Review: 2006 BMW 325i
11-12-05 | 07:00 AM
#16
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From: Canada
Originally Posted by mmarshall
The G35's handling, IMO, ( I have driven it ) is in the 3-series' league, mostly due to the wide tires and near 50 / 50 weight distribution, but not the steering feel. Conventional BMW power steering units have a unique, tactile, firm, contact-the-road feel that IMO is unequalled in any other line of cars....although Porsche and Mazda come closest.
11-12-05 | 08:32 AM
#17
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From: ON
I have to agree with AmethySC and mmarshall.
I've picked the G35 series twice (one coupe, one sedan) so obviously I think it's a great car. I like the styling (even of the sedan!), I like the power, transmission, reliabilty and strong re-sale, and ya I like the handling too. That said, BMW's (imo) still have better steering response/road feel. I think the G35 is one of the best Japanese handling non-roadsters I've driven and now that I've added some aftermarket sways and springs my sedan really is a very fun car to drive - but compared to our stock 330i it's still a little outclassed in that department. We probably wouldn't have bought the 330i had it not been sold under the circumstances it was, but since we did I will admit that it has illustrated to me that BMW definitely has one of the best built/tuned chassis in the industry.
You know it is funny, though - my wife and I fight over the G35. We like the BMW and it's been pretty reliable, but I think overall the combination of power and handling is what draws us both to the G. In fact we're selling one of them in the next 6 months and it looks like it will be the 330i, even though it has less km. I just don't want to own it out of warranty and I'm not worried about the G35 out of warranty.
I've picked the G35 series twice (one coupe, one sedan) so obviously I think it's a great car. I like the styling (even of the sedan!), I like the power, transmission, reliabilty and strong re-sale, and ya I like the handling too. That said, BMW's (imo) still have better steering response/road feel. I think the G35 is one of the best Japanese handling non-roadsters I've driven and now that I've added some aftermarket sways and springs my sedan really is a very fun car to drive - but compared to our stock 330i it's still a little outclassed in that department. We probably wouldn't have bought the 330i had it not been sold under the circumstances it was, but since we did I will admit that it has illustrated to me that BMW definitely has one of the best built/tuned chassis in the industry.
You know it is funny, though - my wife and I fight over the G35. We like the BMW and it's been pretty reliable, but I think overall the combination of power and handling is what draws us both to the G. In fact we're selling one of them in the next 6 months and it looks like it will be the 330i, even though it has less km. I just don't want to own it out of warranty and I'm not worried about the G35 out of warranty.
11-12-05 | 09:58 AM
#19
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From: Michigan
Excellent coverage of the new 3's plusses and minuses.
I've driven the 330 six-speed without active steering and the 325i automatic with it.
My seat of the pants cannot tell a huge difference between the new 325 and 330. They're both 3.0-liter engines now, and the 330's is so deceptively smooth that it doesn't feel as quick as it is. Not necessarily a good thing.
Compared to the new 325, the IS 250 is a dog. Lexus needs to make the 3.0 from the GS the base engine. The new IS is too heavy for the 2.5.
Active steering helps a bit in some situations, but the standard steering is already quick and provides a bit more feedback, so I wouldn't pay the extra $1,500 for it.
I've test driven about 400 cars over the last six years. The new 3 is one of the few that I could drive quickly and confidently down a twisty road right off the bat. The only other car that handles so intuitively is the RX-8, with the BMW 545i six-speed just a bit behind these two.
One thing that makes the BMWs and Mazda so easy to drive is a stability control system that intervenes when necessary but that can barely be detected when it does.
Having the right engineers isn't the problem What is? Having an organization that takes the time and money to do what the chassis experts say should be done.
I've driven the 330 six-speed without active steering and the 325i automatic with it.
My seat of the pants cannot tell a huge difference between the new 325 and 330. They're both 3.0-liter engines now, and the 330's is so deceptively smooth that it doesn't feel as quick as it is. Not necessarily a good thing.
