobs bank only after they have exhausted their government unemployment benefits, which are also supplemented by the companies through a related program. In some cases, workers go directly into the program and the benefits can last until they are eligible to retire or return to the factory floor.
By making it so expensive to keep paying idled workers, the UAW thought Detroit automakers would avoid layoffs. By discouraging layoffs, the union thought it could prevent outsourcing.
That strategy has worked but at the expense of the domestic auto industry's long-term viability.
American automakers have produced cars and trucks even when there is little market demand for them, forcing manufacturers to offer big rebates and discounts.
"Sometimes they just push product on us," said Bill Holden Jr., general manager of Holden Dodge Inc. in Dover, Del., who said this does not go over well with the dealers. "But they've got these contracts with the union."
In Detroit's battle against Asian and European competitors that are unencumbered by such labor costs, the job banks have become a major competitive disadvantage.
Breaking the banks
Analysts say the jobs bank could be a bigger issue than health care in the 2007 contract negotiations, particularly at Ford. It has a younger work force than GM, meaning any workers Ford sends to the bench are likely to stay there for a while.
"Ford is under pressure from investors to cut costs," said Roland Zullo, a research scientist at the University of Michigan's Institute of Labor and Industrial Relations. "At the same time, the unions are going to be under pressure to protect jobs."
Given that, he expects a compromise that allows for the jobs bank to continue but not on the scale of the current programs. "There's going to be a lot of give and take," he said.
But does the jobs bank make any sense in a climate of shrinking profits and declining market share?
"Labor wants the (jobs bank) because they want protection for their members," Zullo said. But he added that the jobs bank was also designed to help the companies by ensuring that skilled workers did not take their talents elsewhere.
"Companies invest in training," he said. "It protects that investment."
The investment only makes sense when viewed from a long-term perspective, a vantage point Wall Street is not known to favor.
"If they're going after the job banks, that would signal to me that the folks at the top have lost faith in their ability to recoup market share," Zullo said. "That would suggest to me that they really don't see a turnaround."
Analysts and labor experts believe some sort of compromise is inevitable as pressure builds on Detroit automakers to lower operating costs.
"The union probably realizes the money to pay for these programs probably doesn't exist," Szakaly said. "There's going to have to be some give on the jobs bank."
While the job banks may exemplify the sort of excesses that give unions a bad name, experts say it is wrong to cast all the blame in the direction of Solidarity House. He said the leaders of GM, Ford and Chrysler also bear some responsibility for the current problems.
"If these guys built cars people wanted, this wouldn't even be an issue," Szakaly said.
'Put out to pasture'
That view was echoed by Dan Cisco, another member of the jobs bank at Michigan Truck, as he drained a cup of coffee with Pool and other idled workers at Rex's restaurant in Wayne last week.
Ten members of UAW Local 900 are currently assigned to the jobs bank at Michigan Truck. They are all gun-welder repairmen -- or "gunnies." It is a classification each says they earned through decades of hard work.
And none of them is ready to give it up.
While some might envy their life of leisure, workers like Cisco, 56, feel humiliated by the program.
"I felt like I was useless -- like I was put out to pasture," he said. "It's just like how they treated the veterans. During the war, we were heroes. When we came back ... "
Cisco adjusts his cap, emblazoned with the familiar silhouette of a captive American POW, and sighs.
Michigan Truck, which builds the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator full-size SUVs, used to be one of Ford's most profitable plants. Today, the nation is turning away from the big trucks and sport utility vehicles it builds.
Cisco, Pool and eight other gunnies from Michigan Truck have been in the jobs bank program since their positions were eliminated in July. They all have more than 36 years with Ford and are among the highest-paid workers in the plant. They say the company is asking them to accept one of the $35,000 retirement packages it is offering to trim its blue-collar headcount.
Most say they have no interest in retiring -- or spending the rest of their careers doing crossword puzzles.
"We want training," Dale Hall said.
Classes are available, the workers said. They have been invited to take courses on bicycle repair, home wiring and poker. Silk-flower arranging is also available.
"They might as well just give us a basket-weaving class, set us in the corner and let us feed the pigeons," Cisco said.
