View Poll Results: GS 300 AWD or GS 430?
GS 300 AWD
10
25.64%
GS430
29
74.36%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll
GS 300 AWD or GS430?
12-22-05, 09:21 PM
#1
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GS 300 AWD or GS430?
Hi everyone 
Happy Holidays to everyone!!!
I am looking for a new car. I live in New York City so all you Northeast people know how nasty the winters can be.
So I have a few questions.
#1. Is an AWD vehicle very important to have in the Northeast? In other words, if I drive the GS 300 AWD, will I be much much safer (when driving in the snow or ice or rain) compared to the GS430?
#2. I am not into racing. So horsepower is not important to me. I'm a very boring driver.
Should I go with the GS300 AWD or shall I pay an extra $6500 (which I do not mind doing) and go with the GS430?
Thank you for your time and help. Happy Holidays to all of you!!!
Happy Holidays to everyone!!!
I am looking for a new car. I live in New York City so all you Northeast people know how nasty the winters can be.
So I have a few questions.
#1. Is an AWD vehicle very important to have in the Northeast? In other words, if I drive the GS 300 AWD, will I be much much safer (when driving in the snow or ice or rain) compared to the GS430?
#2. I am not into racing. So horsepower is not important to me. I'm a very boring driver.
Should I go with the GS300 AWD or shall I pay an extra $6500 (which I do not mind doing) and go with the GS430?
Thank you for your time and help. Happy Holidays to all of you!!!
12-22-05, 10:45 PM
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from what your saying it sounds like you would be perfectly happy with the gs300awd. the gs430 is great if you want to go fast, but in NYC as far as I know you don't get much of anywhere fast. I will say that AWD is not a must but from the gs's past winter history I'd say you'll be safer with AWD. Both my parents own BMWs with awd (im located in syracuse) and you just cant beat it in the winter, it really helps along with todays advanced stability controls.
12-23-05, 12:47 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by MY GS300
Hi everyone
I am looking for a new car. I live in New York City so all you Northeast people know how nasty the winters can be.
So I have a few questions.
#1. Is an AWD vehicle very important to have in the Northeast? In other words, if I drive the GS 300 AWD, will I be much much safer (when driving in the snow or ice or rain) compared to the GS430?
#2. I am not into racing. So horsepower is not important to me. I'm a very boring driver.
Should I go with the GS300 AWD or shall I pay an extra $6500 (which I do not mind doing) and go with the GS430?
:
I am looking for a new car. I live in New York City so all you Northeast people know how nasty the winters can be.
So I have a few questions.
#1. Is an AWD vehicle very important to have in the Northeast? In other words, if I drive the GS 300 AWD, will I be much much safer (when driving in the snow or ice or rain) compared to the GS430?
#2. I am not into racing. So horsepower is not important to me. I'm a very boring driver.
Should I go with the GS300 AWD or shall I pay an extra $6500 (which I do not mind doing) and go with the GS430?
:
You are not a boring driver at all. Your wallet, your insurance policy, your driving record, and maybe even your drivers' license will thank you down the road.Is AWD important to have where you live? Yes and no. It must be remembered that AWD offers more benefits than just traction on snow. As you point out, it also helps quite a bit in the rain......my AWD Outback has not spun either its front or rear tires once on wet roads ( or on snow ), something my rear-drive Lexus IS300 did quite often, even with its electronic traction aids. AWD also spreads the vehicle's weight distribution out more evenly front-to-rear, spreads the power out as needed and as the center differential's wheel slippage sensors determine, and in some cases can help equalize tire wear among the 4 tires. Each AWD system is different and unique. Subaru, for example, uses 5 different systems depending on the vehicle's engine and transmission. AWD can also, in some cases enhance cornering on dry pavement, although probably not the way you drive.....you really have to push an AWD vehicle in dry corners to see any real benefits.....and on a dry surface, AWD generally inhibits the " drifting " and " powersliding " which is so popular with speed freaks.