Compared to the new 325, the IS 250 is a dog. Lexus needs to make the 3.0 from the GS the base engine. The new IS is too heavy for the 2.5.
Active steering helps a bit in some situations, but the standard steering is already quick and provides a bit more feedback, so I wouldn't pay the extra $1,500 for it.
I've test driven about 400 cars over the last six years. The new 3 is one of the few that I could drive quickly and confidently down a twisty road right off the bat. The only other car that handles so intuitively is the RX-8, with the BMW 545i six-speed just a bit behind these two.
One thing that makes the BMWs and Mazda so easy to drive is a stability control system that intervenes when necessary but that can barely be detected when it does.
Having the right engineers isn't the problem What is? Having an organization that takes the time and money to do what the chassis experts say should be done.
Last edited by mkaresh; 11-12-05 at 05:33 PM.
11-12-05 | 10:17 AM
#20
Well, maybe I haven't driven the 3 series enough to appreciate it's steering feel, but as far as handling goes, the G35 certainly felt better. As far as I know the G35 constantly scored better in slalom and skidpad in magazie tests.
But I see what guys are saying, I've driven plenty of great handling cars but their steering feel sucked. The two prime example would be a modified Honda Civic and a Crown Vic with police package.
The civic had all the sway bars, LSD, coilovers and holy **** it sticked to the road, but the steering wheel was very unresponsive. Maybe it had to do with FWD.
The Crown Vic, with its floaty ride and super soft steering, much to my amusement easily ripped through tight corners at fast speed. Sure, maybe not as good as G35 or other sports sedans, but defenately better than any full size sedan. The only problem is that the rear was too easy to get loose if you give it too much gas.
But I see what guys are saying, I've driven plenty of great handling cars but their steering feel sucked. The two prime example would be a modified Honda Civic and a Crown Vic with police package.
The civic had all the sway bars, LSD, coilovers and holy **** it sticked to the road, but the steering wheel was very unresponsive. Maybe it had to do with FWD.
The Crown Vic, with its floaty ride and super soft steering, much to my amusement easily ripped through tight corners at fast speed. Sure, maybe not as good as G35 or other sports sedans, but defenately better than any full size sedan. The only problem is that the rear was too easy to get loose if you give it too much gas.
11-12-05 | 11:20 AM
#21
Great review mmarshall.
If you like precision driving, aren't usually in bumper to bumper traffic, and don't need a ton of room, a 3 series is a great car.
One question mmarshall - did you check out rear seat room? That's one thing I was a bit shocked about on the new IS which has miniscule rear seat leg and foot room.
If you like precision driving, aren't usually in bumper to bumper traffic, and don't need a ton of room, a 3 series is a great car.
One question mmarshall - did you check out rear seat room? That's one thing I was a bit shocked about on the new IS which has miniscule rear seat leg and foot room.
11-12-05 | 12:15 PM
#22
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
Great review mmarshall.
If you like precision driving, aren't usually in bumper to bumper traffic, and don't need a ton of room, a 3 series is a great car.
One question mmarshall - did you check out rear seat room? That's one thing I was a bit shocked about on the new IS which has miniscule rear seat leg and foot room.
If you like precision driving, aren't usually in bumper to bumper traffic, and don't need a ton of room, a 3 series is a great car.
One question mmarshall - did you check out rear seat room? That's one thing I was a bit shocked about on the new IS which has miniscule rear seat leg and foot room.
Don't forget...the 3-series and IS are both RWD ( or AWD ) and one of the consequences of a RWD design is a wider transmission and driveshaft tunnel and less space efficiency inside.
11-12-05 | 05:35 PM
#23
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From: Michigan
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Room in back, as in the trunk, was about average for this class...which means don't expect it to be like a long-wheelbase VW Phaeton or Audi A8. While, of course, there isn't a huge amount of leg or shoulder room in tiis size sedan class, BMW puts a lot of effort into designing seats....one of the few things they still do right with the Chris Bangle designs. The rear ones, of course, don't have quite the support and bolstering that the front ones have...( and smooth leather is almost always going to be slippery ) and of course you have to deal with the sloping rear roofline.....but I've seen lots worse.