Community service
Not everyone in the jobs bank is spending their time marking it.
Dan Costilla, a member of UAW Local 602 in Lansing, was a body shop worker at GM's Lansing car assembly plant until it was closed in May. Now, instead of grinding joints, he rides herd over 16 of his former plantmates, making sure they keep their appointments at the local thrift store or Head Start program.
"I'm making sure that everything's going smooth," he said.
In the five months since Costilla and his co-workers have been unemployed, they have been busy mowing lawns for the handicapped, patching roofs for senior citizens and chaperoning youngsters on field trips to the zoo. It is all part of a community service effort organized by the union, with the support of the company.
"They realized you could only sit so long at the job bank office," Costilla said. "Your bones, they get sore after a while sitting down."
Bob Bowen, former president of UAW Local 849 in Ypsilanti, said the original intent of the jobs bank program was that idled workers would be gainfully employed on community projects or learning new skills -- real ones that they could actually use on the assembly line.
"The idea was not to have people loafing," Bowen said. "But that was a concern."
The problem, he said, lies in the way the jobs bank is administered.
Instead of setting up a central authority to manage them, responsibility was largely left to union locals across the country. Some organized community projects and job training. Others passed out decks of cards and hooked up VCRs.
Ken Pool said he can only take so many more World War II documentaries and crossword puzzles.
He and the other members of Michigan Truck's jobs bank planned to meet with a lawyer. They have already filed numerous grievances, accusing the company of age discrimination, but have heard nothing from the union or the company.
Now they are going to see if the courts can help.
As for Costilla and his colleagues, they are getting ready to go back to work at GM's new Delta Township plant. Costilla acknowledges that many of the union members are not looking forward to going back to work at the factory.
"The majority of us would rather stay here doing what we're doing," he said.
"You're not on the line, chasing a car."
You can reach Bryce Hoffman at (313) 222-2443 or bhoffman@detnews.com.
David Coates / The Detroit News
"I felt like I was useless - like I was put out to pasture," says Dan Cisco, right, with Dale Hall, Berlin Scott and Sylvester Martin, other idled autoworkers, at Rex's restaurant in Wayne.
10-17-05 | 12:27 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,029
Likes: 1
From: California
I've always heard that the UAW is one of the best unions in the world. It's nice to have that kind of job security, but eventually it's going to bite the country in the ****. Manufacturing cars in this country under the UAW is going inflate costs for manufacturers which inflates costs for consumers which makes them NOT buy new cars which sinks companys.
I love the fact that I spend 12 hours a day working like mad to make 13.50 an hour while these jackholes get over double what I make just to do nothing.
I love the fact that I spend 12 hours a day working like mad to make 13.50 an hour while these jackholes get over double what I make just to do nothing.
10-17-05 | 12:34 PM
#3
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Mr Moderator...another good one for the debate forum.
UAW...Unions Against Work.
I've had a discussion about this topic recently with a coworker. I don't favor unions at all. This is non-sense to have to pay someone that doesn't really work. I've known these kind of Ford workers back in Ohio. They brag about how easy they got it and get payed for sitting at bar getting drunk. UAW is bull-crap...IMO. Yes it is hurting the automotive industry and other industries...such at airports. Jobs should be competitive and earnings performance based. You work you're butt off, you keep your job...period...no slacker allowed.
UAW...Unions Against Work.
I've had a discussion about this topic recently with a coworker. I don't favor unions at all. This is non-sense to have to pay someone that doesn't really work. I've known these kind of Ford workers back in Ohio. They brag about how easy they got it and get payed for sitting at bar getting drunk. UAW is bull-crap...IMO. Yes it is hurting the automotive industry and other industries...such at airports. Jobs should be competitive and earnings performance based. You work you're butt off, you keep your job...period...no slacker allowed.
10-17-05 | 01:42 PM
#4
i will let other moderators decide if this goes to the debate forum.
but for all i care and from what i see, UAW is a joke. and it's even more shameful that some companies will agree to their terms to gain support
but for all i care and from what i see, UAW is a joke. and it's even more shameful that some companies will agree to their terms to gain support
10-17-05 | 02:01 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,068
Likes: 1
From: California
Originally Posted by bmgs400
Mr Moderator...another good one for the debate forum.