Now...it it needed in New York City? NYC, of course, does not have winters as severe as further upstate in NY......Buffalo, Watertown, Rochester, and Syracuse in particular are horrible near Lakes Erie and Ontario....and the roads are torn up and full of deep potholes as well. AWD there in some ways is a must. But NYC can get pretty nasty sometimes.....and you also get heavy rains there from coastal storms. Regular snowstorms are a part of NYC winters, and occasional one-to-two-foot blizzards occur , especially a short distance inland from the coast. So, in my judgement you will not go wrong getting an AWD vehicle in the NYC area.....though of course, it is not as critical as further inland.
I personally think the GS300AWD is a wise investment....though, admittedly, it is not cheap. It is an absolutely superb vehicle in many ways, with impeccable quality and refinement. I did a review on it last March and found it superb but somewhat pricey. About the only real complaints IMO were the low roofline and the little flip-out-box that houses the power mirror controls...that box , when open, can hit your left knee uncomfortably. As to your question of will the GS300 will be safer in foul weather than the GS430, the answer, of course, in general, will be yes.....but the the exact amount of added traction will depend on what kind of tires they stick on at the cars at the factory and how well you maintain the tire pressures.
Which brings us to one of AWD's disadvantages. It is important.....even crucial in some cases....with AWD, to maintain the exact recommended pressures. This is because the recommended pressures are determined by the vehicle's weight distribution, amount of load each tire gets, how many rotations that the front and rear tires make at a given speed at that pressure, and how it affects the center differential with its wheel-slippage sensors. If the pressures in the 4 tires get very far out of recommended ranges, the center differential gets a lot of premature wear and builds up heat continually trying to adjust the torque front-rear (and even side-to-side with some systems like on the Acura SH AWD RL ). AWD also has the disadvantage of being more complex ( Subaru generally has the least complex and most dependable systems) , needing more service and inspections. For example, there are more boots, CV joints, and universal joints to inspect...and 2-3 differentials to change fluids on instead of just one. And in general AWD's added weight and drag will affect the car's gas mileage, on average, about 2 MPG or so and cut a little off acceleration times....although with you that does not matter, as you are not a fast driver. With a flat tire, you also have to follow the recommended procedure in the Owners' Manual religiously to avoid undue wear on the center differential...this sometimes means disabling the AWD and converting it to FWD or RWD by pulling a fuse....a fuse puller is provided.
Also, you don't have to spend the kind of money the GS300AWD runs ( 45-50K ) to get a good AWD car.....there are less-expensive options, even from Lexus, and several superb ones for the money from Subaru. If you want, we can discuss those further.....unless you really got your heart set on a GS300 AWD......and you certainly cannot go wrong with one even for 45-50K.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-23-05 at 01:16 AM.
12-23-05, 04:58 AM
#4
Lexus Champion
Regarding your question...
Since your driving style indicates that HP is not an issue but safety is, I would opt for a non-LExus AWD and save a ton of money.
The GS430 with its lovely torque and smooth power would be my car of choice and knocks out the GS3 AWD....
IF you MUST have the luxury with AWD then by all means go gs3awd
Since your driving style indicates that HP is not an issue but safety is, I would opt for a non-LExus AWD and save a ton of money.
The GS430 with its lovely torque and smooth power would be my car of choice and knocks out the GS3 AWD....
IF you MUST have the luxury with AWD then by all means go gs3awd
12-23-05, 06:56 AM
#5
I live in northern Ohio and I have a GS300 AWD. The car's been excellent in the snow, even with the Dunlop run flat tires. I haven't driven it on much ice so I can't comment on that aspect.
I would absolutely recommend AWD for areas with significant snow fall. I used to have a RWD Mercedes E320 and it was horrible in the winter unless I used dedicated snow tires all the way around. If it wasn't for AWD on the GS I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't need the power of the GS430, and I liked the gas mileage of the GS300 AWD.
You might get more response on your question if you post it in the 3rd Generation GS forum.