Don't forget...the 3-series and IS are both RWD ( or AWD ) and one of the consequences of a RWD design is a wider transmission and driveshaft tunnel and less space efficiency inside.
Don't forget...the 3-series and IS are both RWD ( or AWD ) and one of the consequences of a RWD design is a wider transmission and driveshaft tunnel and less space efficiency inside.
11-13-05 | 08:43 AM
#24
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by mkaresh
RWD isn't nearly as bad for space efficiency as many people think--as long as you have an independent rear suspension. When Detroit switched to FWD, it was comparing FWD to RWD with a live axle, which requires a much taller tunnel. And this comparison lingers in the public memory. Note that many FWD cars have been converted to AWD without requiring a higher bump in the floor.
11-13-05 | 08:48 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
The 3-series BMW has been enormously popular throughout the years, especially on the East and West coasts, and not without reason. It has been the quintessial sports-sedan, and not only has consistantly outsold its competition but, in the opinion of many people and organizations, has been the benchmark and has set the standards for this class of vehicles. while, of course, many people lust after the M3, the 325i, 328i, and 330i are really the bread-and-butter cars, not only for the 3-series line but for BMW as a whole, especially in the American market. While these cars, in some ways, are best appreciated with manual transmissions, the increasing congestion on today's roads almost everywhere.......especially in my D.C. area and in SoCal..... dictates that the majority, if not most, of these cars are now sold with sport-shift automatics....so that is the way I checked this one out, although some high-performance BMW's get the clutchless SMT (Sequential Manual Transmission) . In addition, I wanted to see if the latest version of I-Drive in the new 3-Series is any better than the infamous ones in the 5 and 7-series versions that have brought so much criticism ( it isn't , as you'll see in a minute ) so I deliberately picked a model with I-Drive and NAV ( it comes together as a package ). I also wanted to just see in general how much this car compares with the earlier, superlative 3-Series, especially since BMW has publically stated that this new 3-series would not be as radically altered as the previous Chris Bangle cars.
So....here are my impressions of the car...both good and bad.
Model Tested: 2006 BMW 325i, automatic, I-Drive-NAV package.
MSRP: $41,975
PLUSSES
STILL the Ultimate Driving Machine.....Best-in-Class power steering and chassis dynamics.
The least-objectionable Chris Bangle product yet in the American market.
Remarkable ride-handling combination; firm, well-controlled ride without being harsh despite the low-profile tires.
Responsive automatic transmission in both full-automatic and auto-shift modes without being harsh.
Plenty of room inside and good driving position even for tall drivers and a sunroof.
Well-designed, supportive seats.
Lots of little luxury touches....such as the power-folding outside mirrors.
Gas struts for hood....no cheap prop rods.
Firm, well-designed, effective brakes....even without Brembos.
Clear, round, simple, easy-to-read primary gauges directly in front of the driver.
Well-applied paint.
Starter-button eliminates fumbling around with keys.
Fat, small-diameter, meaty, well-padded steering wheel a delight to hold and use.
MINUSES
I-Drive STILL the Ultimate Frustration Machine.
NAV system difficult to program.
No underhood oil dipstick...you must rely on electronics for even the oil level.
Questionable value at nearly 42K.....although there are cheaper versions without the I-Drive / NAV package.
So-so overall build quality.
$475 extra for Titanium Silver paint?
An insult to ones's intelligence.
Interior hardware not up to a car of this price range.
Poorly-designed and possibly hazardous cup-holders.
Flimsy, cheaply-designed stalks on the steering column.
Snooty dealerships.
