Pavel

So my brakes all of the suden began dropping all the way down to the floor, only then i could get some braking power. I figured it might be time to bleed my brakes...did that, still no brakes. I figured it's the master cylinder. Before buying one I called dealership to make sure that was in fact the problem. They guy on the phone gave me a BS answer that didn't answer anything, and he told me i could bring it to them and they will check things out at $100 per hour. I figured he can go ***** himself for that kindof money. I went to another place that was also subaru specific, and they were charging me $35 for a check of my braking system. The guy calls me half an hour later and tells me that my frot pads are and i quote: "they are metal on metal" and that my system is full of air. So it will cost me $450 to get that fixed...and only then they can check my master cylinder, see if it failed. Since i only have half of that on my account I took the car home. Went out bought prake pads from Subaru for $190 (front and rear) and had my rotors up front resurfaced for about $15.
Guess what if find? The front pads just hit their warning line, and the metal thing that makes noise just began touching the rotor...check the rears, they have at least 50% life left in them. I figured fine...the guy at the subaru place exadurated a little bit. I start bleeding my brakes, and there are no bubles in there at all. WTF that guy was about to charge me $450 for a job that was not nessessary. Just another incident to prove that mechanics everywhere are greedy *** bastards that are full of **** when it comes to needed repairs. Now I got to go and buy a friggin master cylinder and put it on there. Why couldn't this stuff break 4 months down the road when the car is not mine anymore, and i would be proud owner of a GS4

Sorry to make this into such a long post. But be aware that MECHANICS ARE FULL OF ****.

UDel

I have been screwed over and ripped off a couple times by dishonest shady mechanics, even one with a AAA recommendation several times. I could write a couple pages on my horrible experiences. I dread taking my car anymore to mechanics that I do not know and trust because I generally know I will be overcharged especially for things that do not need to be done or replaced and my car will suddenly have or develope problems as soon as I get it back from them and they will have the nerve to try and charge me to look at and fix the problem that they purposely created to get more money out of me. I have luckily found an honest competent mechanic from a friends father but unfortunately he is located on the east coast. There are many important things you need in life and one of them is to know an honest competent mechanic and shop. I am sorry about your brake problems and hopefully you get everything fixed properly. I would confront the mechanic that wrongfully told you you need things replaced and threaten to call the BBB on him as well as notify everyone you know about his business practices. Not all mechanics and shops are bad but way too many are and it is an easy business to take advantage of people since most do not know enough about cars to know if they are being truthful or just BS you.

mmarshall

Part of this gets back to how mechanics ( or "Technicians" ) are hired and paid. Some are paid a flat salary. Others are paid by the job and the number of parts they replace, based on a standard "flat rate" set by a labor-charge book which may or may not be factory-approved. The factory-approved rates are generally set by the engineers who designed the car.....based on the number of labor-hours they estimate it will take to do things like change a water pump, timing belt, head gasket, etc.....and the actual price of the factory parts.

In general, the composition of dealership technicians is changing. For many years ( and I saw this myself ) the AVERAGE mechanic working in a dealer service shop was generally white, male, 20's-to-40's in age, somewhat redneck, with nude or topless girlie pinups on their lockers and tool chests ( mechanics must buy at least some of their own tools...they often are NOT furnished ), owned hopped-up, supercharged, and classic cars of American vintage ( even at foreign-nameplate dealerhips ) and either went drag-racing on Friday and Saturday nights after work or went to work maintaining their classic old cars.....which, of course, they had the entire shop's facilities for. Like it or not, THIS was the typical scenario....though by no means unanimous.

Today, of course, while there is still some of that left, things are changing. Not only is there a lot more diversity among the the mechanics themselves with females and non-whites, but the education level of today's shop technician ( usually at factory or ASE level) is MUCH higher. It has to be, with the increasing complexity of cars themselves and the proliferation of computer-controlled systems. It is rare to see lockers and tool chests today decorated with **** or semi-****......more attention is given to the physical appearances of the shops themselves. Service Managers are much more open with customers ( especially people like me who are car-knowledgeable ) , and in general it is a much more professional and consumer-oriented practice than it used to be.