I would absolutely recommend AWD for areas with significant snow fall. I used to have a RWD Mercedes E320 and it was horrible in the winter unless I used dedicated snow tires all the way around. If it wasn't for AWD on the GS I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't need the power of the GS430, and I liked the gas mileage of the GS300 AWD.
You might get more response on your question if you post it in the 3rd Generation GS forum.
12-24-05, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
First, congragulations on being a courteous, sensible, safe driver. You get 5 stars in my book. You are not a boring driver at all. Your wallet, your insurance policy, your driving record, and maybe even your drivers' license will thank you down the road.
Is AWD important to have where you live? Yes and no. It must be remembered that AWD offers more benefits than just traction on snow. As you point out, it also helps quite a bit in the rain......my AWD Outback has not spun either its front or rear tires once on wet roads ( or on snow ), something my rear-drive Lexus IS300 did quite often, even with its electronic traction aids. AWD also spreads the vehicle's weight distribution out more evenly front-to-rear, spreads the power out as needed and as the center differential's wheel slippage sensors determine, and in some cases can help equalize tire wear among the 4 tires. Each AWD system is different and unique. Subaru, for example, uses 5 different systems depending on the vehicle's engine and transmission. AWD can also, in some cases enhance cornering on dry pavement, although probably not the way you drive.....you really have to push an AWD vehicle in dry corners to see any real benefits.....and on a dry surface, AWD generally inhibits the " drifting " and " powersliding " which is so popular with speed freaks.
Now...it it needed in New York City? NYC, of course, does not have winters as severe as further upstate in NY......Buffalo, Watertown, Rochester, and Syracuse in particular are horrible near Lakes Erie and Ontario....and the roads are torn up and full of deep potholes as well. AWD there in some ways is a must. But NYC can get pretty nasty sometimes.....and you also get heavy rains there from coastal storms. Regular snowstorms are a part of NYC winters, and occasional one-to-two-foot blizzards occur , especially a short distance inland from the coast. So, in my judgement you will not go wrong getting an AWD vehicle in the NYC area.....though of course, it is not as critical as further inland.
I personally think the GS300AWD is a wise investment....though, admittedly, it is not cheap. It is an absolutely superb vehicle in many ways, with impeccable quality and refinement. I did a review on it last March and found it superb but somewhat pricey. About the only real complaints IMO were the low roofline and the little flip-out-box that houses the power mirror controls...that box , when open, can hit your left knee uncomfortably. As to your question of will the GS300 will be safer in foul weather than the GS430, the answer, of course, in general, will be yes.....but the the exact amount of added traction will depend on what kind of tires they stick on at the cars at the factory and how well you maintain the tire pressures.
Which brings us to one of AWD's disadvantages. It is important.....even crucial in some cases....with AWD, to maintain the exact recommended pressures. This is because the recommended pressures are determined by the vehicle's weight distribution, amount of load each tire gets, how many rotations that the front and rear tires make at a given speed at that pressure, and how it affects the center differential with its wheel-slippage sensors. If the pressures in the 4 tires get very far out of recommended ranges, the center differential gets a lot of premature wear and builds up heat continually trying to adjust the torque front-rear (and even side-to-side with some systems like on the Acura SH AWD RL ). AWD also has the disadvantage of being more complex ( Subaru generally has the least complex and most dependable systems) , needing more service and inspections. For example, there are more boots, CV joints, and universal joints to inspect...and 2-3 differentials to change fluids on instead of just one. And in general AWD's added weight and drag will affect the car's gas mileage, on average, about 2 MPG or so and cut a little off acceleration times....although with you that does not matter, as you are not a fast driver. With a flat tire, you also have to follow the recommended procedure in the Owners' Manual religiously to avoid undue wear on the center differential...this sometimes means disabling the AWD and converting it to FWD or RWD by pulling a fuse....a fuse puller is provided.
Also, you don't have to spend the kind of money the GS300AWD runs ( 45-50K ) to get a good AWD car.....there are less-expensive options, even from Lexus, and several superb ones for the money from Subaru. If you want, we can discuss those further.....unless you really got your heart set on a GS300 AWD......and you certainly cannot go wrong with one even for 45-50K.