Once you get past the traditionally rather snooty and so-so greeting you usually get at BMW shops ( although the guy I dealt with was fairly nice, it still is a long way from Lexus and Saturn shops ) my first impression of this car was that it was built, first and foremost, for the twisties and for steering feel, and relatively little attention given to much else except electronic gizmos. . So, yes, in that sense, it is still the Ultimate Driving Machine. But, boy, WHAT a steering system. BMW engineers just seem to have a magic touch for designing power-steering and chassis dynamics that no one else in the industry seems to have. You can practically drive this car blindfolded just by feel alone. And the suspension, despite low-profile tires, does not beat you up either while transmitting this magical road-feel and response.
Unfortunately, the rest of the interior, despite the well-designed, clear, gauges and seats, leaves a lot to be desired. I-Drive?......STILL a mess and STILL just as frustrating as the versions in big-brother 5 and 7-series cars, despite reports in the auto press to the contrary....at least that was my impression. I would never have this POS of an electronic system in any car I owned ( sorry, genearch....I know you like it but I strongly disagree ). Even the salesperson......who sells these cars for a living.....had problems figuring it out. The NAV system was not quite so bad but still was more complex than necessary. The sound system was better-than-average for a German-designed car but still not up to Lexus sound levels.
The interior hardware, except for the steering wheel, which was superb, IMO was disappointing for a car in the 35-to-40K and up price range...though I have seen worse, especially in the Ford Mustang. The steering column-mounted stalks were especially flimsy-feeling.
The two front cupholders are recessed into the right-side dash just above the glovebox...you press on them and the left one comes popping back out at an angle and the right one straight back out. Though they have a curved-side designs, the sharp, blunt corners could possibly hurt or bruise you if you went forward into them while they were extended and the airbag or belt didn't cushion you.
On the road.....I have already described and praised the steering system and the chassis / suspension ...no need to add anything on that here. Noise levels were pleasantly low at cruise, and the dual exhausts were noticeable but not too much so. Brakes, even for non-Brembos, in the BMW tradition were superb. Power level in the engine was adequate, but this car is not a drag-racer....about equivalent to the Lexus IS250 , perhaps its closest competition, with almost identical HP and torque figures.
So, in a nutshell......if you want the best ( and I mean the BEST ) in sedan driving dynamics, a sedan you can practically wear like a glove, and don't mind so-so build quality, snooty dealerships, and the possibility of serious problems and expenses after the warranty is gone.....here's your ride, whether it is the 325i or stronger-engine versions of the 3-Series.
Just avoid the I-Drive ( which, fortunately you can do in this car and save money to boot ) if you want to keep your sanity. Avoiding the I-Drive in this car means avoiding the NAV also.....fine... avoid them both. This car is not cheap either, for its size...although it comes with a lot of nice little touches, I don't consider it a particularly good value, even in the cheaper versions that don't list for almost $42,000 like this one did. The archrival Lexus IS250, for example, not only substantially undercuts this car's price, even with AWD, but blows it away as well with its build quality and refinement....but the IS cannot equal this car's driving dynamics, which, yes, STILL set the standard for compact sports sedans.................Chris Bangle or not.
So....here are my impressions of the car...both good and bad.
Model Tested: 2006 BMW 325i, automatic, I-Drive-NAV package.
MSRP: $41,975
PLUSSES
STILL the Ultimate Driving Machine.....Best-in-Class power steering and chassis dynamics.
The least-objectionable Chris Bangle product yet in the American market.
Remarkable ride-handling combination; firm, well-controlled ride without being harsh despite the low-profile tires.
Responsive automatic transmission in both full-automatic and auto-shift modes without being harsh.
Plenty of room inside and good driving position even for tall drivers and a sunroof.
Well-designed, supportive seats.
Lots of little luxury touches....such as the power-folding outside mirrors.
Gas struts for hood....no cheap prop rods.
Firm, well-designed, effective brakes....even without Brembos.
Clear, round, simple, easy-to-read primary gauges directly in front of the driver.
Well-applied paint.