However, as Pavel and UDel point out, there are still some places that either misdiagnose car problems, take advantage of labor repair rates, or forget thet they are there to serve their customers......many of whom spent good money at that dealership for their vehicles.....instead of just using those customers ( or the factory in the event of warranty-items ) as money-making machines.
The best way to choose a shop, in my experience, is either through previous experience ( especially if you know the Service Manager well ) or from word-of-mouth from other satisfied people. In fact, we have occasionally had threads here at CL that dealt with satisfction levels at dealerships and service.

got_trd

stop being so cheap... if you could of fixed it all along then why bother even taking it to the shop... simple as that

mmarshall

A good point....but remember that if the vehicle is still under warranty ( which Pavel didn't say ) you've got a good bargaining chip if you can point out that no one but dealership people touched it. Of course, this is not REQUIRED, but it still is a good idea....that way the factory cannot argue that the problem was caused by unqualified people or parts.

Pavel

I am not being cheap when it comes to certain things. The only reason why i took my car to that shop is because over the phone the person told me that it is highly uncommon for the master sylinder to go out on that car. So I did not want to spend money on a part that was not nessessary. For all that I know it could have been a vacuum leak or on of the sensors was not reading things properly. Also I have about 3 months worth of payments left. At that point the car will be sold and I will finally get my GS4. SO I don't see th epoint to pay close to 500 dollars and then additional 200+labor for the new master sylinder, knowing that i will not get my 800+ back when i sell the car. It is in my best interest to keep these particular repair costs as low as possible. But anyway, things are pretty much fixed now, the master sylinder will be here tomorrow and the car should be up and running by the thursday evening (fingers crossed)

mmarshall

Good............looks like this dealership is giving you a brake.

Pavel

oh the warranty expired 10K miles ago. Dealership quoted me $100/hour to figure out what the problem was.

newr

Not ALL mechanics are full of $#!T. Although I agree that some of them are. However, there are dishonest people in about any professions. I do all the work myself, not only that it saves me some $$$ but also I get a kick out of working on cars. I am lucky that I do know some good and honest mechanics when I need them.

However, I just don't see how $450 is a rip off for a front AND rear brake job? The front pads worn down to the indicator bar which had about 25% of padding material left but it was really down to "metal and metal" because of the indicator bar. If you intended to keep driving, not only you would need to change the pads but you would also need to replace with NEW rotors. You found the rear had about 50% but truely it only had about 25% because the indicator bar. Here is the cost break down.

$190 for pads
$15 for turning rotors. (20-30min)
$245 for tax and labor (abour 2hrs)
$450 Total

You have to remember the $100/hr does not go directly to the guy's pocket. He has to pay for the rental of the shop, utility, insurance, etc. and other associated operating costs. Then Uncle Sam takes another 30% of what they earn. Whatever $$$ left will feed him and his children.

What is so RIP OFF about it?

mmarshall

I agree with much of what you say...it is well-written. The main thing to remember with rotors is that whether you get new ones or resurfaced ones depends on several factors. First, how much metal is actually left on the rotor itself....at the point of MINIMUM thickness if the rotor is out-of-round. Second, the specifications for that car...( determined by brake engineers )...that specify the minimum thickness the rotors can safely have and still function properly. Third, the amount of metal the lathe is set to take off the rotors. Fourth, the ability and confidence level of the mechanic involved to do the job properly....and clean the rotors properly afterwards. Fifth, of course, is the difference in price between new and resurfaced rotors...it may be less bother....and sometimes less expense as well....to just put new ones on. Sixth, some cars need to have on-car turning of the rotors....and not all shops can do this.

newr

I learn something new everyday. May I ask which car(s) need on-car turning of the rotors? and why can't they be taken off from the vehicle for turning? Let me make a wild guess, these cars must be older than I am.

mmarshall

I don't have a list of all the affected cars, ( I know GM and Subaru do on some vehicles) but this not old..in fact it is a fairly new recommendation from some manufacturers so that when the rotor is re-surfaced, it is done under the conditions that it will actually be rolling under on the car. This supposedly gives a more accurate and longer-lasting finish.


Here is a website that explains the procedure further

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov2002/mech.cfm