You are not a boring driver at all. Your wallet, your insurance policy, your driving record, and maybe even your drivers' license will thank you down the road.Is AWD important to have where you live? Yes and no. It must be remembered that AWD offers more benefits than just traction on snow. As you point out, it also helps quite a bit in the rain......my AWD Outback has not spun either its front or rear tires once on wet roads ( or on snow ), something my rear-drive Lexus IS300 did quite often, even with its electronic traction aids. AWD also spreads the vehicle's weight distribution out more evenly front-to-rear, spreads the power out as needed and as the center differential's wheel slippage sensors determine, and in some cases can help equalize tire wear among the 4 tires. Each AWD system is different and unique. Subaru, for example, uses 5 different systems depending on the vehicle's engine and transmission. AWD can also, in some cases enhance cornering on dry pavement, although probably not the way you drive.....you really have to push an AWD vehicle in dry corners to see any real benefits.....and on a dry surface, AWD generally inhibits the " drifting " and " powersliding " which is so popular with speed freaks.
Now...it it needed in New York City? NYC, of course, does not have winters as severe as further upstate in NY......Buffalo, Watertown, Rochester, and Syracuse in particular are horrible near Lakes Erie and Ontario....and the roads are torn up and full of deep potholes as well. AWD there in some ways is a must. But NYC can get pretty nasty sometimes.....and you also get heavy rains there from coastal storms. Regular snowstorms are a part of NYC winters, and occasional one-to-two-foot blizzards occur , especially a short distance inland from the coast. So, in my judgement you will not go wrong getting an AWD vehicle in the NYC area.....though of course, it is not as critical as further inland.
I personally think the GS300AWD is a wise investment....though, admittedly, it is not cheap. It is an absolutely superb vehicle in many ways, with impeccable quality and refinement. I did a review on it last March and found it superb but somewhat pricey. About the only real complaints IMO were the low roofline and the little flip-out-box that houses the power mirror controls...that box , when open, can hit your left knee uncomfortably. As to your question of will the GS300 will be safer in foul weather than the GS430, the answer, of course, in general, will be yes.....but the the exact amount of added traction will depend on what kind of tires they stick on at the cars at the factory and how well you maintain the tire pressures.
Which brings us to one of AWD's disadvantages. It is important.....even crucial in some cases....with AWD, to maintain the exact recommended pressures. This is because the recommended pressures are determined by the vehicle's weight distribution, amount of load each tire gets, how many rotations that the front and rear tires make at a given speed at that pressure, and how it affects the center differential with its wheel-slippage sensors. If the pressures in the 4 tires get very far out of recommended ranges, the center differential gets a lot of premature wear and builds up heat continually trying to adjust the torque front-rear (and even side-to-side with some systems like on the Acura SH AWD RL ). AWD also has the disadvantage of being more complex ( Subaru generally has the least complex and most dependable systems) , needing more service and inspections. For example, there are more boots, CV joints, and universal joints to inspect...and 2-3 differentials to change fluids on instead of just one. And in general AWD's added weight and drag will affect the car's gas mileage, on average, about 2 MPG or so and cut a little off acceleration times....although with you that does not matter, as you are not a fast driver. With a flat tire, you also have to follow the recommended procedure in the Owners' Manual religiously to avoid undue wear on the center differential...this sometimes means disabling the AWD and converting it to FWD or RWD by pulling a fuse....a fuse puller is provided.
Also, you don't have to spend the kind of money the GS300AWD runs ( 45-50K ) to get a good AWD car.....there are less-expensive options, even from Lexus, and several superb ones for the money from Subaru. If you want, we can discuss those further.....unless you really got your heart set on a GS300 AWD......and you certainly cannot go wrong with one even for 45-50K.