Starter-button eliminates fumbling around with keys.
Fat, small-diameter, meaty, well-padded steering wheel a delight to hold and use.
MINUSES
I-Drive STILL the Ultimate Frustration Machine.
NAV system difficult to program.
No underhood oil dipstick...you must rely on electronics for even the oil level.
Questionable value at nearly 42K.....although there are cheaper versions without the I-Drive / NAV package.
So-so overall build quality.
$475 extra for Titanium Silver paint?
An insult to ones's intelligence.Interior hardware not up to a car of this price range.
Poorly-designed and possibly hazardous cup-holders.
Flimsy, cheaply-designed stalks on the steering column.
Snooty dealerships.
Once you get past the traditionally rather snooty and so-so greeting you usually get at BMW shops ( although the guy I dealt with was fairly nice, it still is a long way from Lexus and Saturn shops ) my first impression of this car was that it was built, first and foremost, for the twisties and for steering feel, and relatively little attention given to much else except electronic gizmos. . So, yes, in that sense, it is still the Ultimate Driving Machine. But, boy, WHAT a steering system.
BMW engineers just seem to have a magic touch for designing power-steering and chassis dynamics that no one else in the industry seems to have. You can practically drive this car blindfolded just by feel alone. And the suspension, despite low-profile tires, does not beat you up either while transmitting this magical road-feel and response. Unfortunately, the rest of the interior, despite the well-designed, clear, gauges and seats, leaves a lot to be desired. I-Drive?......STILL a mess and STILL just as frustrating as the versions in big-brother 5 and 7-series cars, despite reports in the auto press to the contrary....at least that was my impression. I would never have this POS of an electronic system in any car I owned ( sorry, genearch....I know you like it but I strongly disagree ). Even the salesperson......who sells these cars for a living.....had problems figuring it out. The NAV system was not quite so bad but still was more complex than necessary. The sound system was better-than-average for a German-designed car but still not up to Lexus sound levels.
The interior hardware, except for the steering wheel, which was superb, IMO was disappointing for a car in the 35-to-40K and up price range...though I have seen worse, especially in the Ford Mustang. The steering column-mounted stalks were especially flimsy-feeling.
The two front cupholders are recessed into the right-side dash just above the glovebox...you press on them and the left one comes popping back out at an angle and the right one straight back out. Though they have a curved-side designs, the sharp, blunt corners could possibly hurt or bruise you if you went forward into them while they were extended and the airbag or belt didn't cushion you.
On the road.....I have already described and praised the steering system and the chassis / suspension ...no need to add anything on that here. Noise levels were pleasantly low at cruise, and the dual exhausts were noticeable but not too much so. Brakes, even for non-Brembos, in the BMW tradition were superb. Power level in the engine was adequate, but this car is not a drag-racer....about equivalent to the Lexus IS250 , perhaps its closest competition, with almost identical HP and torque figures.
So, in a nutshell......if you want the best ( and I mean the BEST ) in sedan driving dynamics, a sedan you can practically wear like a glove, and don't mind so-so build quality, snooty dealerships, and the possibility of serious problems and expenses after the warranty is gone.....here's your ride, whether it is the 325i or stronger-engine versions of the 3-Series.
Just avoid the I-Drive ( which, fortunately you can do in this car and save money to boot ) if you want to keep your sanity. Avoiding the I-Drive in this car means avoiding the NAV also.....fine... avoid them both. This car is not cheap either, for its size...although it comes with a lot of nice little touches, I don't consider it a particularly good value, even in the cheaper versions that don't list for almost $42,000 like this one did. The archrival Lexus IS250, for example, not only substantially undercuts this car's price, even with AWD, but blows it away as well with its build quality and refinement....but the IS cannot equal this car's driving dynamics, which, yes, STILL set the standard for compact sports sedans.................Chris Bangle or not.
$42000 for a 325 is nuts, CRAZY, ridiculous.