UAW...Unions Against Work. I've had a discussion about this topic recently with a coworker. I don't favor unions at all. This is non-sense to have to pay someone that doesn't really work. I've known these kind of Ford workers back in Ohio. They brag about how easy they got it and get payed for sitting at bar getting drunk. UAW is bull-crap...IMO. Yes it is hurting the automotive industry and other industries...such at airports. Jobs should be competitive and earnings performance based. You work you're butt off, you keep your job...period...no slacker allowed.
UAW...Unions Against Work.
I've had a discussion about this topic recently with a coworker. I don't favor unions at all. This is non-sense to have to pay someone that doesn't really work. I've known these kind of Ford workers back in Ohio. They brag about how easy they got it and get payed for sitting at bar getting drunk. UAW is bull-crap...IMO. Yes it is hurting the automotive industry and other industries...such at airports. Jobs should be competitive and earnings performance based. You work you're butt off, you keep your job...period...no slacker allowed.
10-17-05 | 03:08 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
Originally Posted by rominl
it's even more shameful that some companies will agree to their terms to gain support
Don't get me wrong I don't agree with someone getting paid to do nothing, especially the amount of money these guys are making. Yet every employee seeks what these guys have, job security.
10-17-05 | 03:42 PM
#7
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,751
Likes: 0
From: NM
Unions are the spawn of Satan
Unions are the devil. What ever happened to pride in your work, feeling great after putting in a hard day at the office and personal responsibility.
Too many union workers (not all, but too many) ask "What is my union going to do to protect MY JOB?". They should instead be asking theselves "How can I do a better job and improve my education and skills so I can protect my job, or get hired quyickly elsewhere if I get laid off?".
drink300
Too many union workers (not all, but too many) ask "What is my union going to do to protect MY JOB?". They should instead be asking theselves "How can I do a better job and improve my education and skills so I can protect my job, or get hired quyickly elsewhere if I get laid off?".
drink300
Trending Topics
10-17-05 | 03:45 PM
#8
Unions are good in some sense where they give a unified voice to workers so that they are not taken advangtage of by corporate. The "downside" is that the workers have to pay for this benefit. But, unions being there to enable someone to get paid high $ for doing basically nothing makes no sense either.
10-17-05 | 03:56 PM
#9
Wait till Wal*Mart starts offering Chinese cars. Then it's over for the UAW and possibly Ford and GM who will be forced into bankruptcy and reorganization just like Delphi.
On a brighter note GM today announced a decent healthcare restructuring arrangement to save money. The union knows they slow killing the golden goose.
On a brighter note GM today announced a decent healthcare restructuring arrangement to save money. The union knows they slow killing the golden goose.
10-17-05 | 05:45 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 687
Likes: 0
From: S. California
Yup, I agree with 1Sick.
Unions are just half the problem, the big problem is the top chimps running GM and Ford are just what they are Monkeys. Chrysler with their new German leader is actually profitable, does not have to rely on suv margins to stay alive and despite having to deal with the same unions and lazy workers their reliability are up.
Unions are just half the problem, the big problem is the top chimps running GM and Ford are just what they are Monkeys. Chrysler with their new German leader is actually profitable, does not have to rely on suv margins to stay alive and despite having to deal with the same unions and lazy workers their reliability are up.
10-17-05 | 05:45 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,712
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Well........there's really two sides to this............and I try and look at both sides. Yes, UAW people do make a lot in wages and benefits. Some of it is deserved....some is not, depending on the complexity of the job and the skill level needed to accomplish it. For instance, the people that wire air bag sensors or are responsible for a smooth, even paint job have far more difficult work than those who just mount wheels and tires all day long with an impact wrench...providing that the wheels are not put on by robots in the first place.