For me, AWD boils down to:
Pros: better ability to accelerate from standstill stops and on hills, "increased grip" when cornering
Cons: extra complexity, extra weight decreases accel. times and increases braking distances, worsens fuel mileage
In any case, I would never advise using AWD to substitute for snow tires. OP, I think with snow tires and this raved-about VDIM on the 430, you should have no problems. Check out both, see which you like more. You'll be fine.
12-24-05, 07:30 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Incendiary
mmarshall, very balanced and fair write-up about the merits vs. demerits of AWD. The only thing I'd add is the extra weight of AWD will increase stopping times.
Cons: increases braking distances, .
Cons: increases braking distances, .
The type of rubber on the car and the design of the ABS system, obviously, can also play a big role in braking effectiveness.....many cars with AWD, with the excepton of the obvious performance-oriented ones like the STi and Evo, use all-season or M+S ( Mud and snow ) tires that are designed more for foul weather than short stopping distances on dry pavement.
Perhaps the best setup for short stopping distances is an AWD car like the Porsche 911 with a rear-mounted engine. Not only is the weight fairly evenly balanced with AWD to start with, but upon hard braking, the heavy engine and transmission in the rear causes the center of gravity to shift forward just about to the point whers it is close to the exact center of the car, and all 4 of the 911's big tires and brakes can do what they were designed to do. That is why 911's and even some later-model RWD Corvettes with the transmission in the rear are the general industry benchmarks for short stopping distances.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-24-05 at 07:39 AM.
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12-24-05, 12:16 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by jhenty
from what your saying it sounds like you would be perfectly happy with the gs300awd. the gs430 is great if you want to go fast, but in NYC as far as I know you don't get much of anywhere fast. I will say that AWD is not a must but from the gs's past winter history I'd say you'll be safer with AWD. Both my parents own BMWs with awd (im located in syracuse) and you just cant beat it in the winter, it really helps along with todays advanced stability controls.
Thank you fellow New Yorker for your help. I greatly appreciate it.
I was born in Syracuse. It's a very nice and beautiful city. And it is close from Niagara Falls.
Happy Holidays!
12-24-05, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
First, congragulations on being a courteous, sensible, safe driver. You get 5 stars in my book. You are not a boring driver at all. Your wallet, your insurance policy, your driving record, and maybe even your drivers' license will thank you down the road.
Is AWD important to have where you live? Yes and no. It must be remembered that AWD offers more benefits than just traction on snow. As you point out, it also helps quite a bit in the rain......my AWD Outback has not spun either its front or rear tires once on wet roads ( or on snow ), something my rear-drive Lexus IS300 did quite often, even with its electronic traction aids. AWD also spreads the vehicle's weight distribution out more evenly front-to-rear, spreads the power out as needed and as the center differential's wheel slippage sensors determine, and in some cases can help equalize tire wear among the 4 tires. Each AWD system is different and unique. Subaru, for example, uses 5 different systems depending on the vehicle's engine and transmission. AWD can also, in some cases enhance cornering on dry pavement, although probably not the way you drive.....you really have to push an AWD vehicle in dry corners to see any real benefits.....and on a dry surface, AWD generally inhibits the " drifting " and " powersliding " which is so popular with speed freaks.
Now...it it needed in New York City? NYC, of course, does not have winters as severe as further upstate in NY......Buffalo, Watertown, Rochester, and Syracuse in particular are horrible near Lakes Erie and Ontario....and the roads are torn up and full of deep potholes as well. AWD there in some ways is a must. But NYC can get pretty nasty sometimes.....and you also get heavy rains there from coastal storms. Regular snowstorms are a part of NYC winters, and occasional one-to-two-foot blizzards occur , especially a short distance inland from the coast. So, in my judgement you will not go wrong getting an AWD vehicle in the NYC area.....though of course, it is not as critical as further inland.
I personally think the GS300AWD is a wise investment....though, admittedly, it is not cheap. It is an absolutely superb vehicle in many ways, with impeccable quality and refinement. I did a review on it last March and found it superb but somewhat pricey. About the only real complaints IMO were the low roofline and the little flip-out-box that houses the power mirror controls...that box , when open, can hit your left knee uncomfortably. As to your question of will the GS300 will be safer in foul weather than the GS430, the answer, of course, in general, will be yes.....but the the exact amount of added traction will depend on what kind of tires they stick on at the cars at the factory and how well you maintain the tire pressures.
