So, are BMW cars still holding gnd?
01-03-06, 03:41 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Och
You can be assured, if Honda felt like making a car to compete directly with M3, they would make a far superior automobile.
I sure hope honda feels that way someday.
Dont get me wrong, I had RSX and I really love that motor. But it blew up at 28K miles, and you cant really say that honda engines are peice of junk can you?
01-03-06, 03:43 PM
#17
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I've driven the S2000 a number of times and yeah it has power, but it doesn't have the kick as it should. The power takes awhile to get to the wheels and you only get that power if you really push the car to get there. S2000 is a great car but it's hardly as astonishing as you make it sound.
NSX on the other hand it a great car. My best friend's older brother has had his for a number of years and everytime I get in it, it amazes me. It's fast and powerful and it's a perfect xample of a JDM supercar. It's just a little old but it can still hang with the newer kids on the block.
Honda is not incapable of making powerful cars. They definitely have the knowledge and the resources to do so. But when you say that Honda can easily overtake BMW, that's just an arrogant statement in general.
BMW is not a piece of crap. Have you driven one? My girlfriend has the new 330i and she loves it! I've driven it a number of times and it's pretty peppy and responsive. And so far, she's had no problems whatsoever with it. She owned it for a little over three months. The interior is not cheap and the sound system you say sounds like crap? Haha, you need to clean your ears out. The sound system in the 3 series is not mind blowing but it certainly is not a piece of crap.
The Accord and the TL are both great cars for the money. They both possess a good amount of power and the cars are both built with great detail. But to compare them and say that they poop on BMW isn't exactly in the right ballpark. Sure Honda is catching up, but they aren't riding BMW's heels as you make it seem they are.
And by the way, the M3 is not as problematic as you might want to think. Of course, the first E46 models that were made available had problems but what new car doesn't? BMW just had larger problems is all. But they fixed it and the current E46 M3 is a great and powerful car with very little engine and electrical problems.
I think you need to do a little more research on BMW before you go around and say that Honda poops on them. There's a reason they hold the current highest resale value.
NSX on the other hand it a great car. My best friend's older brother has had his for a number of years and everytime I get in it, it amazes me. It's fast and powerful and it's a perfect xample of a JDM supercar. It's just a little old but it can still hang with the newer kids on the block.
Honda is not incapable of making powerful cars. They definitely have the knowledge and the resources to do so. But when you say that Honda can easily overtake BMW, that's just an arrogant statement in general.
BMW is not a piece of crap. Have you driven one? My girlfriend has the new 330i and she loves it! I've driven it a number of times and it's pretty peppy and responsive. And so far, she's had no problems whatsoever with it. She owned it for a little over three months. The interior is not cheap and the sound system you say sounds like crap? Haha, you need to clean your ears out. The sound system in the 3 series is not mind blowing but it certainly is not a piece of crap.
The Accord and the TL are both great cars for the money. They both possess a good amount of power and the cars are both built with great detail. But to compare them and say that they poop on BMW isn't exactly in the right ballpark. Sure Honda is catching up, but they aren't riding BMW's heels as you make it seem they are.
And by the way, the M3 is not as problematic as you might want to think. Of course, the first E46 models that were made available had problems but what new car doesn't? BMW just had larger problems is all. But they fixed it and the current E46 M3 is a great and powerful car with very little engine and electrical problems.
I think you need to do a little more research on BMW before you go around and say that Honda poops on them. There's a reason they hold the current highest resale value.
01-03-06, 04:30 PM
#20
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//M History:
1986-1991 E30 M3 2.3 liter 4cylinder 195-220hp
1985-1988 M6/M5 3.5 liter straight six 256hp (USA) to 285hp (Euro)
1989-1993 M5 3.535 straight six 311hp
1993-1995 M5 Euro 3.8 straight six 340hp
All very durable engines. Not too shabby considering most engines were OBD 1 and there was no variable cam and valve timing. Most of those cars realize 20hp gains with a chip (the one good thing about OBD 1). Also, many 250hp E30 M3's buzzing around on racetracks. No secret to the forumula, light moving parts, lots of revs, air and fuel. The M5 engines see 380hp easily when stroked to 3.8+ liters.