So...after decades of this....this can be hard work either way.......an auto worker, IMO, deserves his pension...or at least a nice IRA. It's not fair if, after say, 40 years of work or so, for the company to say, " Well, JoeBlow, we can't afford to give you a pension now because Toyota or Honda has lower costs than we do. Those UAW employees...and their union negotiators.....signed a legal contract for an hourly wage and a pension. If they do their part and produce for the company and help the company build its cars and make a profit, they in turn have earned their retirement and are entitled to it. That's only fair. If that retirement costs me a few bucks more when I go to buy a new car....so be it. Look...American taxpayers are going to fund MY Government retirement...one that I have earned. Why should I, in turn, not be willing to pay a few extra bucks on a new car to help fund the retirement of those who worked hard to build it? If I wasn't, IMO that would be just selfishness on my part.
Now...that's not to say that EVERYONE in the plant deserves sky-high wages. As I pointed out earlier, it depends on the job you do and the skill it takes to do it. But everyone, IMO, deserves some kind of a pension or an IRA when they retire. I, fortunately, am going to be lucky enough to have both...and I'm thankful for it.
So...after decades of this....this can be hard work either way.......an auto worker, IMO, deserves his pension...or at least a nice IRA. It's not fair if, after say, 40 years of work or so, for the company to say, " Well, JoeBlow, we can't afford to give you a pension now because Toyota or Honda has lower costs than we do. Those UAW employees...and their union negotiators.....signed a legal contract for an hourly wage and a pension. If they do their part and produce for the company and help the company build its cars and make a profit, they in turn have earned their retirement and are entitled to it. That's only fair. If that retirement costs me a few bucks more when I go to buy a new car....so be it. Look...American taxpayers are going to fund MY Government retirement...one that I have earned. Why should I, in turn, not be willing to pay a few extra bucks on a new car to help fund the retirement of those who worked hard to build it? If I wasn't, IMO that would be just selfishness on my part.
Now...that's not to say that EVERYONE in the plant deserves sky-high wages. As I pointed out earlier, it depends on the job you do and the skill it takes to do it. But everyone, IMO, deserves some kind of a pension or an IRA when they retire. I, fortunately, am going to be lucky enough to have both...and I'm thankful for it.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-17-05 at 05:54 PM.
10-17-05 | 05:52 PM
#13
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
From: Redondo Beach, CA
What's eye-wateringly sad to me about this article is twofold:
1) That the companies can't find SOME way to put these supposedly skilled laborers to better use than doing crossword puzzles. Can't they put them on product improvement teams, or split hours with the workers who are WORKING or something? At least have them add value to the corporation SOMEHOW!
2) That these workers are actually willing to live this way. How pathetic must your life be for you to be satisfied collecting a decent wage for doing nothing? These people should be ASHAMED of themselves.
1) That the companies can't find SOME way to put these supposedly skilled laborers to better use than doing crossword puzzles. Can't they put them on product improvement teams, or split hours with the workers who are WORKING or something? At least have them add value to the corporation SOMEHOW!
2) That these workers are actually willing to live this way. How pathetic must your life be for you to be satisfied collecting a decent wage for doing nothing? These people should be ASHAMED of themselves.
Last edited by Iceman; 10-18-05 at 07:11 PM.
10-17-05 | 05:57 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,712
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by Iceman
What's eye-wateringly sad to me about this article is twofold:
1) That the companies can't find SOME way to put these supposedly skilled laborers to better use than doing crossword puzzles. Can't them put them on product improvement teams, or split hours with the workers who are WORKING or something? At least have them add value to the corporation SOMEHOW!
2) That these workers are actually willing to live this way. How pathetic must your life be for you to be satisfied collecting a decent wage for doing nothing? These people should be ASHAMED of themselves.
1) That the companies can't find SOME way to put these supposedly skilled laborers to better use than doing crossword puzzles. Can't them put them on product improvement teams, or split hours with the workers who are WORKING or something? At least have them add value to the corporation SOMEHOW!
2) That these workers are actually willing to live this way. How pathetic must your life be for you to be satisfied collecting a decent wage for doing nothing? These people should be ASHAMED of themselves.
10-17-05 | 09:12 PM
#15
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 854
Likes: 10
From: UT
According to an article in this week's AutoWeek, it can cost a manufacturer more to close a plant than continuing to make cars and sell them at a loss. Why? Negotiated buy-outs of the work force.
Read the article, which was interesting to me at least. It only takes a few minutes.
Read the article, which was interesting to me at least. It only takes a few minutes.