Which brings us to one of AWD's disadvantages. It is important.....even crucial in some cases....with AWD, to maintain the exact recommended pressures. This is because the recommended pressures are determined by the vehicle's weight distribution, amount of load each tire gets, how many rotations that the front and rear tires make at a given speed at that pressure, and how it affects the center differential with its wheel-slippage sensors. If the pressures in the 4 tires get very far out of recommended ranges, the center differential gets a lot of premature wear and builds up heat continually trying to adjust the torque front-rear (and even side-to-side with some systems like on the Acura SH AWD RL ). AWD also has the disadvantage of being more complex ( Subaru generally has the least complex and most dependable systems) , needing more service and inspections. For example, there are more boots, CV joints, and universal joints to inspect...and 2-3 differentials to change fluids on instead of just one. And in general AWD's added weight and drag will affect the car's gas mileage, on average, about 2 MPG or so and cut a little off acceleration times....although with you that does not matter, as you are not a fast driver. With a flat tire, you also have to follow the recommended procedure in the Owners' Manual religiously to avoid undue wear on the center differential...this sometimes means disabling the AWD and converting it to FWD or RWD by pulling a fuse....a fuse puller is provided.
Also, you don't have to spend the kind of money the GS300AWD runs ( 45-50K ) to get a good AWD car.....there are less-expensive options, even from Lexus, and several superb ones for the money from Subaru. If you want, we can discuss those further.....unless you really got your heart set on a GS300 AWD......and you certainly cannot go wrong with one even for 45-50K.
You are not a boring driver at all. Your wallet, your insurance policy, your driving record, and maybe even your drivers' license will thank you down the road.Is AWD important to have where you live? Yes and no. It must be remembered that AWD offers more benefits than just traction on snow. As you point out, it also helps quite a bit in the rain......my AWD Outback has not spun either its front or rear tires once on wet roads ( or on snow ), something my rear-drive Lexus IS300 did quite often, even with its electronic traction aids. AWD also spreads the vehicle's weight distribution out more evenly front-to-rear, spreads the power out as needed and as the center differential's wheel slippage sensors determine, and in some cases can help equalize tire wear among the 4 tires. Each AWD system is different and unique. Subaru, for example, uses 5 different systems depending on the vehicle's engine and transmission. AWD can also, in some cases enhance cornering on dry pavement, although probably not the way you drive.....you really have to push an AWD vehicle in dry corners to see any real benefits.....and on a dry surface, AWD generally inhibits the " drifting " and " powersliding " which is so popular with speed freaks.
Now...it it needed in New York City? NYC, of course, does not have winters as severe as further upstate in NY......Buffalo, Watertown, Rochester, and Syracuse in particular are horrible near Lakes Erie and Ontario....and the roads are torn up and full of deep potholes as well. AWD there in some ways is a must. But NYC can get pretty nasty sometimes.....and you also get heavy rains there from coastal storms. Regular snowstorms are a part of NYC winters, and occasional one-to-two-foot blizzards occur , especially a short distance inland from the coast. So, in my judgement you will not go wrong getting an AWD vehicle in the NYC area.....though of course, it is not as critical as further inland.
I personally think the GS300AWD is a wise investment....though, admittedly, it is not cheap. It is an absolutely superb vehicle in many ways, with impeccable quality and refinement. I did a review on it last March and found it superb but somewhat pricey. About the only real complaints IMO were the low roofline and the little flip-out-box that houses the power mirror controls...that box , when open, can hit your left knee uncomfortably. As to your question of will the GS300 will be safer in foul weather than the GS430, the answer, of course, in general, will be yes.....but the the exact amount of added traction will depend on what kind of tires they stick on at the cars at the factory and how well you maintain the tire pressures.