1986-1991 E30 M3 2.3 liter 4cylinder 195-220hp
1985-1988 M6/M5 3.5 liter straight six 256hp (USA) to 285hp (Euro)
1989-1993 M5 3.535 straight six 311hp
1993-1995 M5 Euro 3.8 straight six 340hp
All very durable engines. Not too shabby considering most engines were OBD 1 and there was no variable cam and valve timing. Most of those cars realize 20hp gains with a chip (the one good thing about OBD 1). Also, many 250hp E30 M3's buzzing around on racetracks. No secret to the forumula, light moving parts, lots of revs, air and fuel. The M5 engines see 380hp easily when stroked to 3.8+ liters.
01-03-06, 05:27 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Och
Well, like you said, most people are not taking their car to the limits, and there are cars out there that may not have the steering feel of a BMW, but they do everything else better (for the money).
For instance, Honda Accord V6 MT - 240 hp, great, spacious interior - replace stock all season tires with something more performance oriented and for $10k less you have a much better car than a 325. For 3k extra you can get a TL which can keep up with 330 in every way besides straight line acceleration, but you will ride in comfort. Want something even more fun? Try g35 or the new IS.
Basically, there is no perfect car, but in my opinion, BMW (3 series in particular) is hands down the worst. Cheap interior, cheap materials, horrible audio system, poor reliability, overhyped handling, and just less bang for the buck.
As far as your SC, you have to keep in mind that it was designed with "Japanese Eldorado" in mind, and also, it was designed for 3.0 motor and the hevy 4.0 option makes it handle even worse. I experience similar thing with my GS430 - it's handling is pretty poor compared to my old GS300 despite increased tire width and better tires. But then again, I didn't buy it for the handling, I bought it for other qualities. If I was looking for a car in the 3 series category, I'd go with either g35c or is350, or even the c350, but the 3 series wouldn't even be on my list.
For instance, Honda Accord V6 MT - 240 hp, great, spacious interior - replace stock all season tires with something more performance oriented and for $10k less you have a much better car than a 325. For 3k extra you can get a TL which can keep up with 330 in every way besides straight line acceleration, but you will ride in comfort. Want something even more fun? Try g35 or the new IS.
Basically, there is no perfect car, but in my opinion, BMW (3 series in particular) is hands down the worst. Cheap interior, cheap materials, horrible audio system, poor reliability, overhyped handling, and just less bang for the buck.
As far as your SC, you have to keep in mind that it was designed with "Japanese Eldorado" in mind, and also, it was designed for 3.0 motor and the hevy 4.0 option makes it handle even worse. I experience similar thing with my GS430 - it's handling is pretty poor compared to my old GS300 despite increased tire width and better tires. But then again, I didn't buy it for the handling, I bought it for other qualities. If I was looking for a car in the 3 series category, I'd go with either g35c or is350, or even the c350, but the 3 series wouldn't even be on my list.
The TL requires the A-Spec package in order to keep up - and even then still suffers from torque steer.
I looked closely at the TL and BMW 330 (and even the Accord) before going with my 550. The 330 was a close second to the 550 and easily above the TL and Accord because
1. With the A-Spec package on the TL you are over $40K and it still didn't "feel" like the 330 (read all of the comparos if you don't understand - or better yet, go drive both of them)
2. The Accord is just that - with the 6-speed they did nothing other than chage the tranny - if they had done something to make the car look better (trim, seats, etc.) maybe then it could be considered - but to be one of the 300,000 people out there driving one purchased this year, no thanks.
3. I actually like the BMW interior -get it in black with the alum trim and it is beautiful - IMHO. Also the switch gear is top notch.
4. The TL interior, while beautiful in picture, loses something in the real world - I don't know what it is but when compared to something like a Lexus ES, you can notice the quality difference.
5. The 330 was so much freggin fun to drive it was not even funny. The same can not be said about the TL or the Accord.
I won't argue about the TL being a great car for the money - but it is for a driver with different priorities. Oh and of note, BMW reliability is still above average.
01-03-06, 07:31 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by doug_999
Yep, rumor has it the 335 will be out this fall - basically the 3L engine with a turbo! I hear that the 330 will no long be offered - no clue if this is true or not.
The test show - the IS350 is like a train - it may not start out the fastest but it just keeps pulling and pulling....