Great review, the car is the top drivers car. I too think the extras (I-drive, active blah blah etc) takes AWAY from the experience, not just with BMWs but with all cars.
The days of a manual, LSD only cars are done!
11-13-05 | 09:04 AM
#26
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,624
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
$42000 for a 325 is nuts, CRAZY, ridiculous.
Great review, the car is the top drivers car. I too think the extras (I-drive, active blah blah etc) takes AWAY from the experience, not just with BMWs but with all cars.
!
Great review, the car is the top drivers car. I too think the extras (I-drive, active blah blah etc) takes AWAY from the experience, not just with BMWs but with all cars.
!
11-13-05 | 10:26 AM
#28
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 91,624
Likes: 89
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by Incendiary
The MB dealers are snottier than the BMW dealers, in my experience...
11-13-05 | 08:12 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,854
Likes: 0
From: IL
I personally love the BMW turn signals - tap down and they stay on for 3 seconds, hold for a second and they stay on until you turn.
It is true that a well equipped 325 is close in price to the 330 (like $4K dif max) - I think the only way to do a 325 is a stripper and if you want the goodies, just get the 330.
Both of the BMW dealers I've dealt with have been more approachable than the Lexus dealers.
However, you are correct; none of these guys can show the I-Drive the way an owner of the car can. A friend of mine showed me I-Drive and I became a believer that it is better than most people think. But I tell you, the sales people sure don't spend time with it.
In fact, kudos to my Infiniti sales guy, the one guy who made me do all the work and showed me how easy their car was to work and shame on the BMW guys who insisted on working the I-Drive and doing it badly and damn you Lexus for making the car so simple to use that the sales guy didn't need to show me anything.
It is true that a well equipped 325 is close in price to the 330 (like $4K dif max) - I think the only way to do a 325 is a stripper and if you want the goodies, just get the 330.
Both of the BMW dealers I've dealt with have been more approachable than the Lexus dealers.
However, you are correct; none of these guys can show the I-Drive the way an owner of the car can. A friend of mine showed me I-Drive and I became a believer that it is better than most people think. But I tell you, the sales people sure don't spend time with it.
In fact, kudos to my Infiniti sales guy, the one guy who made me do all the work and showed me how easy their car was to work and shame on the BMW guys who insisted on working the I-Drive and doing it badly and damn you Lexus for making the car so simple to use that the sales guy didn't need to show me anything.
11-13-05 | 08:16 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by doug_999
I personally love the BMW turn signals - tap down and they stay on for 3 seconds, hold for a second and they stay on until you turn.
It is true that a well equipped 325 is close in price to the 330 (like $4K dif max) - I think the only way to do a 325 is a stripper and if you want the goodies, just get the 330.
Both of the BMW dealers I've dealt with have been more approachable than the Lexus dealers.
However, you are correct; none of these guys can show the I-Drive the way an owner of the car can. A friend of mine showed me I-Drive and I became a believer that it is better than most people think. But I tell you, the sales people sure don't spend time with it.
In fact, kudos to my Infiniti sales guy, the one guy who made me do all the work and showed me how easy their car was to work and shame on the BMW guys who insisted on working the I-Drive and doing it badly and damn you Lexus for making the car so simple to use that the sales guy didn't need to show me anything.
It is true that a well equipped 325 is close in price to the 330 (like $4K dif max) - I think the only way to do a 325 is a stripper and if you want the goodies, just get the 330.
Both of the BMW dealers I've dealt with have been more approachable than the Lexus dealers.
However, you are correct; none of these guys can show the I-Drive the way an owner of the car can. A friend of mine showed me I-Drive and I became a believer that it is better than most people think. But I tell you, the sales people sure don't spend time with it.
In fact, kudos to my Infiniti sales guy, the one guy who made me do all the work and showed me how easy their car was to work and shame on the BMW guys who insisted on working the I-Drive and doing it badly and damn you Lexus for making the car so simple to use that the sales guy didn't need to show me anything.