Which brings us to one of AWD's disadvantages. It is important.....even crucial in some cases....with AWD, to maintain the exact recommended pressures. This is because the recommended pressures are determined by the vehicle's weight distribution, amount of load each tire gets, how many rotations that the front and rear tires make at a given speed at that pressure, and how it affects the center differential with its wheel-slippage sensors. If the pressures in the 4 tires get very far out of recommended ranges, the center differential gets a lot of premature wear and builds up heat continually trying to adjust the torque front-rear (and even side-to-side with some systems like on the Acura SH AWD RL ). AWD also has the disadvantage of being more complex ( Subaru generally has the least complex and most dependable systems) , needing more service and inspections. For example, there are more boots, CV joints, and universal joints to inspect...and 2-3 differentials to change fluids on instead of just one. And in general AWD's added weight and drag will affect the car's gas mileage, on average, about 2 MPG or so and cut a little off acceleration times....although with you that does not matter, as you are not a fast driver. With a flat tire, you also have to follow the recommended procedure in the Owners' Manual religiously to avoid undue wear on the center differential...this sometimes means disabling the AWD and converting it to FWD or RWD by pulling a fuse....a fuse puller is provided.
Also, you don't have to spend the kind of money the GS300AWD runs ( 45-50K ) to get a good AWD car.....there are less-expensive options, even from Lexus, and several superb ones for the money from Subaru. If you want, we can discuss those further.....unless you really got your heart set on a GS300 AWD......and you certainly cannot go wrong with one even for 45-50K.
My heart has always been with Toyota (Lexus). I always liked 4-door sedans.
Subaru makes excellent AWD cars.
Happy Holidays!
12-24-05, 12:26 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by silversprucesc3
Regarding your question...
Since your driving style indicates that HP is not an issue but safety is, I would opt for a non-LExus AWD and save a ton of money.
The GS430 with its lovely torque and smooth power would be my car of choice and knocks out the GS3 AWD....
IF you MUST have the luxury with AWD then by all means go gs3awd
Since your driving style indicates that HP is not an issue but safety is, I would opt for a non-LExus AWD and save a ton of money.
The GS430 with its lovely torque and smooth power would be my car of choice and knocks out the GS3 AWD....
IF you MUST have the luxury with AWD then by all means go gs3awd
Thank you for your help. I greatly appreciate it!
Both the GS300 AWD and GS430 are excellent cars. I read a thread here that people had difficulty finding a new GS430. Most dealerships had tons of GS300s but not many GS430s.
Happy Holidays!
12-24-05, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveJ
I live in northern Ohio and I have a GS300 AWD. The car's been excellent in the snow, even with the Dunlop run flat tires. I haven't driven it on much ice so I can't comment on that aspect.
I would absolutely recommend AWD for areas with significant snow fall. I used to have a RWD Mercedes E320 and it was horrible in the winter unless I used dedicated snow tires all the way around. If it wasn't for AWD on the GS I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't need the power of the GS430, and I liked the gas mileage of the GS300 AWD.
You might get more response on your question if you post it in the 3rd Generation GS forum.
I would absolutely recommend AWD for areas with significant snow fall. I used to have a RWD Mercedes E320 and it was horrible in the winter unless I used dedicated snow tires all the way around. If it wasn't for AWD on the GS I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't need the power of the GS430, and I liked the gas mileage of the GS300 AWD.
You might get more response on your question if you post it in the 3rd Generation GS forum.
An AWD is a must in the midwest (Ohio where you live, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, etc.).
Happy Holidays!
12-24-05, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Incendiary
mmarshall, very balanced and fair write-up about the merits vs. demerits of AWD. The only thing I'd add is the extra weight of AWD will increase stopping times.
For me, AWD boils down to:
Pros: better ability to accelerate from standstill stops and on hills, "increased grip" when cornering
Cons: extra complexity, extra weight decreases accel. times and increases braking distances, worsens fuel mileage
In any case, I would never advise using AWD to substitute for snow tires. OP, I think with snow tires and this raved-about VDIM on the 430, you should have no problems. Check out both, see which you like more. You'll be fine.