The test show - the IS350 is like a train - it may not start out the fastest but it just keeps pulling and pulling....
01-03-06, 10:01 PM
#24
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Guys lets not be ridiculous the original point of the thread was about a TURBO BMW FROM THE FACTORY, WHICH IS NOT HAPPENING. Be realistic. They wouldnt do this just to compete with lexus' power. They could care less how much faster the lexus is. They make amazing cars period, and i dont know why everyone thinks they are unreliable, they really arnt. If you actually own one or have owned one and had a bad experience I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. I have three BMWs in the fam and drive them daily, no problems with the engine of either, and no problems period with the 3 series.
However I'd still walk into the showroom and buy an IS350 without even driving one before I'd buy the BMW, not that I dont like the bimmer, but the IS is just what fits me.
However I'd still walk into the showroom and buy an IS350 without even driving one before I'd buy the BMW, not that I dont like the bimmer, but the IS is just what fits me.
01-03-06, 11:59 PM
#25
umm.... whatever bimmer does, i don't think it will be "for lexus", they wil be doing it to stay competitive. yes they have good driving cars and handling good, however the hp and accel is just too far off from the competitors, and it will seriously hurt their sales in the long run. they just need to somehow keep up with it. imho they really can't continue to have the top of the line 3 series doing high 5 or low 6.
01-04-06, 01:54 AM
#26
I know BMW was testing an actual E90 with a turbo on it, but I doubt it will replace the 330 outright. If I had to guess, a turbo model could be a possibility, but not as a 335. The 335 indicates a 3.5L engine and not just a 3.3 with a turbo bolted to it. If that were the case I would think they call it a 330iT or someting like that. My hope is that they do upgrade the engine to a 3.5L and call it the 335 but leave it N/A. Then go a head and add a turbo version either has a higher model (But that could get close to the M3), or as a lower model like a 2.5 or 3L turbo. The appeal for the turbo would be the smaller engine and better fuel economy without sacrificing power, and the turner aftermarket. Kind of like the Audi where the turbo model is the smaller engine but has more aftermarket potential.
01-04-06, 01:59 AM
#27
Originally Posted by rominl
umm.... whatever bimmer does, i don't think it will be "for lexus", they wil be doing it to stay competitive. yes they have good driving cars and handling good, however the hp and accel is just too far off from the competitors, and it will seriously hurt their sales in the long run. they just need to somehow keep up with it. imho they really can't continue to have the top of the line 3 series doing high 5 or low 6.
I agree. BMW will do what they need to do to compete and stay on top. Can you imagine though? Who would have thought we would be having a discussion about a 3 series not being competitive enough with a 5.8 second 0-60?
For me, any daily driver type cars that does 0-60 under 6.5 seconds is enough. After that, it all comes down to suttle differences. I very well could still choose the 6.5 car over the 5.0 0-60 car depending on what suttle things appeal to me more.
01-04-06, 05:22 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by doug_999
I think they are stuck - that darn Lexus comes out with a 300+ hp motor and BMW needs to compete. Putting a bigger engine in the 3-series is not really an option because they will lose the incredible balance the car has - and then all of the comparos 
Of course the new M3 will have a V8 so my theory may be bunk
Of course the new M3 will have a V8 so my theory may be bunk
There is also the option, if BMW does find that the M3's V8 is indeed too heavy, of using a smaller block with a turbo or a supercharger. BMW, up to now, has refused to go that route but there is always time to reconsider.
01-04-06, 09:03 AM
#30
why more cylinders mean heavier? i don't see why.
the i6 in the is300 is viritually the same weight as the v8 block in the gs, mainly coz' the i6 is an iron block and the v8 is an aluminum block. i am not saying the i6 in the 330i is the same as the v8 block in the 550i, but i think if designed right, the weight distribution would be close. you don't see worse weight distribution in the m5 than the 550i or even the 530i right? correct me please (didn't did research on bmwusa.com)
the i6 in the is300 is viritually the same weight as the v8 block in the gs, mainly coz' the i6 is an iron block and the v8 is an aluminum block. i am not saying the i6 in the 330i is the same as the v8 block in the 550i, but i think if designed right, the weight distribution would be close. you don't see worse weight distribution in the m5 than the 550i or even the 530i right? correct me please (didn't did research on bmwusa.com)