For me, AWD boils down to:
Pros: better ability to accelerate from standstill stops and on hills, "increased grip" when cornering
Cons: extra complexity, extra weight decreases accel. times and increases braking distances, worsens fuel mileage
In any case, I would never advise using AWD to substitute for snow tires. OP, I think with snow tires and this raved-about VDIM on the 430, you should have no problems. Check out both, see which you like more. You'll be fine.
Is that you in the avatar? Quite impressive!!!
I have been working out everyday and I look the exact same!!! 
So if I drive the GS430 with winter tires, are you saying that I should be okay in the snow or rain or slush (as long as I drive carefully)?
Happy Holidays!
12-24-05, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
AWD may or may not increase braking distances...depends on a number of factors. One of the keys to short braking distances is getting each of the four brakes....and tires....to do its equal share of the work...both in braking loads and in keeping a flat tire footprint on the road. That is why FWD cars generally don't do well getting short distances....most of the weight is already up front, and becomes even more so upon the sudden forward shift of the center-of-gravity during hard stops, so the rear brakes and tires in comparison pretty much get a free ride. This is often ( not always ) noted in FWD cars wearing out front brake pads before the rear ones. RWD and AWD cars are already better-balanced front-to-rear because the heavy driveline components run the entire length of the car....so the sudden forward weight transfer during hard braking is less pronounced, all four brakes and tires do more of their equal share of the work stopping.
The type of rubber on the car and the design of the ABS system, obviously, can also play a big role in braking effectiveness.....many cars with AWD, with the excepton of the obvious performance-oriented ones like the STi and Evo, use all-season or M+S ( Mud and snow ) tires that are designed more for foul weather than short stopping distances on dry pavement.
Perhaps the best setup for short stopping distances is an AWD car like the Porsche 911 with a rear-mounted engine. Not only is the weight fairly evenly balanced with AWD to start with, but upon hard braking, the heavy engine and transmission in the rear causes the center of gravity to shift forward just about to the point whers it is close to the exact center of the car, and all 4 of the 911's big tires and brakes can do what they were designed to do. That is why 911's and even some later-model RWD Corvettes with the transmission in the rear are the general industry benchmarks for short stopping distances.
The type of rubber on the car and the design of the ABS system, obviously, can also play a big role in braking effectiveness.....many cars with AWD, with the excepton of the obvious performance-oriented ones like the STi and Evo, use all-season or M+S ( Mud and snow ) tires that are designed more for foul weather than short stopping distances on dry pavement.
Perhaps the best setup for short stopping distances is an AWD car like the Porsche 911 with a rear-mounted engine. Not only is the weight fairly evenly balanced with AWD to start with, but upon hard braking, the heavy engine and transmission in the rear causes the center of gravity to shift forward just about to the point whers it is close to the exact center of the car, and all 4 of the 911's big tires and brakes can do what they were designed to do. That is why 911's and even some later-model RWD Corvettes with the transmission in the rear are the general industry benchmarks for short stopping distances.
I strongly recommend Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi or any top car company to hire mmarshall as a consultant or advisor!!!
12-24-05, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MY GS300
Thank you for your help. I greatly appreciate it!
Is that you in the avatar? Quite impressive!!! I have been working out everyday and I look the exact same!!!
So if I drive the GS430 with winter tires, are you saying that I should be okay in the snow or rain or slush (as long as I drive carefully)?
Happy Holidays!
Is that you in the avatar? Quite impressive!!!
I have been working out everyday and I look the exact same!!! So if I drive the GS430 with winter tires, are you saying that I should be okay in the snow or rain or slush (as long as I drive carefully)?
Happy Holidays!
No, not me in the avatar. I'm bigger, buffer, and blacker.
I am saying you should be fine as long as you goose the pedal, don't make sudden turns or accelerating/braking movements, and you have a good set of winter shoes. If you have a 30-degree incline, though, all bets are off.